|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
The Attorney General
1895
   |
Posted - 2014.01.28 14:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
AV can take out tanks, and good AV can do it solo with relative ease.
However the forge needs its charge times reduced to 1.6 levels.
Swarms were always for scrubs, so they can stay that way.
So since AV does what it was designed to do, maybe most of you infantry need to learn your role properly.
Sure lets limit the teams to one tank, but then remove swarms and the PLC and limit teams to one heavy at a time to counter the single tank.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
The Attorney General
1896
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 15:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:I forgot about forge guns yeah the charge up time is crap. My AV 'role' this.
I hear a tank OK, sprint sprint sprint sprint, keep still don't seen me, KEEP STILL, ok, 1 remote, KEEP STILL, 2 remo- WHAT THE HELL, RG sees me and blows me up, ****, ok, where are you tank, there you are sprint sprint sprint sprint sprint sprint sprint sprint sprint sprint sprint sprint, KEEP ****ing STILL, 3 remote, damn it took off and put its hardeners up,10 minutes later, finally click, BOOM, if I get lucky.
Use a LAV to get around. Or even make a Jihad jeep if you need. Those suckers are very effective, provided you don't get seen, or have a bad traffic accident on the way to the murder scene.
That you choose to waste so much time running is a poor reflection on your planning skills.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
The Attorney General
1898
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 16:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Eberk Baldek wrote:The Attorney General wrote:
Swarms were always for scrubs, so they can stay that way.
Ha! They used to be good before CCP nerfed them and buffed tanks. Now they're useless. I want an SP refund!
You specced into a long rang fire and forget weapon that did massive damage. When you specced into it you were also invisible to the vehicles you were fighting beyond 75m, which is about half the distance that most engagements were occurring.
Of course now its worse. It went from massively OP(not just on its stats alone, but the failings of the game engine at that time) to UP.
At the same time, you wanted an easy mode piece of AV, and I think they should always be the weakest AV option, so the changes, although excessive are in the right direction.
Swarms should be for those who are incapable of actually aiming, and with such a low skill floor, they can't be high damage, long range as well.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
The Attorney General
1899
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 17:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Scott Knight wrote:
I just got done playing a game. Two tanks camped by our spawn points, while a third camped at the MCC. This made the game virtually unplayable. To add insult to injury they brought in a 4th tank. With 4 tanks rolling around, no one could spawn long enough to bring in any AV. Any combination of 2 tanks would kill any one AV long before they had a chance.
3+ Tanks make this game highly unplayable.
That is a couple of different issues being manifest at once.
1. Map design is strange. Most maps allow for ridiculous spawn camping on certain sides. Pretty much the only map that doesn't allow it is Fracture Road.
2. With #1 in mind, letting the enemy team get their vehicles established is pretty much a loss. So it becomes important to either have an AT tank right at the start, or to have AV in your squad right out of the gate. These two options are criminally underrepresented at the start of 99% of the matches I see. Sure there might be a rail tank, but he goes racing out for turrets, and gets blown up for his greed, and then the enemy team has ZERO av assets on the field. 3 minutes later they are sewn up in their spawn because they had no plan for dealing with the INEVITABLE tanks and dropships that the enemy called in.
3. Dummies not using the right weapons. You do not shoot swarms at a hardened shield tank. It is not productive, and your best case scenario is to use it to draw them into a trap. I am frequently assaulted by swarms troops attacking my hardened gunloggi in an open field. If they expected to do anything other than die, that is their fault for being stupid, but also the games fault for not explaining how damage profiles work.
4. CCP loves to foster the stomp on them till they quit mentality. It drips throughout this whole game, and it has the exact playerbase it deserves. It is all about the stomp, so you either make yourself one of the horde, or you go solo and try to not get murdered too badly. That applies just as equally to infantry as to tanks, and that stupid HTFU starts to rise out of the mists.
Tanks are a fact of play, and if they are not easy to destroy, then you better have a plan to deal with them at the start of each match. When your squad sounds off their spawns, if you don't have a dedicated AV role, enjoy getting redlined. Might as well just grab a sniper rifle and get your tent setup, save yourself the run.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
The Attorney General
1899
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 17:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tau Lai wrote:
This is false sir.
You can shoot a well properly fitted tank and make tickles to it with you most powerful AV launcher. About 30 shoots to bring it down.
1x Ishukone Assault Forge
3 x Lai Dai Packed AV grenades
You can either set up in ambush, then shoot, throw the nades and kill with a final shot, or ambush by LAV, use the LAV to strip the shields off, administer grenades and kill with a single shot.
On shield tanks it is easier. Use an LAV to impact the vehicle, shoot once with forge and grenade to death. Alternately, you can wait until the hardeners are not on, administer two fluxes and one shot the armor off.
If you shoot swarms at a shield tank, you need a book to help you.
If you shoot swarms at a hardened shield tank, uninstall the game.
If you think you can swarm a tank from max range, and should be able to kill it without getting anywhere near it with a fire and forget launcher, you need to get good scrub.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
The Attorney General
1899
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 17:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:
You forget that tanks are easy mode. You dont have to plan an attack on a group of infantry, you can roll up and shoot everything. Also swarms arent easy mode. We are vulnerable to almost anyone with a gun because all we can shoot at is installations and vehicles.
How much of a threat does a MLT suit pose to a fully complex modules proto suit? Some, but the advantage is massively towards the high SP user.
Any player can put together a MLT fit that is capable of devastating enemy tanks. However they can only make crappy anti infantry tanks.
When I can create a new player, put my SP into corporation management, and still make a perfectly viable dropsuit that will be able to stand and win a face to face fight with any proto dropsuit, then maybe you can call tanks easy mode. Running anything other than a railgun is just asking to get rolled up on and popped, which is good for balance, because it stops high SP tankers from running the table on you.
Tankers get much less return for their SP, and you want to complain.
Any type of fire and forget weapon is easy mode. That is why it exists. For people who cannot compute angles enough to line up shots on moving targets. It does the work for you, and you also want it to be highly effective. Stop being a bad.
If you want a more versatile AV option, there is always the forge, with its high HP to win sidearm fights, direct fire capability, and higher damage output. Unless you don't like having to work with a logi to be really effective.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
The Attorney General
1902
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 17:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:
I cant believe you have the audacity to call people scrubs when you sit in a big frickin vehicle designed to just shoot things with ease. Tanks should not be indesructable and you shouldnt believe that you have some right to be indestructable because you drive a tank. Also not everyone has ishukone forge guns and lai dais at their disposal.
I have my heavy alt, who rocks out infantry only, and eats alive any tank the enemy would dare to put on the field.
If you want to play AV and do well, you put SP into it. The current build is a month old, if you couldn't invest a quarter of your SP since that time into potent AV, then obviously tanks are not that big of a problem for you.
People who focus their SP get benefits. If someone devotes millions of SP to tanks, should they be able to be easily wiped off the map by some no SP starter fit wearing noob? Or should it take some investment, not even remotely equal to the total invested by the tanker mind you, but maybe 1 million SP to get really going? And if you really want to rock vehicles world, then you need to get into the 4 million SP club, which means proto grenades, prof 5 FG, and at least an advanced heavy frame.
You could suggest that tanks are too front loaded with skill bonuses, but those types of arguments seem to escape you. Instead you think that people want immortal tanks, which isn't accurate at all.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
The Attorney General
1902
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 17:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:ROF and Splash needs to return to the Forge... Damage output is fine.
RoF yes, but splash no.
Rooftop forge sniping of infantry should not be a viable role. If you want the AV up top, it should have a trade off versus infantry efficiency.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
The Attorney General
1903
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 04:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Atiim wrote:
I've seen people survive my 1.6 Swarm Launcher with "ease" as well.
No comment.
Roll up in god mode LLAV
Throw three packed AV nades
Shoot one volley of swarms.
The above is how you killed any tank in 1.0-1.6. The only time that specific attack strategy would not work was if the tank had already activated its repairer. Other than that it was a certain kill.
So if any tanks got away from you in 1.6 then that was you failing.
Thanks for providing evidence that you are bad though.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
The Attorney General
1903
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 04:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:
You seem to want an immortal tank. You fail to realise that the people saying av is are generally the people that have been using it for ages. And i don see why i have to skill into a different suit and a different weapon when i have a weapon that (in theory) should be able to kill a tank.
I am the guy out calling for buffs to AV, so yeah, I obviously must want an immortal tank.
I have been playing AV on my heavy since January of last year.
When you say you don't want to spec into another suit, then you can GTFO.
If you want to role AV, you roll with what works, not what used to work.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
|
|
The Attorney General
1903
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 04:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
Atiim wrote:The Attorney General believes that Heavies Sentinels should be the suits that destroy tanks, and not Medium/Light frames. Ironically, I've yet to see him call for nerfs to the Nova Knives and Shotgun, as apparently only heavies should be killing theoretical "heavies" 
You simpleton, don't misrepresent my opinions.
I believe that the heavy suit should be the PRIMARY AV suit. That does not mean that medium frame AV options should not exist, but that they should be supplemental to the heavy suit.
Stop crying because you can't AV.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
The Attorney General
1912
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 13:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Atiim wrote:
And why should the heavy frame be better at AV than light/medium frames? The heavy frame has no more disadvantages than light/medium frames.
If it is the "PRIMARY AV suit" then it will be the only AV suit. Nobody is going to use something when the other option is theoretically 100% better. Having an item that's completely better than the other items designed for the same purpose negates the reason for the other items existing.
I have already explained why I thikn the heavy suit should be the primary AV suit. You have never responded to it, and instead focus on something else every time. But since you think that 1.6 swarms were balanced, you are a crazy person, and wasting efforts to reiterate my opinion is not productive. You can either go and look, or ignore as you would any ways.
Atiim wrote: Echo 1991 wrote:
Why should the heavy be the primary av suit? Why should i have to skill into different suit and different weapon to be allowed to kill a tank?
I've been using the swarm launcher since i had enough sp to get it. It was one of the first things i went into cos tanks were a problem back then. I dont see why i have to change my playstyle because a load of bad tankers cant run from swarms.
This person also brings an interesting point as well.
That persons point is not interesting at all.
Caldari logis deserved to have their suits remain how the were when Uprising launched because that is what they put their SP into.
The flaylock should have never been nerfed because people had invested their SP.
If you follow that logic, then tanks should never be nerfed, because I invested my SP. Thankfully, you two are both wrong, and when tanks get nerfed you won't see me crying about wasted SP.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
The Attorney General
1919
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 11:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tailss Prower wrote:He basicly saying a SL is a worthless weapon because its a lock on which even real life we have missles and rockets that lock on
Its a normal and vaild weapon
No, I am saying that there needs to be some degree of equality between the skill required to do something and the power that that thing has.
I am not saying that the swarm should be useless, even though it currently kind of is. What I am saying is that there is no reason why the swarm should outperform the PLC as a medium frame AV weapon when the PLC is so much more difficult to use.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
|
|
| |
|