DUST Search - When an Immortal dies...

Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:

Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:

The clone is made of completely different atoms than the previous clone. It is different from the clone before it as I am from you. I hate to tell you this but there are no immortal clones. Anywhere. If a copy of your knowledge is placed into a brain made of different atoms to the brain it came from, then it is not you. Its like having two 1gb SD cards. They can hold the same data but they are not the same SD card, even though they contain exactly the same data copied bit for bit.

Each clone is a new person, your existence could not continue as 'you' are your brain and your brain is made of a certain set of atoms. The best you could get is your mind in someone elses head, its just that that someone has your DNA but its not you. Death is Death. No-one lives past it.

Also you would be hungry unless they grew food into your stomach at the same time they grew the clone.

So, therefore, if I was in a car accident and had my body replaced with robotic parts then that is not me?

No, that is me because my mind, hence my identity is me. Not having the original parts of a body does not a new person make.

Note the significance of the word person.

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Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 377	Posted - 2014.01.27 09:33:00 - [1] - Quote When an Immortal 'wakes' up after being blown up, are they hungry? Are the Clones grown in such a way so the mercenaries aren't hungry, thirsty, or fatigued? Yes, Joseph is drinking some adult beverages... Be well.
BAD FURRY SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 338	Posted - 2014.01.27 09:36:00 - [2] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: When an Immortal 'wakes' up after being blown up, are they hungry? Are the Clones grown in such a way so the mercenaries aren't hungry, thirsty, or fatigued? Yes, Joseph is drinking some adult beverages... Be well. human flesh Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Redline Defense Force Seekers of the Unseen 462	Posted - 2014.01.27 09:39:00 - [3] - Quote Do you think about what's actually in those bottles? And they do pant when sprinting so... but other than getting a constant mouth full of shrapnel and dirt and bullets I'm not sure. Freelance Psycho I don't mind heavies with light weapons cause I moonwalk around them in slow motion with my shotty
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1351	Posted - 2014.01.27 10:02:00 - [4] - Quote The clone is made of completely different atoms than the previous clone. It is different from the clone before it as I am from you. I hate to tell you this but there are no immortal clones. Anywhere. If a copy of your knowledge is placed into a brain made of different atoms to the brain it came from, then it is not you. Its like having two 1gb SD cards. They can hold the same data but they are not the same SD card, even though they contain exactly the same data copied bit for bit. Each clone is a new person, your existence could not continue as 'you' are your brain and your brain is made of a certain set of atoms. The best you could get is your mind in someone elses head, its just that that someone has your DNA but its not you. Death is Death. No-one lives past it. Also you would be hungry unless they grew food into your stomach at the same time they grew the clone. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Teilka Darkmist 112	Posted - 2014.01.27 10:13:00 - [5] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The clone is made of completely different atoms than the previous clone. It is different from the clone before it as I am from you. I hate to tell you this but there are no immortal clones. Anywhere. If a copy of your knowledge is placed into a brain made of different atoms to the brain it came from, then it is not you. Its like having two 1gb SD cards. They can hold the same data but they are not the same SD card, even though they contain exactly the same data copied bit for bit. Each clone is a new person, your existence could not continue as 'you' are your brain and your brain is made of a certain set of atoms. The best you could get is your mind in someone elses head, its just that that someone has your DNA but its not you. Death is Death. No-one lives past it. Also you would be hungry unless they grew food into your stomach at the same time they grew the clone. As far as I know, this hasn't been covered anywhere. I would imagine that battlefield clones are pumped full of appetite suppresants and have been kept at peak readiness with intravenous nutrition. If you woke up hungry that would be a distraction which is something you want to minimise in a soldier. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Maitue Mae Vortex State Empire 53	Posted - 2014.01.27 10:17:00 - [6] - Quote Guys, they don't have to be exactly human. Our combat clones most likely are attached to a tube which supplies their blood with the needed nutrients, and pumping it back out. This would thus negate the need for a digestive tract, and the cost of the clone. To Dust, or not to Dust... That is the question.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1351	Posted - 2014.01.27 10:17:00 - [7] - Quote Being hungry would be a good systems check. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 377	Posted - 2014.01.27 10:41:00 - [8] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Each clone is a new person, your existence could not continue as 'you' are your brain and your brain is made of a certain set of atoms. The best you could get is your mind in someone elses head, its just that that someone has your DNA but its not you. Death is Death. No-one lives past it. . I know that. The funniest thing in EVE is when you got a message from your previous, well, 'you' that states "try not to get yourself blown up; it sucks."
BAD FURRY SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 339	Posted - 2014.01.27 10:49:00 - [9] - Quote BAD FURRY wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: When an Immortal 'wakes' up after being blown up, are they hungry? Are the Clones grown in such a way so the mercenaries aren't hungry, thirsty, or fatigued? Yes, Joseph is drinking some adult beverages... Be well. human flesh and baby hearts Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
Jackof All-Trades The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 392	Posted - 2014.01.27 13:15:00 - [10] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The clone is made of completely different atoms than the previous clone. It is different from the clone before it as I am from you. I hate to tell you this but there are no immortal clones. Anywhere. If a copy of your knowledge is placed into a brain made of different atoms to the brain it came from, then it is not you. Its like having two 1gb SD cards. They can hold the same data but they are not the same SD card, even though they contain exactly the same data copied bit for bit. Each clone is a new person, your existence could not continue as 'you' are your brain and your brain is made of a certain set of atoms. The best you could get is your mind in someone elses head, its just that that someone has your DNA but its not you. Death is Death. No-one lives past it. Also you would be hungry unless they grew food into your stomach at the same time they grew the clone. All agreed except for the actual hunger part. There's probably an umbilical connection feeding you. "Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace \ Omni-Specialist / Focus: Gallente

Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1098	Posted - 2014.01.27 13:22:00 - [11] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The clone is made of completely different atoms than the previous clone. It is different from the clone before it as I am from you. I hate to tell you this but there are no immortal clones. Anywhere. If a copy of your knowledge is placed into a brain made of different atoms to the brain it came from, then it is not you. Its like having two 1gb SD cards. They can hold the same data but they are not the same SD card, even though they contain exactly the same data copied bit for bit. Each clone is a new person, your existence could not continue as 'you' are your brain and your brain is made of a certain set of atoms. The best you could get is your mind in someone elses head, its just that that someone has your DNA but its not you. Death is Death. No-one lives past it. Also you would be hungry unless they grew food into your stomach at the same time they grew the clone. So, therefore, if I was in a car accident and had my body replaced with robotic parts then that is not me? No, that is me because my mind, hence my identity is me. Not having the original parts of a body does not a new person make. Note the significance of the word person. Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 778	Posted - 2014.01.27 13:39:00 - [12] - Quote 'Hunger' is a sympathetic and parasynthetic neurological response. Disable a subjects ability to interpret the responses and it will starve to death. In theory, with a supply of neutralists, water and vitamins introduced to a subjects system after cloning they will survive in a 'ready' state for about a day (water being the most important part, its integral to anabolism - building larger molecules from smaller ones, as well as regulating cerebral functions) Afterwards they will start to go faint, loose mobility, go deaf and blind then finally go in a coma. So for short engagements then yes its possible to make a clone solider that doesn't require food or drink, but any real world solider will tell you serious engagements are rarely short. Sure they are more reckless but part of being a successful 'merc' in this structure would mean dying less and saving equipment. I also like ponies "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1354	Posted - 2014.01.27 17:53:00 - [13] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: So, therefore, if I was in a car accident and had my body replaced with robotic parts then that is not me? No, that is me because my mind, hence my identity is me. Not having the original parts of a body does not a new person make. Note the significance of the word person. We are talking about the brain. Minds do not exist outside of brains. Your mind IS your brain, like your finger is the flesh of your finger. If your brain was replaced after the accident then it is not you even if it contained identical data to the brian that esisted before the accident. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2455	Posted - 2014.01.27 18:40:00 - [14] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The clone is made of completely different atoms than the previous clone. It is different from the clone before it as I am from you. I hate to tell you this but there are no immortal clones. Anywhere. If a copy of your knowledge is placed into a brain made of different atoms to the brain it came from, then it is not you. Its like having two 1gb SD cards. They can hold the same data but they are not the same SD card, even though they contain exactly the same data copied bit for bit. Each clone is a new person, your existence could not continue as 'you' are your brain and your brain is made of a certain set of atoms. The best you could get is your mind in someone elses head, its just that that someone has your DNA but its not you. Death is Death. No-one lives past it. Also you would be hungry unless they grew food into your stomach at the same time they grew the clone. Seems like a pretty big design flaw creating hungry bodies unless we have something feeding us from our suits An army marches on its stomach and all that you know Im not drunk, the planet just happens to be especially wobbly today.
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6598	Posted - 2014.01.27 18:43:00 - [15] - Quote Of all things to talk about in Dust. Hunger. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 568	Posted - 2014.01.27 18:50:00 - [16] - Quote We are Immortal Clone Mercenaries. Our Battle clones, which mostly DIE after a few seconds or minutes, or are put back into the vat after combat, is not like our main clone in the merc quarters. Our main body gets hungry, our battle clones don't. At least, that's what I assume. I don't need luck, I have ammo. Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep. CEO of We Who Walk Alone
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 860	Posted - 2014.01.27 18:51:00 - [17] - Quote well if you are referring to us Forsaken Immortals, then we all have our own habits to what we do when we "revive" me personally, i'd like to take a dump but since the NEW EDEN plumbing service hasnt installed any toilets or bathrooms in my room due to CCP management not wanting to spend ISK on installing it for us mercs. YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
Artificer Ghost Learning Coalition College 1126	Posted - 2014.01.27 18:55:00 - [18] - Quote On a side note, I could've sworn I had clicked Feedback/Requests. I was very confused when I saw this thread, and then saw the note that OP is drinking "adult beverages" and it all became clear. Then the fact that no one told him he was in the wrong place confused me. I just found out when I clicked "reply" and saw the big General Discussions label at the top of the page. On-Topic - I'm not actually sure. It's a weird thought, isn't it? I'd imagine that either the clone is changed to remove any need to eat or drink, or there are in-suit supplements. It's likely there's some kind of feeder system in the backpack, although we already know that's where the power supply is. Maybe it holds multiple utilities? shrug As for what Judge said, it didn't really answer your question, it more just told you that you aren't immortal, although I'm FAIRLY certain that clones don't age. :/ Also, you aren't built up of atoms from the last clone. You're built up of ANYTHING that can be biomassed. A dead animal, for example. Doesn't even need to be human, it just needs to have lived at some point and then died. If anything, we're not immortals, we're zombies. ~Art, CEO and DoE at Learning Coalition College, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition Maken Tosch = 1000th Like!
Glitch116 Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 24	Posted - 2014.01.27 18:58:00 - [19] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The clone is made of completely different atoms than the previous clone. It is different from the clone before it as I am from you. I hate to tell you this but there are no immortal clones. Anywhere. If a copy of your knowledge is placed into a brain made of different atoms to the brain it came from, then it is not you. Its like having two 1gb SD cards. They can hold the same data but they are not the same SD card, even though they contain exactly the same data copied bit for bit. Each clone is a new person, your existence could not continue as 'you' are your brain and your brain is made of a certain set of atoms. The best you could get is your mind in someone elses head, its just that that someone has your DNA but its not you. Death is Death. No-one lives past it. Also you would be hungry unless they grew food into your stomach at the same time they grew the clone. So, therefore, if I was in a car accident and had my body replaced with robotic parts then that is not me? No, that is me because my mind, hence my identity is me. Not having the original parts of a body does not a new person make. Note the significance of the word person. this very argument has been played out in the lore for years welcome to New Eden my friends I AM THE KING OF THE BLASTER!!! deal with it
Artificer Ghost Learning Coalition College 1126	Posted - 2014.01.27 19:06:00 - [20] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: We are talking about the brain. Minds do not exist outside of brains. Your mind IS your brain, like your finger is the flesh of your finger. If your brain was replaced after the accident then it is not you even if it contained identical data to the brian that esisted before the accident. Well. I'd like to point out. And please forgive me, because i read this on the internet, and we all know what we DON'T always believe... But I read an article on a scientist that basically said, there is no reason that you have a personality. There's a part where your brain stores memories, and a part where it tells you all of your basic motor functions, and all that stuff, but there's no part of the brain where the brain says "Ok, you're a smartass". The memories you have may influence your behavior, but it's entirely possible and likely that your personality is in a different part of the body all together, or an entirely new part that is unseen by the naked human eye. But again, articles on the internet written by scientists are almost always iffy. I don't have a link or a source, so I couldn't get you guys to tell me if it's legit or not. ~Art, CEO and DoE at Learning Coalition College, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition* Maken Tosch = 1000th Like!

Glitch116 Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 25	Posted - 2014.01.27 19:10:00 - [21] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: On a side note, I could've sworn I had clicked Feedback/Requests. I was very confused when I saw this thread, and then saw the note that OP is drinking "adult beverages" and it all became clear. Then the fact that no one told him he was in the wrong place confused me. I just found out when I clicked "reply" and saw the big General Discussions label at the top of the page. On-Topic - I'm not actually sure. It's a weird thought, isn't it? I'd imagine that either the clone is changed to remove any need to eat or drink, or there are in-suit supplements. It's likely there's some kind of feeder system in the backpack, although we already know that's where the power supply is. Maybe it holds multiple utilities? shrug As for what Judge said, it didn't really answer your question, it more just told you that you aren't immortal, although I'm FAIRLY certain that clones don't age. :/ Also, you aren't built up of atoms from the last clone. You're built up of ANYTHING that can be biomassed. A dead animal, for example. Doesn't even need to be human, it just needs to have lived at some point and then died. If anything, we're not immortals, we're zombies. it is stated in Eve lore that your clone body does age and needs to be feed however if you get to sick or old that is not a problem as you can turn that handy scram pistol around and blow your own head off and wake up in a need body this new body will have been maintained so that is a peek heath and fitness when you wake up in it it also can be much younger then the body you just left this allows for "functional immortality" if your dust merc is in battle long enough then yes it would need to eat and drink just like normal however it doesn't need to do that right after you wake up in however there are reports of people waking up to "odd sensations" such as feeling hungry or thristy if the body they just left was at the time even though their current one does not it can be difficult for your mind to adjust to its new body sometime particularly on the first "death" as to even have the implant that makes a merc installed you need to kill the first body as you can't plug the implant into a body that is not formed with it I AM THE KING OF THE BLASTER!!! deal with it
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6028	Posted - 2014.01.27 19:21:00 - [22] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The clone is made of completely different atoms than the previous clone. It is different from the clone before it as I am from you. I hate to tell you this but there are no immortal clones. Anywhere. If a copy of your knowledge is placed into a brain made of different atoms to the brain it came from, then it is not you. Its like having two 1gb SD cards. They can hold the same data but they are not the same SD card, even though they contain exactly the same data copied bit for bit. Each clone is a new person, your existence could not continue as 'you' are your brain and your brain is made of a certain set of atoms. The best you could get is your mind in someone elses head, its just that that someone has your DNA but its not you. Death is Death. No-one lives past it. Also you would be hungry unless they grew food into your stomach at the same time they grew the clone. Actually, your body replaces all the atoms in it every 7 years. So, by your definition, we are never us, ever? Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
MrShooter01 Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 471	Posted - 2014.01.27 19:26:00 - [23] - Quote Personal headcanon is we all get pretty generic clones while on duty, I believe the backstory mentioned a female character who was put in generic male battlefield clones while working. When you think about it, these clones have a really short life expectancy. Up to 20 minutes if you spend most of it hiding, frequently much less at the front lines. Why not design the clones with that in mind? Blood sugar kept high through IV feed to the moment of deployment, drugged up with all sorts of stimulants and performance enhancers, rapidly grown tissue with no concern for long-term survivability. Hell, just read the flavor text for drop uplinks: they cause excruciating pain and terminal radiation sickness when used, you just don't see the deadly effects over the duration of a half-hour battle. These clones are really disposable. What am I going to do, call Genolution and complain about how my organs are failing after a few hours when I decided to wander off the battlefield to dine at a local town? Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Each clone is a new person, your existence could not continue as 'you' are your brain and your brain is made of a certain set of atoms. The best you could get is your mind in someone elses head, its just that that someone has your DNA but its not you. Death is Death. No-one lives past it. Goes without saying that being too crazy or apathetic to care about the philosophical implications of being cloned is kind of required to maintain a healthy state of mind as a career "immortal", on the ground or in space
Glitch116 Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 25	Posted - 2014.01.27 19:35:00 - [24] - Quote MrShooter01 wrote: Personal headcanon is we all get pretty generic clones while on duty, I believe the backstory mentioned a female character who was put in generic male battlefield clones while working. while it is possible to be placed in a clone body that is not your own this is EXTREMELY bad your mind needs certain connections to be able to function in a body if these are not there then you run a risk serious of "corruption " the same as if you tried to download a computer file to the wrong storage device this can lead to insanity, deformity, lost memories, personality changes, genetic degradation, cellular failure, and out right rejections. It is also SUPER illegal by CONCORD and will result in pretty much perma death I AM THE KING OF THE BLASTER!!! deal with it


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