DUST Search - The assault rifles are balanced. No, really.

Cooper Eudaemon wrote:

Like a lot of people, I believe the new weapons, the Rail Rifle and the Combat Rifle, were OP.
That the Assault Rifle (Plasma Rifle!) and the Scrambler Rifle were UP.

But I've noticed that I'm still dying as quickly and easily against the AR and SR as I do against the RR and CR. So, I decided to take a closer look, and do some light number crunching.

The STD AR does 34 HP of damage at 750 RPM, for a DPS of 425 HP/S
The STD RR does 55 HP of damage at 461.54 RPM, for a DPS of 422.95 HP/S, not counting the charge time
The STD SR does 72 HP of damage at 705.88 RPM, for a DPS of 847.008 HP/S, not counting the semi-automatic fire mode
The STD CR does 32 HP of damage at 1200 RPM, for a DPS of 640, not counting the burst fire mode

Obviously, with different fire modes, it's difficult to compare these weapons. The only way to make a fair comparison of the Plasma, Rail, Scrambler, and Combat Rifles is to look at the Assault variants for each.

The ADV AR does 35.7 HP of damage at 750 RPM, for a DPS of 445.25 HP/S
The ADV Assault RR does 45.04 HP of damage at 600 RPM, for a DPS of 450.4 HP/S
The ADV Assault SR does 37.8 HP of damage at 705.88 RPM, for a DPS of 445.78 HP/S
The ADV Assault CR does 22 HP of damage at 1200 RPM, for a DPS of 440 HP/S

That's right, just 10.4 HP/S difference between the highest and lowest DPS. Differences in damage types aside, if you shoot someone for the same length of time, you'll deal very, very close to the same amount of damage. Or will you?

Accuracy is a squirrely stat. I assume the number indicates a percentage of rounds that will hit at a given (unknown) range. I have no idea if it applies to hip-fire, ADS (Aim Down Sights), or both. What the hell, let's look at it anyway.

The ADV AR hits 56.14% of the time, for a DPS of 249.96 HP/S
The ADV Assault RR hits 58.35% of the time, for a DPS of 262.81 HP/S
The ADV Assault SR hits 57.73% of the time, for a DPS of 257.35 HP/S
The ADV Assault CR hits 59.86% of the time, for a DPS of 263.38 HP/S
The gap widens, to a 13.424 HP/S difference between the highest and lowest DPS.
The difference in accuracy, btw, is 3.72%

So, where are some differences?
The prices.

ADV AR 10,770 ISK
ADV Assault RR 17,625 ISK
ADV Assault SR 17,625 ISK
ADV Assault CR 17,625 ISK

Advantage, Assault (Plasma!) Rifle.

The skills

ADV AR requires Assault Rifle Operation III (15% reduction to kick)
ADV Assault RR requires Rail Rifle Operation IV (20% reduction to kick)
ADV Assault SR requires Scrambler Rifle Operation IV (no recoil, so 20% bonus to cooldown speed)
ADV Assault CR requires Combat Rifle Operation IV (20% reduction to kick)

Advantage, Assault (Plasma!) Rifle. The Assault Combat Rifle description quotes "increased kick," and the Assault Rail Rifle loses "range and stability," so the extra 5% reduction likely means equal recoil to the ADV AR--and at level V, the AR should in theory have less recoil than either the ARR or ACR.

So why is everyone raging about the AR being so weak, and the CR or RR being so strong?

It has to be the ranges.

The ADV AR has an optimum range from 0 to 41 meters
The ADV Assault RR has an optimum range from 0 to 68 meters*
The ADV Assault SR has an optimum range from 0 to 52 meters
The ADV Assault CR has an optimum range from 0 to 52 meters
(stats from https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40886 )
That's a 27 meter difference between the highest and lowest ranges.
*Despite the weapon description implying a shorter range, this is identical to the normal ADV RR.

Or...
Is it the other way around?
Is everything else too similar, except for the range?
It's been described best both here, and here.

So, this is what I propose:
Flatten the ranges, and make the "assault" variant the default for all races, priced the same, requiring the same skill level.
Then, give each race a meaningful variant.
Caldari - Tactical Rail Rifle (lower RPM, lower hip-fire accuracy, longer range, higher alpha [per shot damage])
Amarr - Charge Scrambler Rifle (either semi-auto and higher alpha, or auto and lower alpha, plus charged shot)
Minmatar - Burst Combat Rifle (three or five-round bursts, higher alpha, higher accuracy)
Gallente - Breach Assault Rifle (higher alpha, lower range, higher spread--to be more effective in short range)


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 341	Posted - 2014.01.26 20:03:00 - [1] - Quote Cooper Eudaemon wrote: Like a lot of people, I believe the new weapons, the Rail Rifle and the Combat Rifle, were OP. That the Assault Rifle (Plasma Rifle!) and the Scrambler Rifle were UP. But I've noticed that I'm still dying as quickly and easily against the AR and SR as I do against the RR and CR. So, I decided to take a closer look, and do some light number crunching. The STD AR does 34 HP of damage at 750 RPM, for a DPS of 425 HP/S The STD RR does 55 HP of damage at 461.54 RPM, for a DPS of 422.95 HP/S, not counting the charge time The STD SR does 72 HP of damage at 705.88 RPM, for a DPS of 847.008 HP/S, not counting the semi-automatic fire mode The STD CR does 32 HP of damage at 1200 RPM, for a DPS of 640, not counting the burst fire mode Obviously, with different fire modes, it's difficult to compare these weapons. The only way to make a fair comparison of the Plasma, Rail, Scrambler, and Combat Rifles is to look at the Assault variants for each. The ADV AR does 35.7 HP of damage at 750 RPM, for a DPS of 445.25 HP/S The ADV Assault RR does 45.04 HP of damage at 600 RPM, for a DPS of 450.4 HP/S The ADV Assault SR does 37.8 HP of damage at 705.88 RPM, for a DPS of 445.78 HP/S The ADV Assault CR does 22 HP of damage at 1200 RPM, for a DPS of 440 HP/S That's right, just 10.4 HP/S difference between the highest and lowest DPS. Differences in damage types aside, if you shoot someone for the same length of time, you'll deal very, very close to the same amount of damage. Or will you? Accuracy is a squirrely stat. I assume the number indicates a percentage of rounds that will hit at a given (unknown) range. I have no idea if it applies to hip-fire, ADS (Aim Down Sights), or both. What the hell, let's look at it anyway. The ADV AR hits 56.14% of the time, for a DPS of 249.96 HP/S The ADV Assault RR hits 58.35% of the time, for a DPS of 262.81 HP/S The ADV Assault SR hits 57.73% of the time, for a DPS of 257.35 HP/S The ADV Assault CR hits 59.86% of the time, for a DPS of 263.38 HP/S The gap widens, to a 13.424 HP/S difference between the highest and lowest DPS. The difference in accuracy, btw, is 3.72% So, where are some differences? The prices. ADV AR 10,770 ISK ADV Assault RR 17,625 ISK ADV Assault SR 17,625 ISK ADV Assault CR 17,625 ISK Advantage, Assault (Plasma!) Rifle. The skills ADV AR requires Assault Rifle Operation III (15% reduction to kick) ADV Assault RR requires Rail Rifle Operation IV (20% reduction to kick) ADV Assault SR requires Scrambler Rifle Operation IV (no recoil, so 20% bonus to cooldown speed) ADV Assault CR requires Combat Rifle Operation IV (20% reduction to kick) Advantage, Assault (Plasma!) Rifle. The Assault Combat Rifle description quotes "increased kick," and the Assault Rail Rifle loses "range and stability," so the extra 5% reduction likely means equal recoil to the ADV AR--and at level V, the AR should in theory have less recoil than either the ARR or ACR. So why is everyone raging about the AR being so weak, and the CR or RR being so strong? It has to be the ranges. The ADV AR has an optimum range from 0 to 41 meters The ADV Assault RR has an optimum range from 0 to 68 meters* The ADV Assault SR has an optimum range from 0 to 52 meters The ADV Assault CR has an optimum range from 0 to 52 meters (stats from https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40886 ) That's a 27 meter difference between the highest and lowest ranges. *Despite the weapon description implying a shorter range, this is identical to the normal ADV RR. Or... Is it the other way around? Is everything else too similar, except for the range? It's been described best both here, and here. So, this is what I propose: Flatten the ranges, and make the "assault" variant the default for all races, priced the same, requiring the same skill level. Then, give each race a meaningful variant. Caldari - Tactical Rail Rifle (lower RPM, lower hip-fire accuracy, longer range, higher alpha [per shot damage]) Amarr - Charge Scrambler Rifle (either semi-auto and higher alpha, or auto and lower alpha, plus charged shot) Minmatar - Burst Combat Rifle (three or five-round bursts, higher alpha, higher accuracy) Gallente - Breach Assault Rifle (higher alpha, lower range, higher spread--to be more effective in short range) And AGAIN AGAIN AND AGAIN. Rifles are balanced EACH OTHER. But not with the ENTIRE GAME. It's not balanced with DROPSUITS. NOT WITH OTHER PRIMARY WEAPONS. AND NOT WITH THE ENTIRE WORLD. Sorry got pissed off.