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Llast 326
An Arkhos
1595
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Posted - 2014.01.26 19:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Cause you might just get it.
Higher time to kill = harder to kill a PRO = more Protostomping = more people leaving. The massive armor and shield amps of late were results of the decreased TTK... When TTK improves their armor will be reduced to fit.
In theory yes.
Also I would add that if CQC alpha damage is balanced right it would help in mitigating the proto stomp.
KRRROOOOOOM
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
1600
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Posted - 2014.01.26 23:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Cause you might just get it.
Higher time to kill = harder to kill a PRO = more Protostomping = more people leaving. I actually kind of agree. While running mostly in my 204 HP scout there is nothing i wish for more than quickly killing someone from behind.
Nothing is worst than shooting someone TWICE in the back with a Shotgun and he survives only to turn around and kill me.....
Yes, I know this feeling all to well. But this comes down to the gentle balance that needs to be taken into account. Higher TTK, balanced with CQC alpha damage should actually make this better. If Alpha Damage weapons that require close range (NK,SG, Pistols, FL.. etc) are balanced then a high TTK gives you the time to get that third shot off that should end the engagement. The trick is balancing that factor out. Getting in to an effective range with a short range weapon needs to be effective, the current TTK does not actually allow for those weapons to be as effective as they should be. I've been RRed when using a SG at point blank, this is counter to the way the weapons are designed to work, and TTK damage balance has a hand in it.
If it is balanced carefully it will work, we don't need extremely high or low TTK, we need the correct balance that makes weapons function in the capacities that they are supposed to. I think this is what CCP has been trying to do, and why it is taking so long to implement, they want to get it right and I can't fault them for that. It is an easy thing to change TTK but a complex problem to actually balance.
KRRROOOOOOM
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
1624
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Posted - 2014.01.27 17:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Forgive me for being naive, but how can tanked logis be OP, and scouts be UP in a game where low TTK is an issue? It strikes me as counter intuitive.
Back when TTK was high we had the ridiculous dances of death, or had to make sure targets were more than 10m out of cover to have a chance of killing them.
These days you make a mistake and you're punished with death. Simple.
That is not really a naive question at all.
If we are looking at EHP as the factor for TTK then scouts do benefit from low TTK. They do to an extent, because everybody is dying almost as fast as them. Other factors come into play beyond EHP for TTK though, such as ability to dictate initiating an engagement, hit detection, alpha damage, maneuverability, and intel.
A Scout's survivability is not from EHP as much as from dictating the engagement (stealth), maneuverability, and intel. Scouts are (soon to be fixed it seems) UP because these survival methods were not well established for them. Lower slot count and fitting ability made accessing the abilities to dictate engagements a problem. AA and hit detection counters maneuverability. Intel was an issue with omniscient installations nullifying stealth, this was fixed, but low tac net range inhibited scouts abilities to know what they needed to know. This one was fixable but fitting out a scout to be able to see far enough, either through a scanner or passive scanning costs slots and CPU/PG that as pointed out is an issue. These are mostly what scouts wanted addressed rather than a HP increase.
The changes that CCP has put in to scouts has addressed most of these issues.
I won't go into a long explanation of why Logi to be OP, but they do survive based on EHP, and have a higher slot count, and CPU/PG than any other suit, giving them more tank.
KRRROOOOOOM
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
1626
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Posted - 2014.01.27 20:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Llast 326 wrote:I won't go into a long explanation of why Logi to be OP, but they do survive based on EHP, and have a higher slot count, and CPU/PG than any other suit, giving them more tank. Yes and no, I'll explain: If you use a Logi as it should be used, it's pretty fine to have all those slots. Cal Logi: Should Be Shield Tank, so H: Shield Ext x4 and an Energizer L: CPU upgrade, PG Upgrade, Shield Reg x2 3 PRO Equipment, let's say PRO Hives, PRO Nanite Injector and PRO Rep. But, of course such a slot configuration is easily exploitable, of course, because if you don't equip PRO equipment, or avoid to equip more than 1 equipment you can free a lot of space for armor tanking.
Better explanation than i could have given and far more succinct.
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Another incipit for discussion: longer TTK will make new Cal Scouts OP: I modified Dust fitting tool with new drop suits parameters, and Cal Scout can easily reach 1 sec shield recharge delay, 400+ shields, PRO Weapon, Scanner and cloak. Wouldn't it be OP with a long ttk? (considering the insane strafe it can get
Would it be OP with a long time to kill? It has potential, depends on what is the length of longer though, and how the longer is achieved. If we are looking at the extreme of long TTK, I would say yes. Shields become much more important with longer time to kill, with a shorter time to kill they are less effective. Right now with short TTK we see more armour tanking, see the Cal Logi you described.
With a balanced TTK shields and armour should both be viable.
Stealth, maneuverability, EHP tanking, and intel, should play parts in how TTK balances as they all affect the balance, like I said in a previous post, it is not an easy thing to do.
Love this thread BTW, some really interesting dialogue here.
Wish I had more time to articulate myself properly 
KRRROOOOOOM
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