DUST Search - Swarm Launchers should be removed

Takahiro Kashuken wrote:

DeadlyAztec11 wrote:

And replaced with a laser guided weapon.

The biggest issue with them is that it is hard to balance a weapon that is so easy to operate. To be honest I think laser guided is the way to go. You still fire missiles, but you have to keep aiming at your target or they won't hit. Laser guided would add a certain skill to the weapon and certainly add more risk for the user.

What do you guys think? Should Swarm Launchers simply be buffed or replaced with a more effective yet harder to use weapon?

Edit-

-35m explosive arming distance
-Missiles fly faster than current missiles
-Missiles do impact damage before 35m

On paper it sounds good, thats because 99% of the community cant aim as it is

Also it means if i use cover the missiles should hit the cover before they hit me and not go around cover and still hit me

But we have a few problems

1. Still need a laser distance - This is to stop you scrubs from sitting on a tower all day and covering all the map like pre 1.7
2. Missiles do impact damage before 35m? wtf? so missiles do impact damage without even needing to hit you
3. Can i laser a scrub infantry and hit them?

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DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 3547	Posted - 2014.01.25 17:11:00 - [1] - Quote And replaced with a laser guided weapon. The biggest issue with them is that it is hard to balance a weapon that is so easy to operate. To be honest I think laser guided is the way to go. You still fire missiles, but you have to keep aiming at your target or they won't hit. Laser guided would add a certain skill to the weapon and certainly add more risk for the user. What do you guys think? Should Swarm Launchers simply be buffed or replaced with a more effective yet harder to.use weapon? My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Anarchide, Long Evity And this is why I am the #1 forum warrior
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Redline Defense Force Seekers of the Unseen 449	Posted - 2014.01.25 17:16:00 - [2] - Quote I always keep track of my target anyway so... buff the swarm. It shouldn't take me 4 hits for me to take out a militia LAV with a militia swarm. Don't look him in the eye, WHAT DID I JUST SAY?!!!
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 518	Posted - 2014.01.25 17:16:00 - [3] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: And replaced with a laser guided weapon. The biggest issue with them is that it is hard to balance a weapon that is so easy to operate. To be honest I think laser guided is the way to go. You still fire missiles, but you have to keep aiming at your target or they won't hit. Laser guided would add a certain skill to the weapon and certainly add more risk for the user. What do you guys think? Should Swarm Launchers simply be buffed or replaced with a more effective yet harder to.use weapon? With our rocket fast tanks you could than simply remove them as you would hardly be able tokeep sight on your targets to make the swarms hit. If CCP don't like lock on weapons or feel they are OP they should remove them and give backthe,isk and aurumthat was spent on them
C Saunders Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 473	Posted - 2014.01.25 17:17:00 - [4] - Quote Laser guided would result in anti-infantry weapon, not that I mind but CCP are strange.
Jamie Insano FACTION WARFARE ARMY 2	Posted - 2014.01.25 17:17:00 - [5] - Quote You can't carry enough ammo for a SL to even destroy a tank, which makes them pointless. Toss them out with every other crap weapon. Keep 1 rifle that is better against armor than shields, another better against shields than armor. Throw out all AoE weapons which are useless. Throw out sniper rifles that can't shoot 600m Keep 3 sets of armor. 1 with more shields, 1 with more armor, and 1 down the middle. Put a cap at 1 tank in play for either side, with a cap on total units. 2 LAVs in play with a cap on total units. 1 dropship in play with a cap on total units.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 3548	Posted - 2014.01.25 17:19:00 - [6] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: With our rocket fast tanks you could than simply remove them as you would hardly be able tokeep sight on your targets to make the swarms hit. If CCP don't like lock on weapons or feel they are OP they should remove them and give backthe,isk and aurumthat was spent on them First off they will only refund ISK and Aurum on unused material. Secondly they could make the missiles fly faster. My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Anarchide, Long Evity And this is why I am the #1 forum warrior
Mac Dac Wraith Shadow Guards D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 454	Posted - 2014.01.25 17:20:00 - [7] - Quote replaced because swarms are either OP or UP due to design. "We should take care not to make intellect our god; it has, of course, strong muscles, but no personality" Albert Einste
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 3548	Posted - 2014.01.25 17:20:00 - [8] - Quote C Saunders wrote: Laser guided would result in anti-infantry weapon, not that I mind but CCP are strange. Arming distance - Missiles will not explode for the first 35m. My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Anarchide, Long Evity And this is why I am the #1 forum warrior
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Redline Defense Force Seekers of the Unseen 449	Posted - 2014.01.25 17:25:00 - [9] - Quote The Logic on tanks is off. Tanks aren't SUPPOSED to move as fast as a LAV. Light Attack Vehicle- The scout of vehicles Heavy Attack Vehicle- The heavy of vehicles meaning being able to take a lot of damage but move ridiculously slow And swarms and AV nades should do what its supposed to do, blow stuff up. Especially for a tank that's built to take damage, it should be a team effort, or squad effort at least. Come to think of it, the only thing I soloed was LAVs, cause one AV nade and basic swarm took it out. Don't look him in the eye, WHAT DID I JUST SAY?!!!
Logi Bro 2699	Posted - 2014.01.25 17:26:00 - [10] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: C Saunders wrote: Laser guided would result in anti-infantry weapon, not that I mind but CCP are strange. Arming distance - Missiles will not explode for the first 35m. So it would be useless if the tanker saw you and drove towards you? Tankers should be running AWAY from AV users, they shouldn't have an incentive to do the opposite. Also, it would then become a sniper AI weapon. This is a signature.

Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 400	Posted - 2014.01.25 17:27:00 - [11] - Quote I wouldn't mind there being a rocket launcher variant of the Swarm Launcher that has higher DPS, but fires unguided rockets instead. That way you have a low DPS weapon that is easy to use even against mobile targets and a high-DPS weapon that is only easy to use against static targets. Keep splash damage low enough so it can only operate as a support weapon against infantry.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 3549	Posted - 2014.01.25 17:32:00 - [12] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: So it would be useless if the tanker saw you and drove towards you? Tankers should be running AWAY from AV users, they shouldn't have an incentive to do the opposite. Also, it would then become a sniper AI weapon. They could still do impact damage, just no splash damage. Keeps it from being an explosive shotgun. As for Sniper AV, well that already is the Forge gun so nothing new. My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Anarchide, Long Evity And this is why I am the #1 forum warrior
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 917	Posted - 2014.01.25 17:34:00 - [13] - Quote Swarm launcher missile should be single missile camera guided :p Or we build swarm launchers how they originally did? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED-YF-v7WCw 0.55, Watch how swarms where meant to be.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 3549	Posted - 2014.01.25 17:40:00 - [14] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Swarm launcher missile should be single missile camera guided :p Or we build swarm launchers how they originally did? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED-YF-v7WCw 0.55, Watch how swarms where meant to be. Camera Guided is laser Guided. And RPG type weapon is cool but not really effective against fast moving targets(HAV's). My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Anarchide, Long Evity And this is why I am the #1 forum warrior
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2293	Posted - 2014.01.25 17:47:00 - [15] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: And replaced with a laser guided weapon. The biggest issue with them is that it is hard to balance a weapon that is so easy to operate. To be honest I think laser guided is the way to go. You still fire missiles, but you have to keep aiming at your target or they won't hit. Laser guided would add a certain skill to the weapon and certainly add more risk for the user. What do you guys think? Should Swarm Launchers simply be buffed or replaced with a more effective yet harder to use weapon? Edit- -35m explosive arming distance -Missiles fly faster than current missiles -Missiles do impact damage before 35m On paper it sounds good, thats because 99% of the community cant aim as it is Also it means if i use cover the missiles should hit the cover before they hit me and not go around cover and still hit me But we have a few problems 1. Still need a laser distance - This is to stop you scrubs from sitting on a tower all day and covering all the map like pre 1.7 2. Missiles do impact damage before 35m? wtf? so missiles do impact damage without even needing to hit you 3. Can i laser a scrub infantry and hit them? Intelligence is OP
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 386	Posted - 2014.01.25 17:49:00 - [16] - Quote Laser Guided would probably not work in this game; and would be more useless then swarms would be (to much terrain to hit into). That and if you did that, you'd need it to have an astronomical high amount of damage, b/c it'd be 1 shot and done, along w/ having to have your character stand still while you guide the rocket. If anything swarms will require a buff. They will need their damage upped to around 300 (was 330, now 220), and increase range to around 300-350m (up from current 175, but below the 400/450m it was), and return the mag size to a 4 round mag like it was in the good day of DUST, and increase the reserve to 8 (giving you 12 shots, which is still less then the standard 16 in a FG). If you look at the damage math (and my attempt to do so); look at a bare bone Militia Soma: has 1200 shield, 4000 armor Current proto SL damage (using my skills/stats as base): 6x220= 1320 (per volley be4 skills/mods) x 1.12 = 1478 (w. prof level) x 1.24 = 1833 (w/ 3 complex damage mods) x .2 = 366 ..... 1833-366 = 1467 1st shot against shield So right there, your ONE volley of Proto SL w/ all those mods, just BARELY breaks they shield of a militia no items/skilled tank. If change that to the 300 I proposed it comes out to : 2500 (total damage), but 2000 damage for 1st shot to take out the shield, which then really dents into the armor as it should being a proto weapon. Now you may "flip" in saying that'd be the same damage against the Madrugar, which is true, however they will have hardeners, reps, plate, etc on their tanks that will then lower the damage once into armor. As once the shield is poped the current damage is 2200 be4 hardenders, and what I propose is 3000k. Tankers may feel this to be unbalanced, however I want to remind you your current tanks are only STANDARD tanks. When CCP actually add in the adv/proto tanks they will have more slots; and even I hope some more base hp/cpu/pg. As for when people don't remember in order to take our a Surya, if it was just one person with proto swarms, they'd need to use 6-8 shots assuming each and every rocket hit b/c of the HP/hard/reps ability the Surya had.
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 42	Posted - 2014.01.25 17:59:00 - [17] - Quote AV grenades are just as bloody ridiculous now. I don't care how they do it, AV needs to be buffed.
CaoticFox Axis of Chaos 125	Posted - 2014.01.25 18:13:00 - [18] - Quote Jamie Insano wrote: You can't carry enough ammo for a SL to even destroy a tank, which makes them pointless. Toss them out with every other crap weapon. Keep 1 rifle that is better against armor than shields, another better against shields than armor. Throw out all AoE weapons which are useless. Throw out sniper rifles that can't shoot 600m Keep 3 sets of armor. 1 with more shields, 1 with more armor, and 1 down the middle. Put a cap at 1 tank in play for either side, with a cap on total units. 2 LAVs in play with a cap on total units. 1 dropship in play with a cap on total units. goto Battlefield or CoD... cuz DUST DONT DO DAT DUDE!
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 3549	Posted - 2014.01.25 18:15:00 - [19] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken[/quote wrote: But we have a few problems 1. Still need a laser distance - This is to stop you scrubs from sitting on a tower all day and covering all the map like pre 1.7 2. Missiles do impact damage before 35m? wtf? so missiles do impact damage without even needing to hit you 3. Can i laser a scrub infantry and hit them? Of course Swarms will have a fair range. Yes you can hit infantry. Takahiro Kashuken[/quote wrote: 2. Missiles do impact damage before 35m? wtf? so missiles do impact damage without even needing to hit you This means that missiles won't explode and do any splash damage before 35m but will still do damage if they directly impact a target. My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Anarchide, Long Evity And this is why I am the #1 forum warrior
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2979	Posted - 2014.01.25 19:27:00 - [20] - Quote I think you just suggeated a new weapon. I'm amused that you think there's a problem with the current swarms. Like AV is easy. No.

OverIord Ulath Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.01.25 23:01:00 - [21] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: And replaced with a laser guided weapon. The biggest issue with them is that it is hard to balance a weapon that is so easy to operate. To be honest I think laser guided is the way to go. You still fire missiles, but you have to keep aiming at your target or they won't hit. Laser guided would add a certain skill to the weapon and certainly add more risk for the user. What do you guys think? Should Swarm Launchers simply be buffed or replaced with a more effective yet harder to use weapon? Edit- -35m explosive arming distance -Missiles fly faster than current missiles -Missiles do impact damage before 35m On paper it sounds good, thats because 99% of the community cant aim as it is Also it means if i use cover the missiles should hit the cover before they hit me and not go around cover and still hit me But we have a few problems 1. Still need a laser distance - This is to stop you scrubs from sitting on a tower all day and covering all the map like pre 1.7 2. Missiles do impact damage before 35m? wtf? so missiles do impact damage without even needing to hit you 3. Can i laser a scrub infantry and hit them? A smart swarmer could fire them over your cover, then point at your cover to angle them down towards you. Would make them require skill, close attention and some serious timing to use properly in this way. If CCP was able to do this without messing it up, I'd be more than happy to give it a go. As it is, swarms may as well be removed. What it would require to work: Buffs: Faster missiles (much faster) Longer flight time (for the reason mentioned above, angling over and/or around cover) Larger carry capacity (3-4 more) High direct damage damage (for obvious reasons) Nerfs: Slightly longer wait between volleys (to help prevent constant spamming on infantry) Slightly slower reload (ditto) Swarms hit within 3-4m of the laser designated area instead of directly where it's pointing (cuts down it's AI ability) Make the blast radius only .5m (ditto) Have it's splash damage only ~200 (ditto) Result: Swarms now double as a ranged AI suppressor with very weak AI ability, but are viable against vehicles. Now then.... as for your remarks Snake: 1. You mean like rail tanks have done since rail tanks have been in Dust? See: Line Harvest. See: Redline Rail Tankers 2. Yes 3. Hopefully
Mortedeamor 1285	Posted - 2014.01.25 23:10:00 - [22] - Quote C Saunders wrote: Laser guided would result in anti-infantry weapon, not that I mind but CCP are strange. not if said laser only targeted vehicles and installations..and op this wouldnt really work with current swam settup 1each missile would have to do much more dmg also the range of the laser would have to be much further than 30m..also the clips would have to be larger.. i would want it to be more like if your holding r1 and your laser is on a vehicle or instalations all the missiles start firing 1 by one 1 missile being represented by one round and witha rof almost like a rail when each individual missile has merely a fraction of a second between firing time..almost like a laser guided automatic rpg jihhhaders = av lvl 0 swarm master = av lvl 99+


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