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X7 lion
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
81
   |
Posted - 2014.01.25 11:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
please dont post till i give the all clear
this was typed out in notepad please forgive the spacing
player involvement in lore
NEED PURPOSE!
in my examination of dust alot of its issues dirive from indivudals
not having a role to play, no purpose.
your basic break down of "suit roles"
heavy - tanker defeder or slow roling pointman
assult - dedicated pointman, grunt.
logi - equipment specilist, medic.
scout - flanking, speed, assassination.
comando - who the **** knows.
but these roles aside from logi dont have to much of a use on the battle feild,
there are fundamental uses for the roles dont get me wrong, but why should i run a some thing special to play a role that
hasnt been thought out to much.
ok example of a role that is strong and well tested through fps, logi/medic this class always has a use, to heal and help the team.
badly thought out role example, the scout is marketed as a infultration unit with speed and stealth, sure a scout can be a killing machine for cqc
but whats the point of a stealth unit if hiding from enimies can only go so far (cloak will help with hiding but this isnt the point im making)
if i can sneak past a bunch of enimies, move in and out of a location undetected but to do what exagtly? get a kill or two, hack some thing that
will get hacked back strait away? as a scout i can make my self useful but theres no point to me becuse theres no objective that requires a scout,
i am simply useful when the occasion arrives.
lets keep going with this role analisis.
assults you guys lets face it are the grunt of the bunch its you job to take **** head on and fight it off, you guys dont need a special objective becuse
the game is fundamentaly desgined around shooting people.
the heavy, now you lot are the tankers, take the hits and defend a postion while dishing out massive damage. (you are also not half bad and beeing pointmen
slower moving ofcourse, well unless your being silly but thats not long term viable ;) ) but you guys are so locked down, witch isnt nessasarly a bad thing
but you can still run light weapons in your heavy slot, this makes you a heavy armoured infintryman who with a adv comkat can be equaly or more efficant then
a assult.
the comando, whats the point of you guys, serisly? (there **** atm ok, point made????)
now with all this i say a way to improve on this would to give every role a objective that only that role can accomplish, scouts could have advanced hacking
allowing them to take over special installations in a arera (possible examples that could be implremented to acomadate this
comunications jammer, sheild walls, gate controlls, bridge controlls, elevators)
heavys could have demilition dutys where say there was apart of a turrain that blocked accses to tunnels
(i know there not in the game you im just making a point) a heavy would be allowed to set a special charge that would open the tunnel for infantry use
(point being any other class wouldnt have the knowlage to do it.)
logistics could have the ability to use specilist instalations to commit e-warfare disrupting targiting in a arera and casuing malfuntions with orbital strikes.
now assults you guys basicaly already have your thing but since some one will complain i didnt think one up for you how about kill shots that can jamp a oppents weapon forcing
a reload (& i did say SKILL SHOT)
comando's you guys could be allowed outside to do something.
this could be tides into a specialist set of skills tied into suit skills ie level x of gallente scout allows for kill x to be unlocked, skill x can only be upgraded
if suit skill matchs the level of skill x.
_______________________
issues with gamemode desgine.
although dust 514 has so much going for it, it also suffers from issues in its fundamental desgine, domination being a game mode that is nothing more
then a bad version of skirmish, skirmish being nothing more then tug of war with controll points instead of rope, there is simply no imagination to it.
there needs to be a point to do some thing or spending the isk to play a suit thats fun just isnt worth the return, nither in isk or fun.
as i said before if im running scout i need a point, having every one trying to accoplish the same task dosent work as well as you might think, it simply
is nothing more then making it easyer for two entites to bash there heads against each other. there are people screaming terriced atm but the fact of the
matter is the issues lays in the gameplay of the matchs not the suits.
if ths specialist skills dont take your fancy how about a sabotage mechanic where multiple points in the map can be sabotaged thourgh e-warfare or other such
things(gu..guys... im sayn there needs to be more objectives in a game, not all of them dull cannons)
|
X7 lion
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
81
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 11:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
No isk alternitive for high level plays other then pubs,
im sitting at around 18.6mill sp and im not a mega player in pc i don't have billions of isk to throw at suits, but the only way i can fun myself
is pub GRINDING the mechanics of dust are grind to get isk not PLAY to get isk. this needs to change, rather then some overall to pub games isk
paying mechanics. PvE is possible solution, a warfare style of "dungeon run" that uses component pats to randomly create a map with objectives.
this could place the player in a situation having to learn the level as they play and beat the challenges ahead of them, now the enemies and such
could range from difficulty but not placing the player at a pointless disadvantage while providing a challenge in numbers (PvE as i suggest would
preferably be for 1-6 players) while not creating a gear disadvantage, high tier PvE challenges could have contract rewards so rather then strait isk payout
for the job, the player could make a list of items or whole load outs that are rewarded to the player upon completion of sub task A inside the mission.
use with infantry gameplay / lack of use of the potential for A symmetrical gameplay between players, as it stand all players are there to do the same thing
in different ways, this should change.(i might be repeating my self BUT THIS IS IMPORTANT :3 )
________________________
Disconnect between player and the immersion of the universe and lore.
there's no point to carrying ideals in dust, its ancestor in sheedsheet 2.0 is detrimental to the game because even as apart of a
mega corp you can still get the feeling of whats the point, no goal to reach, pc aint really much of a incentive because its
locked down by big corp and its skirmish iv explained why that's bad already.
(if you have made it this far thanks, heres a cookie)
the disconnect between eve and dust, now i know dust merc are for on the ground but do they have to be? eve is so kool because its in SPAAAAACE!
but dust dosnt share the same appeal, now dont get me wrong i don't wanna be a pilot but come on im a merc in the year (information unknown to user) with all this future tech and the most i get to see of space is looking out the window on the warbarge before being black screened onto a battle feild???
consider removing the loading screen from the warbarge to ground and having mercs deploy from the warbardge in the mcc or in custom purpose dropships, why cant i space jump down to the battle feild. why dose the fight have to remain on the ground now iv been talking with my friends about how station battles would be kool but thinking of it now what would make more sence if a second battle could occur on a war bardge players moving from one to another
trying to bring it down and stop the assault (perfect opportunity for PvE).
(thats all for now thanks for reading, there maybe more, gratz if any of it made scene to you)
ALL CLEAR. |
X7 lion
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
84
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 02:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
(bump) please give this a good read and leave feedback. |
Durza Wolfmord
The Unit 514
1
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 06:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Reply Initiated
I like the ideas. Starting with your very first post:
From my time on Dust with this character and my predecessor, the great 501st Headstrong, I have come to find that Scouts are indeed good for flanking long ways and causing distractions that make hostiles divert their attention.
Assaults have their role as you stated, and Heavies as well. Being an avid Commando user, I am a cross-between Assaults and Heavies. If neccesary, I have the equipment to back up both my Heavy Grandfathers and my Assault grandchildren with either Reps, Scanners, Nanites, etc. I run faster than a Heavy, and I am versatile because I can run a Swarm Launcher( which is not crap), and an Assault Rilfe, or a Rail Rile for Long Range, and a Shotgun for raiding buildings. I am a love-child. Assaults will hit the brunt of the battle before me, but once I get their with 800+ health, I can back them uo, and then Heavies with 1700 health mop up and secure the area. Logi's are right with them unless they are Slayer, then they run with Commandoes from stacking so many Armor Plates.
What you proposed, Heavies carrying Demolitions equipment would add a nice change, but I don't want the Heavy to become like the support classes of so many other video games. What I love about Dust, partially, is the Interchangability. If I want to be a Scout with Remote Explosives, I sure can.For Heavies to carry some Demolition equipment, that would mean giving them an Equipment slot, which I highly suggest not doing just because then Logis are overshadowed. If you did not mean the Demolition is equipment, but rather a type of gun used for blowing open doors, then call it the Forge Gun 2.0 lol and I will be glad. Great idea though, I like it. Role specific Skills would definitely be a different direction for Dust, but then again I still feel like I'd be playing Team Fortress 2 where each character is extremely different. It's weird, but I see myself in each fit. As a Heavy, that's me with a major lack of exercise( sorry Heavy users but I had to. Here's a cookie) and a desire to fire 2000 rounds a minute. I don't want a Heavy to become something so unrecognizable. That's just not objective however, so disregard that. The Scouts being able to hack key things is also cool, but in many matches, people are rocking weapons that easily kill Scouts. Any gun can kill a Scout, and not everyone has the will to spend 2.5 million SP into a Scout just so they can die in 1 second. The taking one for the team thing doesn't work either, because of the KD mentality that is instilled in so many people. I hear it everyday when I play. People lose faith, they don't want to die anymore, and that's when they are running their BEST STUFF. If you force people to be a Scout and die over and over, that Gamemode will die because you are getting ride of the choice aspect of DUST.
In place of that, I would have it that their are many tunnels say leading underneath an area, and Scouts have some enhanced Minimap than other Units which can show the right way. Then, you have the ability to possibly attack an area, but having a Scout direct you, similar to how some people direct tankers towards other tankers, will decrease the odds of you getting flanked, and killing hostiles.
Commandoes don't truly need any change in my opinion, but for 2 High Slots and 2 Low Slots on Proto. I disagree with 3 and 1 because I will have to have that 1 spot be a CPU Upgrade just to fit the Highs. And a Commando being a Self-Sufficient Heavy, I would like to fit my Armor Repairs without needing to have a Compact Nanohive. With what I know of Logi changes, they will be true back-up units, but limited, making incentive for Assaults and Heavies to stick with them, and decrease overall equipment spam I THINK. Please do not take that as fact, this is all speculation. But what you have said is really solid my fellow Minmatar Brother. On to your Eve Dust Disconnect.
I totally agree. While I am in a corp with ties to Eve, I am no where near good enough to fight for PC. And playing on the same maps constantly without any briefing as to why greatly bogs that feeling of massiveness that I would imagine (I don't know) Eve has. This is where I feel Dust should take some massive tips from Titanfall. Disregarding the ties to Call of Duty, you can't ignore the fact that the opening intro for Titan Multiplayer is epic. Ships with your fellow soldiers *Cough* Warbarge *Cough* loading in, and then the ship hyperjumps into the atmosphere of the planet. I don't care what you say, that is Dust. The people in the game then explain that they need to recover fuel, and so they must hold off hostiles while they recharge. Just that short intro, and then the people are off. These types of missions could be Special Contracts I guess, but hell if these were all pubs, there could be any story. So defending Ship charging stations for Eve or something would help bridge the gap.
So yeah, that's my analysis. Going over it: Commandos have a purpose, they are just overshadowed by the more precise roles of the Heavy and Assault. Don't force people to have to have a suit to win a game, it won't make it better. Eve and Dust should connect together with more dynamic loading screens at the Very LEAST.
07, and thanks for the thought-provoking thread, I'm favoriting it. =D And apologies for the spelling mistakes, I don't feel like proofreading at 1 am Eastern Standard Time |
X7 lion
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
91
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 08:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Durza Wolfmord wrote:Reply Initiated
I like the ideas. Starting with your very first post:
From my time on Dust with this character and my predecessor, the great 501st Headstrong, I have come to find that Scouts are indeed good for flanking long ways and causing distractions that make hostiles divert their attention.
Assaults have their role as you stated, and Heavies as well. Being an avid Commando user, I am a cross-between Assaults and Heavies. If neccesary, I have the equipment to back up both my Heavy Grandfathers and my Assault grandchildren with either Reps, Scanners, Nanites, etc. I run faster than a Heavy, and I am versatile because I can run a Swarm Launcher( which is not crap), and an Assault Rilfe, or a Rail Rile for Long Range, and a Shotgun for raiding buildings. I am a love-child. Assaults will hit the brunt of the battle before me, but once I get their with 800+ health, I can back them uo, and then Heavies with 1700 health mop up and secure the area. Logi's are right with them unless they are Slayer, then they run with Commandoes from stacking so many Armor Plates.
What you proposed, Heavies carrying Demolitions equipment would add a nice change, but I don't want the Heavy to become like the support classes of so many other video games. What I love about Dust, partially, is the Interchangability. If I want to be a Scout with Remote Explosives, I sure can.For Heavies to carry some Demolition equipment, that would mean giving them an Equipment slot, which I highly suggest not doing just because then Logis are overshadowed. If you did not mean the Demolition is equipment, but rather a type of gun used for blowing open doors, then call it the Forge Gun 2.0 lol and I will be glad. Great idea though, I like it. Role specific Skills would definitely be a different direction for Dust, but then again I still feel like I'd be playing Team Fortress 2 where each character is extremely different. It's weird, but I see myself in each fit. As a Heavy, that's me with a major lack of exercise( sorry Heavy users but I had to. Here's a cookie) and a desire to fire 2000 rounds a minute. I don't want a Heavy to become something so unrecognizable. That's just not objective however, so disregard that. The Scouts being able to hack key things is also cool, but in many matches, people are rocking weapons that easily kill Scouts. Any gun can kill a Scout, and not everyone has the will to spend 2.5 million SP into a Scout just so they can die in 1 second. The taking one for the team thing doesn't work either, because of the KD mentality that is instilled in so many people. I hear it everyday when I play. People lose faith, they don't want to die anymore, and that's when they are running their BEST STUFF. If you force people to be a Scout and die over and over, that Gamemode will die because you are getting ride of the choice aspect of DUST.
In place of that, I would have it that their are many tunnels say leading underneath an area, and Scouts have some enhanced Minimap than other Units which can show the right way. Then, you have the ability to possibly attack an area, but having a Scout direct you, similar to how some people direct tankers towards other tankers, will decrease the odds of you getting flanked, and killing hostiles.
Commandoes don't truly need any change in my opinion, but for 2 High Slots and 2 Low Slots on Proto. I disagree with 3 and 1 because I will have to have that 1 spot be a CPU Upgrade just to fit the Highs. And a Commando being a Self-Sufficient Heavy, I would like to fit my Armor Repairs without needing to have a Compact Nanohive. With what I know of Logi changes, they will be true back-up units, but limited, making incentive for Assaults and Heavies to stick with them, and decrease overall equipment spam I THINK. Please do not take that as fact, this is all speculation. But what you have said is really solid my fellow Minmatar Brother.
as much as this was a direct suggestion i think you may have missed the msg between the line ;) the idea is to have a purpose other then bash your head against red berry A until dead or killed by red berry B also to create synergy between suit styles, as for your direct analysis of the suggestion i personally think i didnt think it through as much as i would have had the whole synergy thing been my main focus, also the only reason i riffed on commandos is because there no good till proto, there just a **** assault or heavy. (no worries about spelling mistakes im just as bad :D ) |
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