DUST Search - A Rail Rifle Change I can't believe no one has considered.

Baal Omniscient wrote:

Shiruba Ryou wrote:

Why not just make the hipfire crosshairs really tight? With a tight hipfire you can no longer be in CQC to strafe-spray-and pray. It would force RR user to keep at a range far enough to be able to "effectively track your targets". That's the disadvantage rail weapons area supposed to have.

Got this idea while playing with my Breach AR. You know how that thing has a pretty tight hipfire spread? If I'm ******** close to someone, I can't track them well enough to land those reduced RoF shots. So I get close but not 'in my visor' close. Make the Rail Rilfe spread tight as hell so the really accurate rail weapon fires almost exactly where your pointing even in hipfire. Fixes the whole CQC problem which is in my opinion the only one it has. It's the reason good strafing close to a sniper looking at you once your within say 30m will keep him from hitting you long enough to get in closer and kill him.

Rail rifles keep their damage, RoF, charge time, everything they have right now so that their ability to be a mid-long range bully isn't nerved at all. The only thing that will change is their range of engagement ability.

Except that this just makes kb/m rail rifling that much better and makes people who can actually aim in CQC beastmode. The breach AR is still viable in CQC BECAUSE it has such tight hip fire. What made the TAR OP was it's crazy accuracy in hip fire despite being a long range weapon.

Tight hip fire would actually make it better than it is now for everyone except those who are already bad at aiming in CQC. The best recourse would be to make it kick and spray like mad when it isn't in ADS.


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Shiruba Ryou 146	Posted - 2014.01.24 20:05:00 - [1] - Quote Why not just make the hipfire crosshairs really tight? With a tight hipfire you can no longer be in CQC to strafe-spray-and pray. It would force RR user to keep at a range far enough to be able to "effectively track your targets". That's the disadvantage rail weapons area supposed to have. Got this idea while playing with my Breach AR. You know how that thing has a pretty tight hipfire spread? If I'm ******** close to someone, I can't track them well enough to land those reduced RoF shots. So I get close but not 'in my visor' close. Make the Rail Rilfe spread tight as hell so the really accurate rail weapon fires almost exactly where your pointing even in hipfire. Fixes the whole CQC problem which is in my opinion the only one it has. It's the reason good strafing close to a sniper looking at you once your within say 30m will keep him from hitting you long enough to get in closer and kill him. Rail rifles keep their damage, RoF, charge time, everything they have right now so that their ability to be a mid-long range bully isn't nerved at all. The only thing that will change is their range of engagement ability. "Not to worry. The cards say you loved it." `- Ryoutoshi`
Shiruba Ryou 146	Posted - 2014.01.24 20:15:00 - [2] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: hmm will bring this up thanks for the knock on the head these things get forgotten about easily. Thanks for the post IWS. The guys on IRC I've been hanging out with said I should try posting some of the balance ideas I'd been having (while drinking). Decided to try it at least once. Happy to see it be received. "Not to worry. The cards say you loved it." `- Ryoutoshi`
Shiruba Ryou 149	Posted - 2014.01.24 20:21:00 - [3] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: It's one of the most common nerf ideas. I've only ever seen people ask to make it wider. Maybe I missed it. "Not to worry. The cards say you loved it." `- Ryoutoshi`
Shiruba Ryou 151	Posted - 2014.01.24 20:40:00 - [4] - Quote BrownEye1129 wrote: Doesn't sound bad. I was thinking a slight charge up increase. I heard people saying a full second but I think that's a bit much. I would like maybe .10 - .15 added to the charge time along with a slight RoF reduction. I think just giving it a tighter spread would make it even more of a beast at long range which it is already. That's a valid point. But I'd leave the rest of the tweaking to the DEVs. I made my suggestion with just the goal of giving the RR a clear disadvantage in a CQC situation without nerfing it's ability to perform in it's niche. I'm sure additional tweaking can be made by the DEVs after that change to keep their vision in check. "Not to worry. The cards say you loved it." `- Ryoutoshi`
Shiruba Ryou 151	Posted - 2014.01.24 20:43:00 - [5] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: I still think bigger dispersion is better, if you got good with super good hipfire, you could snipe from the hip. Kinda like the snipers in Halo. Have you tried hitting PC players in their strafing grove? They cover so much ground that a bigger dispersion is a blessing. My AR has a decent spread and in PC matches if I lose my cool for a second the opponent will clear out strafe my whole spread. "Not to worry. The cards say you loved it." `- Ryoutoshi`
Shiruba Ryou 172	Posted - 2014.01.25 20:19:00 - [6] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Shiruba Ryou wrote: Why not just make the hipfire crosshairs really tight? With a tight hipfire you can no longer be in CQC to strafe-spray-and pray. It would force RR user to keep at a range far enough to be able to "effectively track your targets". That's the disadvantage rail weapons area supposed to have. Got this idea while playing with my Breach AR. You know how that thing has a pretty tight hipfire spread? If I'm ******** close to someone, I can't track them well enough to land those reduced RoF shots. So I get close but not 'in my visor' close. Make the Rail Rilfe spread tight as hell so the really accurate rail weapon fires almost exactly where your pointing even in hipfire. Fixes the whole CQC problem which is in my opinion the only one it has. It's the reason good strafing close to a sniper looking at you once your within say 30m will keep him from hitting you long enough to get in closer and kill him. Rail rifles keep their damage, RoF, charge time, everything they have right now so that their ability to be a mid-long range bully isn't nerved at all. The only thing that will change is their range of engagement ability. Except that this just makes kb/m rail rifling that much better and makes people who can actually aim in CQC beastmode. The breach AR is still viable in CQC BECAUSE it has such tight hip fire. What made the TAR OP was it's crazy accuracy in hip fire despite being a long range weapon. Tight hip fire would actually make it better than it is now for everyone except those who are already bad at aiming in CQC. The best recourse would be to make it kick and spray like mad when it isn't in ADS. Tight. Yes. We're talking near Laser rifle accurate in hipfire. The breach works well in CQQ because it has a decently tight spread that gets a nice sise while strafing + the increased spread of continuous fire. The resulting spread in perfect for that distance and allows a good player to really get most of the bullets on target. A poor shooter would be better off with the larger spread of the Standard AR. Now lets look at the high damage high dispersion of the current TAC AR. We can agree that it's dispersion is quite large. But It still can perform alright in a CQC setting. Why? Because its so large. If you get close enough, that spread can be made to cover the entirety of the opponents body. No amount of strafing will get you out of that spread. And because it's Blaster by nature, I've only ever needed 3-4 bullets to hit someone before they die. Unless your going to make the hipfire spread so large that it is wider than most of your visibility area then what it will do is simply make mid range hipfire worst, but become better for CQC the closer you get. Wider hipfire spread in a CQC strafe fight gives you the advantage. And most competitive mercenaries that pay attention in their individual skirmishes understand this and I hope this post reaches them as well. I'm glad for the support of gotten so far as well. For more examples I encourage others to look at, look at the laser rifle. That pinpoint accurate hipfire is great for mid-long (50-100+) non-ADS firing. So it makes it good at fast maneuvering long range fire. Funny, isn't that what rail users are supposed to be in New Eden? Short to mid range (0-49) is where you'll start seeing issues. Because someone decent can move easily enough to evade your low RoF shots and either wait till your clip runs out or just kill you. A laser rifle is a continuous stream so it has a little breathing room here. But not the Rail Rifle. It's low RoF coupled with a non-existent spread would effectively render in near useless in Short- near mid range against an adequately agile target. Hopefully this further explanation of my goal helps others to see my point and support this. I welcome any other conflicting opinions as well. The theory crafting of scenarios can only help any CCP or CPM that look at this decide how to finally tweak the gun. "Not to worry. The cards say you loved it." `- Ryoutoshi`
Shiruba Ryou 172	Posted - 2014.01.25 21:02:00 - [7] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Make hipfire 500% wider, rate of fire lower, more damage per bullet, and 2x more charge time, and 1.5x more scoped zoom. so that overall the dps stays the same, but it is ineffective in cqc. The assault rail rifle is good for everything except the damage per bullet needs a slight reduction (emphasis on slight). Nerf it into the ground why don't you geez. EDIT: Sorry that's not even the point. Did you even bother to read the explanations I gave to why that would be a bad idea? "Not to worry. The cards say you loved it." `- Ryoutoshi`