DUST Search - The heart of the disparity between the Minmitar Scout and Gallente Scout

Reav Hannari wrote:

Ghost Kaisar wrote:

Hm. I don't see the point in going passive scan on a Min Scout. If you want passive scan, just go Gallente, as they are GODS at this...

My theory for crafting fits is not to "min/max" or supercharge the inherent bonuses. I tend to use modules to correct any weaknesses in the base suit or add additional capabilities. The new Minmatar Scout has the best speed, a built-in complex codebreaker and the equivalent of triple complex damage modules for Nova Knives. I don't need to provide any of those things but I will train any skill that passively improves them.

A min/max fit would choose to add another codebreaker for nearly instantaneous hacks, or stack complex kinetic catalyzers to run like the wind and maybe even add complex sidearm damage modules to give the knives unholy damage capability. That works for those that don't mind the weaknesses.

I look at my suit and see what is keeping me from leveraging what it can already do. I won't be carrying active scanners and I see that I'm lacking the ability to passively detect my future victims at a decent range. The 20 meters just isn't good enough so I'll consider a range enhancer. Will I be hunting scouts? Probably not so I won't add precision enhancement. Maybe I'll make a specialized fit to handle that though. I'm concerned that I may be scanned when my cloak is down. When we drop spawn cloak we make a sound and I'm betting the cloak cortex will do the same. I don't want my victims to hear that so I'll drop cloak and use profile stealth for the final part of my attack. So, I'll look at the profile charts and see if a profile dampener will help. Finally, fast speed doesn't do much good if the stamina isn't there to back it up. I may add a green bottle to correct that.

I haven't decided on my 1.8 scout fit yet. Then again, I'm never done tinkering but this shows my process for any suits that I make.


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Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2252	Posted - 2014.01.24 06:42:00 - [1] - Quote You are forgetting some major differences between the two. It isn't all in the stats you have listed. SORRY IN ADVANCE FOR THE MONSTER POST. TL;DR AT BOTTOM Okay first off, the Minmatar Scout will actually be better at hit and run (which is what this fit is made for right?). Why? Because it is shield tanking. With 343 shields, the Minmatar Scout will have 80% of it's eHP in shields. Combine that with it's 40 hp/s shield recharge, and you can fully regen 80% of your eHP in about 8.6 seconds. With 160 shields, the Gallente scout will only have 40% of it's eHP in shields. It also takes 5.3 seconds to refill it's shields (and this is after it's 6.4 second shield depleted time, which won't happen to a min scout). So, lets do the math on how quickly you regen eHP (The most important aspect after speed on a hit and run build). Both suits take 300 damage. This is roughly 3/4ths of your eHP. Lets see how long it takes. Min scout takes 300 damage. His shields are unbroken. After 4 seconds, he starts to rep at 40 hp/s. After 7.5 seconds. He is back to full health. Total time: 11.5 seconds. Gal scout takes 300 damage. His shields are broken, and he takes 140 armor damage as well. Armor regens immediately, and it takes 46 seconds to fully rep his armor. Shields will take 6.4s to start regen, and another 5.3 seconds to fully heal. Total Time: 46 seconds, but you are back up to 311 eHP after 11.7 seconds. This is 75% of your eHP. So, the Minmatar scout will fully rep in 11.5s, whereas the Gal Scout will only be 75% of the way done in that time. Heck, the minmatar scout could actually take the same damage 2 more times and still be fully repped before the Gal scout finishes. This is the advantage of shield tanking. While the Gal Scout can Deal more damage and scan farther, he lacks the ability to quickly regen and get back into the fight. He will spend most of his time repping in between battles, and hoping that someone doesn't catch him while wounded. This in turn gives the Minmatar Scout greater mobility on the Battlefield. He is more free to move around and "scout" because of how quickly he can regen. The Gal scout will be forced to take cover and wait for his reps to finish, or carry equipment to regen his armor. On a lesser note, I want to say that you CAN run a cloak on a Minmatar Scout. Get rid of that dampener and put on a PG upgrade. With the cloak equipped, you actually LOWER your profile by 25% (The same amount as that dampener I might add). So just run the Cloak instead! You get the benefits of invisibility AND the profile (so long as it is active). You passive profile is also at 31.5, so you only have to worry about Proto Scans and Adv Gal Scans while uncloaked. While you are cloaked, you will dodge all scanners except for Proto Gallente Scans. If scanning becomes a problem, just dump a Kincat. 9.35m/s is still really dang fast. A Gallente Scout will be much better off making itself an invisible, Range Amp Scanner that can't be detected AT ALL. (With one Complex Dampener, you will never be scanned while cloaked. EVER.) Also, that Passive scan on my fit will have a 90m range and scan at 31 dB (Better than ADV scanner). That literally like someone doing a 360 ADV scan on top of you PERMANENTLY and it won't tell anyone that you are scanning them. It would be a waste of a suit not to do this. Oh, and you can still fit 443 eHP on this build. Not like you will need it anyways. If someone can see you, you're doing it wrong. I hope they give WP for passive scans now.... TL;DR for the Lazy: Gal Scouts have terrible regen abilities, even with 3hp/s armor rep. They will take almost 46s to rep from 300 damage, where the min scout will only take 11 seconds. Minmatar Scouts CAN Fit a Proto Cloak, they just have to use a PG enhancer. Due to Cloaks providing Complex Dampener benefits, there is no reason to run a Complex Dampener instead of a PG+Cloak. Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2252	Posted - 2014.01.24 06:44:00 - [2] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Please do not make underpowered arguments by posting horrible fits. THANK YOU. I wish I had seen this earlier. You should read my monster post I just made.... Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2252	Posted - 2014.01.24 06:54:00 - [3] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Scout is a secondary role for me but I fit differently than yours. Combat Rifle, Nova Knives and Remote Explosives with a focus on profile dampening and enhanced passive range. Only after I have everything else fitted do I worry about shield extenders. It's not like your defenses are going to make that much of a difference. I don't have any biotic modules installed but I did get the passive skill trained up. Maybe that'll change once the new scout suits show up. I'm currently finishing off Dropsuit Electronics and Dropsuit Engineering to maximize my ability to fit the cloak. I can see the many situations were I would have been able to get into the proper position for an attack or escaped to try again if I had a cloak. Hm. I don't see the point in going passive scan on a Min Scout. If you want passive scan, just go Gallente, as they are GODS at this (My fit I posted earlier has 90m range, and scans at 31 dB. Dang.) I have a fit that uses a range amp, but that's only because of PG requirements (on my ADV scout. No reason to run PG, because he has enough room for Adv Cloak. I just needed a module with less than 2 PG. Range amp it was) I will be running a Min Scout with focus on Speed, Stealth, and CQC. Quick Fit Description: 270 shields, 87 armor. 210 Melee. Six Kin ACR, Ishnoks, M1 Locus. Sprints at 10.38. Runs a Proto Cloak. Ishnoks are the ultimate assassination tool, but that 210 melee will really come in handy. By firing an ACR point blank for 1s, and then meleeing afterwards, I can deal 770 damage. That is some CQC power right there. Unless you are really tanking a med frame, that sucker is going down. Another punch will bring that up to almost 1k. GL HF. Proto Cloak has insane recharge (2 seconds of cloak per one second wait), and 80 second cloak time. I can cloak for 46 seconds and cover almost 480m in that time. Travelling between objectives will be a breeze, no more worrying about being seen in transition. I can't fit remotes, but since this is a hit and run fit, I don't expect to need them. If I need to take on someone point blank, it will be ACR+Melee with the element of surprise. Should work. Thoughts? Opinions? Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2260	Posted - 2014.01.24 16:58:00 - [4] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Hm. I don't see the point in going passive scan on a Min Scout. If you want passive scan, just go Gallente, as they are GODS at this... My theory for crafting fits is not to "min/max" or supercharge the inherent bonuses. I tend to use modules to correct any weaknesses in the base suit or add additional capabilities. The new Minmatar Scout has the best speed, a built-in complex codebreaker and the equivalent of triple complex damage modules for Nova Knives. I don't need to provide any of those things but I will train any skill that passively improves them. A min/max fit would choose to add another codebreaker for nearly instantaneous hacks, or stack complex kinetic catalyzers to run like the wind and maybe even add complex sidearm damage modules to give the knives unholy damage capability. That works for those that don't mind the weaknesses. I look at my suit and see what is keeping me from leveraging what it can already do. I won't be carrying active scanners and I see that I'm lacking the ability to passively detect my future victims at a decent range. The 20 meters just isn't good enough so I'll consider a range enhancer. Will I be hunting scouts? Probably not so I won't add precision enhancement. Maybe I'll make a specialized fit to handle that though. I'm concerned that I may be scanned when my cloak is down. When we drop spawn cloak we make a sound and I'm betting the cloak cortex will do the same. I don't want my victims to hear that so I'll drop cloak and use profile stealth for the final part of my attack. So, I'll look at the profile charts and see if a profile dampener will help. Finally, fast speed doesn't do much good if the stamina isn't there to back it up. I may add a green bottle to correct that. I haven't decided on my 1.8 scout fit yet. Then again, I'm never done tinkering but this shows my process for any suits that I make. If you max out Range as a skill you get 30m scan radius. Since you will only be using CQC weapons, I don't see the point in wasting a low slot for a range bonus that will only push it out another 10m. I would rather use that low for extra speed, stamina, or shield regulators. Just how I play though. My tiny Scan radus is fine, because I only use it to see through a wall and stab people as they turn a corner. Everything else I just use good situational awareness and positioning to avoid accidental detection. That cloak will make this 10x easier as well. As for a profile chart? Here, take this. Scout's Registry can be a great place you know And as for stamina: IMO, the minmatar scout is better as a burst sprinter. 10.38m/s is really dang fast, and your recharge is only 6 seconds for a full tank. You regen around 3.6s of sprint per one second walk. Great for burst sprinting. If you like to jump around though, it will be much better to go for a green and red, as 9.35 is still really fast. These are all my takes on this though. I feel that I should work with the weaknesses and try to min-max the suits capabilities, so that I can take advantage of what it brings to the table. Patching up weak spots is great, but I prefer to not do that at the expense of it's strengths. Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.