|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2569
   |
Posted - 2014.01.23 18:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
This thread here in the feedback section is calling for Corp Battles to return, but I want to go as far as to say that they should replace Planetary Conquest until a new system is in place (PC 2.0).
Renegade Alliance controls Molden Heath much in a way that Eon did months ago. As you can see in the link 639 members control a staggering amount of ISK generation (see this link on Dust Charts for details). On a side note I will personally pay someone 40 million ISK to go on Dustboard to get a member list of that alliance and create a spreadsheet with activity levels of the players. You can do this by creating an alt and adding those 639 members to your contact list and then looking at the monthly leaderboards. My point there is that in reality you are more than likely talking about less than 200 players actively participating in their PC operations. If we can find those details and show how much ISK is being generated per day per active player I think people would lose their minds.
This is important because I'm not sure people understand the implications to the economy. CCP removed the BPOs from the game because we are told it hurts the economy. They make you grind away in FW without an ISK reward while waiting for a player market to be released. Players that actually fight in pubs are walking away with bread crumbs of profits as opposed to those that hide in the red line not risking losses.
I want to point out that I respect these guys as players, how could you not? They are amazing at Dust. And I don't want to leave out guys like Fatal Absolution that are taking it to them on a small scale. But this about the health of Dust, this is about more people getting involved in the competitive game mode that we have for Dust.
The mechanics of PC as they stand allow for less than 200 players to put their throat on a game mode that generates obscene amounts of ISK. I'm not going to go into clone packs and the likelihood of flipping districts with clone packs. I'm not going to go into the 24 and 48 hour timers or weird time zones.
The bottom line is that once this tipping point is reached most people give up. There are very few people willing to take that monster on due to the current mechanics. I understand that there are other things that CCP is working on but the situation in PC has been bad for some time. It's time to pull the game mode.
I'd say that it's as bad of a situation from a economic standpoint if we released Proto BPOs that are active as long as you reside among the top 100 on the leaderboard.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2571
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
JL3Eleven wrote:Renegade Alliance only holds that much land because people would rather QQ than fight. Don't blame RA, blame yourselves for not fighting to take the land.
I'm not blaming them.
If it was McDonalds INC alliance I'd be having the same discussion. It's about the mechanics. It's actually being discussed at length in the War Room and in the Feedback section of the forums.
There is just such a small amount of the playerbase that understands PC and what is going on that I think some effort needs to be made to make that clear.
It's game breaking and has been for quite some time.
There are 100s of players in Dust who will not have to EVER worry about ISK. EVER
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2571
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
I actually respect what Renegade has been able to do and what Eon was able to do before it.
But I want to be clear that Renegade WOULD NOT have been able to do it if Eon hadn't gone inactive.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2571
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:JL3Eleven wrote:Renegade Alliance only holds that much land because people would rather QQ than fight. Don't blame RA, blame yourselves for not fighting to take the land. Once the lag is Fixed and along with all the other BS surrounding PC i'll gladly try. Till then i'll stay in peace and not waste my time...
Fatal Absolution has been beating AE and Nyan San quite a bit, but if they unlocked their districts they'd lose them all within a week and their corp would likely implode like many other elite corps have before them.
The mechanics are broken and they have been for some time.
It should take enough players to field 20 or 30 teams to hold 100+ districts.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2573
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
JL3Eleven wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I actually respect what Renegade has been able to do and what Eon was able to do before it.
But I want to be clear that Renegade WOULD NOT have been able to do it if Eon hadn't gone inactive. Don't worry its a repeating cycle. Once you are at the top their is only one place to go.
But in the meantime many of the players that decided to corp hop on the bandwagon will never have to worry about ISK again.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2578
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
JL3Eleven wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:You are dead-on correct, Thor.
MH is being farmed with no risk and PC mechanics need to be looked at and the issue addressed.
I am, frankly, shocked that it has gone on this long. The only ones farming without any risk would be the corps that lock districts. Do people in EvE cry about someone else having more ISK?
200 people couldn't control 50% of null sec. There is a system in Eve with a war going on that has had 4000 ships in system.
Different animal. If there were mechanics similar in Eve that allowed so few to control they'd be burning down Jita again.
But there are still players shooting at the MCC in Dust. It's a different animal altogether.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2578
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Atiim wrote:40mil?
Challenge Accepted.
Okay then you are the ONLY one I'm going to pay.
Let's let that be known. If you decide to change your mind please let me know and I'll offer it up to someone else.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2579
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:You are dead-on correct, Thor.
MH is being farmed with no risk and PC mechanics need to be looked at and the issue addressed.
I am, frankly, shocked that it has gone on this long.
It's not that it's no risk. They dominated to get where they are, but they did so during a time when very few were active in PC after Eon stomped everyone's ass.
If not for STB getting back into PC and obtaining a bunch of districts I think it would still be dead.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2579
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kira Lannister wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I actually respect what Renegade has been able to do and what Eon was able to do before it.
But I want to be clear that Renegade WOULD NOT have been able to do it if Eon hadn't gone inactive. AE destroyed team players. We cut the head off of the snake and the alliance known as eon crumbled.
After the FEC wore them down and multiple Eon corps backed out of PC. There was 10s of billions of ISK spent by a combination of random small corps and a mix of several larger corps.
Do you honestly believe that you could have taken over a 100 districts from Eon if they would have been active? The stupid mechanics of PC burnt them out and they quit.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2581
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Atiim wrote:40mil?
Challenge Accepted. Okay then you are the ONLY one I'm going to pay. Let's let that be known. If you decide to change your mind please let me know and I'll offer it up to someone else. Expect me to finish no later than Saturday Night. (CST - USA) Should I make a Google Doc?
That would be great
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
|
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2581
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
SteelDark Knight wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:
After the FEC wore them down and multiple Eon corps backed out of PC. There was 10s of billions of ISK spent by a combination of random small corps and a mix of several people.
Working as intended? Also, might I ask - why is this not possible today?
Good question. I suppose the stupid mechanics and the cost involved doesn't interest anyone.
Similar to the scenario that happened after Eon sold all over their districts off. There was a little bit of random fighting here and there that was usually filled with ringers from you guys, the leftovers of Eon, or Outer Heaven.
Look man, I'm really honest to God not hating on you guys. That's not what this is about.
I'm not sure if you are able to comprehend that and I'm not sure if I would if the roles were reversed, but this is not coming from malicious intent.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2581
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
low genius wrote:JL3Eleven wrote:Renegade Alliance only holds that much land because people would rather QQ than fight. Don't blame RA, blame yourselves for not fighting to take the land. never a truer word spoken. the op want ccp to fight his battles for him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ICfpjoevP8
Not at all man.
The mechanics being changed would lead to more fun in the end for you guys as well. Hell Ariana has a thread going about it.
It's just that I don't think CCP has any intention on changing it for quite some time. Shining some light on the realities of it might actually get the average player to understand what's really happening.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2583
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 20:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kira Lannister wrote:To be honest LOI was busy finishing off RoFL.
When we finally went to war with LOI vs EoN.
Hellstorm and Imperfects fused into Ancient Exiles.
Once teamplayers lost the highground and their forge gun spam, they were destroyed.
I can't be more honest about it.
I was there. You guys all bounced from Hellstorm and left us holding the bag within three days of that war starting.
Eon went on unchecked for a few months. You couldn't hold a district while Eon was active. I remember Cubs swearing he wouldn't allow you guys to hold land.
If not for the FEC war on Eon you guys would be in a similar spot that Fatal Absolution is in now.
THAT'S the truth.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2584
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 20:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
low genius wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:low genius wrote:JL3Eleven wrote:Renegade Alliance only holds that much land because people would rather QQ than fight. Don't blame RA, blame yourselves for not fighting to take the land. never a truer word spoken. the op want ccp to fight his battles for him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ICfpjoevP8 Not at all man. The mechanics being changed would lead to more fun in the end for you guys as well. Hell Ariana has a thread going about it. It's just that I don't think CCP has any intention on changing it for quite some time. Shining some light on the realities of it might actually get the average player to understand what's really happening. you should watch the eve vegas dust presentation. they've been dead on target with their timeline. pc 2.0 will come sometime later this year.
The reality is that unless a Dust wide effort to overwhelm your timers for a week or two at the cost of 10s of billions of ISK then you'll go unchecked until new mechanics change the 24 and 48 hour timer crap.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2587
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 21:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kira Lannister wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Kira Lannister wrote:To be honest LOI was busy finishing off RoFL.
When we finally went to war with LOI vs EoN.
Hellstorm and Imperfects fused into Ancient Exiles.
Once teamplayers lost the highground and their forge gun spam, they were destroyed.
I can't be more honest about it. I was there. You guys all bounced from Hellstorm and left us holding the bag within three days of that war starting. Eon went on unchecked for a few months. You couldn't hold a district while Eon was active. I remember Cubs swearing he wouldn't allow you guys to hold land. If not for the FEC war on Eon you guys would be in a similar spot that Fatal Absolution is in now. THAT'S the truth. Our team tactics in Hellstorm was unprepared for roof top control, all our slayers got their pilot license and knocked them down. Their talent couldn't match Hellstorms, Let us not even mention Ancient Exiles. Team Players relied on the roof top too much. Hellstorm and EoN was in a silent cease fire with one another for months. Your forgetting how much land Hellstorm held. When we finally started the war they did strip us of our land, because we didn't know how to take the city because you had forge guns making an objective unhackable and core locus nades bombarding a hallway. Not to mention the ill coordinated alliance that was LoI. AE was the tip of the Spear the destroyed TP!!! FEC just gave trouble to the smaller EoN corps. TP just started locking their districts like a bunch of cowards when it got too much for them to handle. Suffering consecutive losses and attacks. They got bullied out.
But you are missing the point. You guys would still be chipping away at those districts if they hadn't quit. With as few guys as you have it would be similar if another FEC type push happened. Could you guys imagine fighting 50+ PC battles a day?
But that won't happen because there aren't enough people interested in PC to participate in such a venture. WHY? Because PC lag and mechanics ran off most of the players willing to participate.
I'm not taking away from what you've been able to accomplish, just as I'll always give props to Eon for what they were able to accomplish.
It's just funny because you guys talk of being bored, no competition, etc. The mechanics of PC are preventing the participation necessary to raise the level of participation. This thread is about what happens in the meantime until those changes are made.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2597
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 02:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
low genius wrote:mollerz wrote:I can't see a player market working with a few players that hold that much uncontested wealth. They can tweak and manipulate for days.
CCP really needs to make some adjustments, and cut that **** down as well as trade something nice and shiny for the trouble of taking the economy breaking wealth back.
the player market has very little to do with dust players. those items will be built on the eve side. in that regard the entirety of molden heath produces very little isk.
It's going to be a while before that happens. I have two industrial characters in Eve that could easily produce enough proto suits, tanks, dropships, etc for my entire corp.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2601
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 14:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:Politics like this are what I love about Dust.
But on a serious note, what exactly are the "broken mechanics" of PC you're talking about? I understand district locking is definitely not working as intended, but AE doesn't lock districts.....
As for PC lag, I can honestly say it's not that bad. I have bad lag about as frequently as I lag in pub matches. Although I do hard-reset in the warbarge during PC's.
Or are you saying it's just not right for so few to own so much? I understand this is easy for me to say, being in AE and all, but that's life. This game is meant to be a winner-take-all survival of the fittest venture. We're legitimately holding the districts we have, which are all open to attack.
Sorry, but i'm confused. What exactly do you want to happen to PC's?
Here's one of my posts from a different thread, also Airiana has a post in the feedback section here that is great.
The problem with PC is that the mechanics of it allow for small groups of players to dominate it with the 16vs16 and the 24 to 48 hour timers. I donGÇÖt think many people have a real grasp of what that means. When Eon controlled Molden Heath there were very few players doing the heavy lifting when considering the overall number of players involved.
Ringing started a situation where you would spend 160-240 million ISK attacking a district. In the last battle to take a district it was guaranteed that the match would be filled with an all-star team. This quickly whittled away at the number of players that were willing to participate and put up with this. By the end of EonGÇÖs reign many corps had pulled completely out of PC. 100s of billions of ISK was being generated with little to no fighting. Corps willing to take that on risked the infighting and implosion that resulted in the death of many corps.
There was a push by a random mix of players and corps in an effort called the F Eon Coalition. Massive numbers of attacks were dropped on their districts. Despite the bravado from Eon, they dried up and went inactive within weeks of this push. Districts were sold and traded and farming began.
Fast forward a few months and Ancient Exiles and Nyan San control the majority of Molden Heath. You are talking about 200 players with the active numbers much, much lower. These corps are pulling in levels of ISK that is game breaking due to mechanics that are crap. They are great players, amazing even but how long does a game mode sit unfinished while a select few go largely unchecked and racking in more money per day than the vast majority of Dust pulls in COMBINED on a daily basis.
IGÇÖve proposed in the War Room to remove passive ISK totally from PC.
Districts would be attackable every day with a 30 minute to 1 hr timer beginning at the time of attack. Corps could set a downtime window of 8-12 hours that effectively lock the district.
- successful defenses increase a payout multiplier
- successful attacks have a 2x multiplier
- successful, multi attack district flips increasing exponentially along the way.
If IGÇÖve got 80 people only and we want to go do some PC we should be able to launch some attacks and go have some fun. Not launch some attacks and 24 to 48 hours later hope that weGÇÖve got the right people online.
I also propose that ringers from outside of the alliance cost ISK, call it a clone transport fee. And it should be expensive.
District locking is the only thing keeping Molden Heath from being 100% dominated by an active group of less than 200 players. I agree that itGÇÖs bullshit, but I put that on CCP for a failed game mode. Planetary Conquest should be removed and replaced with corporate battles until PC 2.0 is released.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
|
|
| |
|