DUST Search - FOTM, Respecs, COMPETITIVE GAME

Tebu Gan wrote:

Let's stop and take a step back here.

Dust 514 is a competitive game. But what does that? Let's take it's counterpart, EVE, for comparison.

I can safely say EVE is a competitive game. In both PVP and PVE. But EvE has many non competitive aspects as well, like mining and producing. The main source of competition though comes from PVP, Ship vs Ship battles. Like Dust, there are strength in numbers, so it's not all about having the best gear, but it still plays a huge part.

In EVE, having a better ship, and in some cases bigger ship, than the one you are going up against will win you the encounter. In equal matchups between ships, it comes down to the persons skills. And then you have your Fleets (squads) coordinating together to take down enemies. The biggest thing though for both EVE and Dust, is the competition, you play to win.

When it comes to competing against another person, you look for every way possible to win. I don't think there is any such thing as a cheap tactics or FOTM. We are here to compete, we are here to win. In Dust how is it that you interact with other players? There are Red dots and Blue dots! Dust has a hint of RPG elements to it, but it IS a competitive team based shooter.

People go into the FOTM, not because they are scrubs! Because they, like anyone else, WANT TO WIN. Like back when everyone was running around in a Cal Logi, that suit was the ****. Even then people were crying FOTM and hating them for it. You know why you feel that hate, because there is an imbalance between your choices, and their choices. It has nothing to do with the person that chooses the FOTM, no doubt you would feel differently if that had been your first choice. People don't choose the FOTM to be ******* dicks, they choose it because they want to win. That is the POINT of the game!

The fault lies fully with CCP, and no one else. People get so happy when something gets nerfed, and they make sure to let FOTM chasers know. Oh sorry, your suit sucks now, how does it feel? Oh, so what, you were jealous, and now you have to rub it in a players face, when it was CCP who allowed these imbalances!

And people LOVE to bring this up in Respec discussions. Here is what is happening though.

Player A chooses gimped weapon
Player B chooses FOTM

Player B murders Player A for several months, until CCP makes another crack at balancing.
Player B gets nerfed Player A and B on more equal footing.

So, you wouldn't want an FOTM chaser to get a respec, because they made you suffer for 3 months. So they should suffer too. Does anyone else see how childish this all is. THE PLAYERS HAVE NEVER BEEN AT FAULT FOR DOING ANY WRONG. They just play to win, which is how you SHOULD play. So people did their homework, and choose the most powerful suit. Sorry you didn't do the same?

FOTM has no place in a respec discussion, I mean jesus how often can a FOTM player be an FOTM player. After they nerf them, they cease to be FOTM, and now must grind out new suits. WHICH AT THIS POINT THEY NO DOUBT HAVE DONE. Is everyone that went into the new rail rifle and combat rifle FOTM chasers! Should they be fair and just put down their shiny toys in place of something on your level!

NO, adapt or die. Oh they have rail rifles, well guess I'll pull mine to counter. Tactics 101.

If you are not playing to win, you are not playing the game!


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Jake Diesel BIG BAD W0LVES 65	Posted - 2014.01.23 15:58:00 - [1] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Let's stop and take a step back here. Dust 514 is a competitive game. But what does that? Let's take it's counterpart, EVE, for comparison. I can safely say EVE is a competitive game. In both PVP and PVE. But EvE has many non competitive aspects as well, like mining and producing. The main source of competition though comes from PVP, Ship vs Ship battles. Like Dust, there are strength in numbers, so it's not all about having the best gear, but it still plays a huge part. In EVE, having a better ship, and in some cases bigger ship, than the one you are going up against will win you the encounter. In equal matchups between ships, it comes down to the persons skills. And then you have your Fleets (squads) coordinating together to take down enemies. The biggest thing though for both EVE and Dust, is the competition, you play to win. When it comes to competing against another person, you look for every way possible to win. I don't think there is any such thing as a cheap tactics or FOTM. We are here to compete, we are here to win. In Dust how is it that you interact with other players? There are Red dots and Blue dots! Dust has a hint of RPG elements to it, but it IS a competitive team based shooter. People go into the FOTM, not because they are scrubs! Because they, like anyone else, WANT TO WIN. Like back when everyone was running around in a Cal Logi, that suit was the **. Even then people were crying FOTM and hating them for it. You know why you feel that hate, because there is an imbalance between your choices, and their choices. It has nothing to do with the person that chooses the FOTM, no doubt you would feel differently if that had been your first choice. People don't choose the FOTM to be *** dicks, they choose it because they want to win. That is the POINT of the game!** The fault lies fully with CCP, and no one else. People get so happy when something gets nerfed, and they make sure to let FOTM chasers know. Oh sorry, your suit sucks now, how does it feel? Oh, so what, you were jealous, and now you have to rub it in a players face, when it was CCP who allowed these imbalances! And people LOVE to bring this up in Respec discussions. Here is what is happening though. Player A chooses gimped weapon Player B chooses FOTM Player B murders Player A for several months, until CCP makes another crack at balancing. Player B gets nerfed Player A and B on more equal footing. So, you wouldn't want an FOTM chaser to get a respec, because they made you suffer for 3 months. So they should suffer too. Does anyone else see how childish this all is. THE PLAYERS HAVE NEVER BEEN AT FAULT FOR DOING ANY WRONG. They just play to win, which is how you SHOULD play. So people did their homework, and choose the most powerful suit. Sorry you didn't do the same? FOTM has no place in a respec discussion, I mean jesus how often can a FOTM player be an FOTM player. After they nerf them, they cease to be FOTM, and now must grind out new suits. WHICH AT THIS POINT THEY NO DOUBT HAVE DONE. Is everyone that went into the new rail rifle and combat rifle FOTM chasers! Should they be fair and just put down their shiny toys in place of something on your level! NO, adapt or die. Oh they have rail rifles, well guess I'll pull mine to counter. Tactics 101. If you are not playing to win, you are not playing the game! So in essence, if this "competitive player" found a way to constantly call in an orbital strike for the entire match, this would be ok with you? Because it's the same thing. And if you so no, then you've just proved yourself wrong. Racing is a competitive game too. Do think it's ok for an F1 car to go up against a NASCAR car in the same race? There's a reason why people complain about these things and that's all thanks to these KDR whores whole have gotten every weapon, build, vehicle that has ever dominated the game at any point in the history if Dust to have that high KDR. And no. Constant orbital strikes are not ok.
Jake Diesel BIG BAD W0LVES 65	Posted - 2014.01.23 18:29:00 - [2] - Quote So in essence, if this "competitive player" found a way to constantly call in an orbital strike for the entire match, this would be ok with you? Because it's the same thing. And if you say no, then you've just proved yourself wrong. Racing is a competitive game too. Do think it's ok for an F1 car to go up against a NASCAR car in the same race? There's a reason why people complain about these things and that's all thanks to these KDR whores whole have gotten every weapon, build, vehicle that has ever dominated the game at any point in the history if Dust to have that high KDR. And no. Constant orbital strikes are not ok.[/quote] No, and if something like that happens, they would hotfix it. It is not the same thing. Non stop orbis would give you an insane advantage over the battle, it's not even the same man. And even still, a competitive player will continue expanding SP growth into multiple areas anyways. So let's imagine those OP Cal logis, that got nerfed into the ground. They probably have 3 suits by now, and more than a few core skills and weapons. Now they could have gotten lucky, and chose Gal logi as another suit choice, but all of a sudden, those are the bomb. What about heavies, they murder now with the HMG. Oh no, what about mass driver users and laser rifles. Half these FOTM chasers are not FOTM chaser by choice, they just went into a suit they wanted and they happen to be OP. Some CHOOSE to go for the FOTM, like milita tankers, but I was a tanker before all this. Am I cheating now because I choose to stick with tanks?? See this is your logic, we don't really know what the future holds for our SP. All we can do is spend it and hope for the best, and use new SP to keep aiming for a competitive weapon or suit.[/quote] The message I was trying to convey with that orbital strike example is not about glitches. What I am saying is this - if you give the weapons that could decimate the enemy with ease, players WILL flock to it. And the players I refer to are the KDR whores who care nothing for tanks, weapons, LAV's, RE's, or dropsuits. The only thing they care about is their KDR. And what combination of anything that would get them the most kills quickly with the least amount of deaths. These are the players who would've gotten everything from murder taxis, flaylocks, redline sniping, tower forging, and now militia tanks. Whatever the FOTM is/was. They've been there and done that. And the ones who get the loss are players like you and me who happen to spec into something we are passionate with and has nothing to do with KDR. I love my forge gun and nothing will ever replace it. No matter how much they nerf it.
Jake Diesel BIG BAD W0LVES 67	Posted - 2014.01.23 18:43:00 - [3] - Quote But the reality of it all, there's no such thing as a perfect balance in fps games. There's just way too many variables that would allow it. But we can at least come close. In my opinion, CCP is waaay off course. Tanks should be relying on infantry for support when attacking a well defended set of redberry infantry. This promotes team play. But now every Sica tank goes out and solos an all infantry enemy stronghold. This is the direction CCP took the 1.7 update to. And it's not good.
Jake Diesel BIG BAD W0LVES 70	Posted - 2014.01.23 20:03:00 - [4] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Jake Diesel wrote: But the reality of it all, there's no such thing as a perfect balance in fps games. There's just way too many variables that would allow it. But we can at least come close. In my opinion, CCP is waaay off course. Tanks should be relying on infantry for support when attacking a well defended set of redberry infantry. This promotes team play. But now every Sica tank goes out and solos an all infantry enemy stronghold. This is the direction CCP took the 1.7 update to. And it's not good. We also need to remember that there are 2 types of balance: stat balance and community balance. It doesn't matter if armor vs shield is balanced if everyone is using anti-shield weapons, for example. I somewhat agree. But from what I've learned observing CCP's nack for relying on stat numbers is this - all of those fancy stats and concepts are thrown out the window when it comes time to seeing them in action on the battlefield. What happens on the battlefield will tell the truth of all those stats and ideas when the KDR whores grab a hold of them.