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CRYPT3C W0LF
Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic
242
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 22:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just to start it off before anyone continues to read, this is all speculation and could change an a moments noticed depending on what CCP does
Now I know A large portion of the player base are asking, pleading, praying, and ultimately arguing over a skill Refund, and honestly they're are multiple reasons why/why not. In my honest opinion, I believe a refund would be less then beneficial and would do more harm then good, although I'll discuss several different reasons why.
From a business stand point, it would be completely illogical to reward a skill refund as they would potentially lose addition revenue from players buying Boosters or Aurum Items from the market place as players will be able to skill into what ever weapon or item they desire. Further more indirectly, Many of the Veteran players will know what and what not to skill into depending on usefulness. This in turn will lead to many people flocking to a very Powerful weapon, suit, or module as This thread expresses (Props to Scar Scrilla). To add on, this will inturn doesn't reward new(er) players and contributes to FoTM Proto stomping, discouraging new players and diminishes potential sales. Also why would CCP have a 5x SP week (I know its Warpoints:P) when they would give everyone a respec too weeks later? They're giving us the chance to stock up on SP to dump in too the cool new stuff when 1.8 is released
Now you may bring up the "I had no choice so I had to spec into the only heavy available and thus I should receive a refund because CCP didn't have all racial suits/weapons." And the only thing I can really see is that you knew the "risks" when you speced into the item, and most likely if you have Proto you are hopefully able to grind into a new Proto suit when a month (assuming you're buying boosters) And as I mentioned before, Many people will flock to the new FoTM, and max out Proto hurting the new or low SP players. Now of course, This is semi easy fix considering they can easily "nerf" or tone down the "OP" gear, If they deem necessary. Its also to put the needs as a community infront of you're own wants, looking at the bigger picture on how it will effect the entire community and not focusing on a specific group of people or idea.
Okay, so now you decide to bring up the "I brought a Lamborghini and I come back the next day and its a mini van!" Now I can see how its unfair to the group of people that where effected by the change, and I feel sympathy for you. But nevertheless as CCP stated "You must live with your choices, for this is new Eden" (not exactly, but somewhat similar), I'm Also sure a good portion of you guys knew that at one point, you realized that you're FoTM will one day be gone. Well, now there's the other portion of people that speced into their favorite suit because it suited you're certain play style (EI, Minmatar Logi, Amarr Assault) And as much as it sucks, you may very well may need to adapt, and besides, humans are great at that, aren't we?
Any more suggestions are completely welcome, from either side (respec or not) and I'd be happy to hear what you guys think
Cheers :)
You're Friendly Scout Youtuber, A Merc With a Passion! :)
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Fire of Prometheus
DUST University Ivy League
3110
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 22:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well said, I say this is the last and final respec in the history of dust and then be done with it.
Either way, I'm getting into a Caldari commando ^.^
Commando 6 // A.R.C Commander // D-Uni instructor
A Balac's and a Thale's.....What's on your commando?
Forum warrior 3
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CRYPT3C W0LF
Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic
243
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 23:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fire of Prometheus wrote:Well said, I say this is the last and final respec in the history of dust and then be done with it.
Either way, I'm getting into a Caldari commando ^.^
Caldari commando will be badass :P
You're Friendly Scout Youtuber, A Merc With a Passion! :)
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Heimdallr69
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1442
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 23:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't believe in respecs but this time I do I mean new suits new weapons. I have every rifle pro 5 I have cal assault and gal logi and after this build I won't run logi anymore I don't use a scanner like seriously? And equipment is getting a type of nerf..
Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
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Munin-Frey
Fish Spotters Inc.
95
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Posted - 2014.01.22 23:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
I won't comment on all of your argument but I'd say NOT giving people respec's drives players away..... imagine you've spent weeks or even months investing all that time (skill points) into something and it sucks now or CCP releases something better or simply something fun to switch to because you are bored with your current setup. Because you've already spent a good deal of time grinding to get something you probably will be sick of grinding and feel like you've already put in your time. So instead of doing it all over again you just quit and play something else..... there are plenty of other games out there. Live with your choices? Yeah right, this is a video game. You don't have to live with your choices... you just quit and play something else.
Closed Beta Veteran
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Lorhak Gannarsein
1289
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Posted - 2014.01.22 23:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
That's all well and good, but if I don't get a respec, I'm out. I know for a fact I'm not the only one who feels this way.
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
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Malek McRoland
DUST University Ivy League
174
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Posted - 2014.01.22 23:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Partial Respec for Dropsuit Skillbooks and SP/ISK used for them. Solved. The line of "I had no choice so I had to spec into the only heavy available and thus I should receive a refund because CCP didn't have all racial suits/weapons" isn't a good reason.
I don't blame any heavy for caving into getting Amarr Heavy, but to sink with no heavy suit or swim with a suit you hate? This isn't a good business model. All the racial variants are out soon; let the parody take it's course. Besides my alt is sick of running Amarr Commando-bring the variety and let me choose.
Loyal Amarr and Caldari supporter
Don't even start with AV and how tanks are not OP.
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Aizen Intiki
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
730
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Posted - 2014.01.22 23:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
This ain't the last respec. We still have to do the same for vehicles, and then, if tiercide happens, which if the devs get their heads out their asses, it will. So that's two right there.
"Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say
Alt of the great Godin
I like chocolate ^___^
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fawkuima juggalo
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
862
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 23:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
NOPE gimmie respec plz.
- LOGI REGISTRY / H.O.F. *NEW SEC ADDED -
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KING CHECKMATE
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
3923
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Posted - 2014.01.22 23:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
RESPEC PLS
GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
2940
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 23:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
The "living with your decision" argument doesn't work if you decided to get a dual tank suit and now you've got an armour tanker.
And the business argument doesn't apply because I'll probably stop playing & paying if the only specialisations I've maxed are turned into suits I have no interest in.
No.
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Waiyu Ren
Immortal Guides
7
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Posted - 2014.01.22 23:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
I would like a respec, a total respec that is: Suits, Command, Weapons, and Vehicles. I had no idea what i was doing when i started, and my SP is all over the place. (Which is why i've started playing as a logi.... Accidental progression!)
I have a whole 2.6mil SP.... which is sweet F-all, but if optimised into one role could bring me closer to a competitive level (Stat-wise at least, Skill-wise is another story...).
I'm actually surprised that an "Aur for Respec" option doesn't exist.... Dust, for all that it is billed as a Free to play game, has enough pay to win elements to stretch the term "free" a bit far....
I'm hedging my bets either way. This character i'll continue to play with, the two alts i've set up can remain untouched and accruing passive SP for the next 6 months. And of course Destiny Beta is just around the corner, so to speak. :)
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2741
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 00:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:This ain't the last respec. We still have to do the same for vehicles, and then, if tiercide happens, which if the devs get their heads out their asses, it will. So that's two right there.
We just had the vehicle respec and they designed the new skill system to make it much easier to cross train. Vehicle respec won't happen again just because of racial parity. Personally, I'm planning accordingly and know that I'll be cross training into Minmatar Dropships. I'll end up training for all the dropships anyway.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Aizen Intiki
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
731
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Posted - 2014.01.23 00:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Aizen Intiki wrote:This ain't the last respec. We still have to do the same for vehicles, and then, if tiercide happens, which if the devs get their heads out their asses, it will. So that's two right there. We just had the vehicle respec and they designed the new skill system to make it much easier to cross train. Vehicle respec won't happen again just because of racial parity. Personally, I'm planning accordingly and know that I'll be cross training into Minmatar Dropships. I'll end up training for all the dropships anyway.
1: projectile and laser turrets will come
2: tech 2 racial hulls will come
3: Something tells me that that won't stick
Come again?
"Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say
Alt of the great Godin
I like chocolate ^___^
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Centurion mkII
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
199
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 00:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
I didn't make that choice. They made it for me. |
Centurion mkII
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
199
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 00:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
I didn't make the choice CCP did. They didn't reduce the PG so I now can't fit a complex kincat. They restructured. I didn't choose the suits that im in sure there still heavy scout or assault but they changed a large variety of possible fits for them.
2. Premise CCP created a game with a high degree of customization. With 1.8 we will have 6 classes of 4 races each. With 1.8 we will have around 11 light weapons , 2 heavy weapons and 5 side arms.
Conclusion CCP wants there to be variety in their game.
--
2. Premise You don't have just assault suits you have each race. ( slot layouts ect.) You don't have just the standard assault rifle you have variations. These variations clearly have an impact on game play.
Conclusion Specialized roles matter.
Specialized roles matter and have an impact on gameplay. A gallente assault isn't the same as a minmatar assault they serve different roles and as a change result game play. CCP clearly thought this mattered that's why the included variety.
--
3.Premise Amarr heavy is switching to 2 highs three lows and changing its armor to 600 and shields to 200. This no longer makes it what I chose. Amarr command slot layout is changing. Minmatar and Gallente scout are having drastic slot changes.
Conclusion While changes to the suits still have them serve a similar function they have different specialized roles.
With these suits having their specialized roles changing there not the same. There different suits. I don't want to be a amour tanked heavy with 2 highs and a sad 3 lows. I didn't choose what i consider to be a bad armor tanked heavy ccp did. I deserve a refund because ccp spent my time investment into something I didn't want.
Note: If this seemed pretentious please tell me. I tried to order it out logically and list all my reasons but I think It reads a little douche like. Please tell me if you think so. I wouldn't want to repeat this if so. |
Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
583
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 00:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
I respect the OPs opinion and how it was evenly stated except, please don't use the free to play card. I've spent a couple hundred bucks on this game as have many other closed Beta vets. Free to play is a pricing scheme not a be all end all excuse to allow the developers off the hook on everything.
Now I will likely be able to go full proto in any extra suit by the time 1.8 rolls out but I still believe a respec will be more beneficial than do harm for the following reasons:
1. People have spent SP based upon roles that were given suits/weapons based on what they were at the time. For example I specialized in Minmatar assault and SMG on my alt char because the two were basically made to go together, now with different suit bonuses Minmatar assault is built to go with damage mods not sidearms. So now I can struggle to keep playing that suit against the grain or I can call that 4 million SP wasted....either way I'm less happy and less likely to keep playing, buying Aurum, etc.. I'm rational compared to many people in this game and forums, many will just get (justifiably) angry and quit.
2. Lack of a respec is not going to give any newcomer an advantage. I'll still have my core skills maxed where they do not, I'll still know the game better, I'll still be in a squad of guys I've played with for almost 2 years and they won't. Until CCP really tackles the NPE with better tutuorials, longer academy, and PvE for grind new players are f**ked...welcome to New Eden.
3. There are many bitter vets who have quit playing Dust. 1.7 brought some back, some have stayed playing again, others have left again. A respec in 1.8 is more likely to bring old players back where as a new player is not going to even know there was a respec or not
4. Since CCP does a terrible job with the NPE people who picked up the game a couple months ago are going to benefit more from a respec than us Beta vets.
5. If CCP does this suit rebalance right there will be no FotB anymore all suits and weapons will be viable within their role.
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Marad''er
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
526
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 01:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Actually from a business standpoint, i think it would be more illogical to completely enrage your customers by not giving them a respec when they clearly deserve it, AND they are practically screaming for it.
GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢
Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà
Forum Warrior LV. 4 | pâÅpéñpâápü»tºüpü«µëôµÆâpéÆF¦ápüúpüªpüäpéï | PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
10265
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 01:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
I just
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1707
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 01:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
What fiend said
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
2202
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 01:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dropsuit Command, Dropsuit Upgrades, and Weaponry are all being affected by the racial parity pass and deserve one final respec, especially with the newly implemented LP Store and how it determines your fitting possibilities. The more selective they are about which categories are respecced the more they will create inconsistencies in how current skills interact with reallocated points and more headaches (read:crying on the forums) from the playerbase.
Natalie Portman.
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KING CHECKMATE
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
3930
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 01:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Dropsuit Command, Dropsuit Upgrades, and Weaponry are all being affected by the racial parity pass and deserve one final respec, especially with the newly implemented LP Store and how it determines your fitting possibilities. The more selective they are about which categories are respecced the more they will create inconsistencies in how current skills interact with reallocated points and more headaches (read:crying on the forums) from the playerbase.
Just stop bumping this stupid thread please.......... Its obvious we need an infantry respec,no need to feed the trolls....
GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
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KING CHECKMATE
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
3931
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Marad''er wrote:Actually from a business standpoint, i think it would be more illogical to completely enrage your customers by not giving them a respec when they clearly deserve it, AND they are practically screaming for it.
+1
****, i thought this was another thread. Accidental bump of stupidity....
GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
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Fire of Prometheus
DUST University Ivy League
3119
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 02:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
Malek McRoland wrote:Partial Respec for Dropsuit Skillbooks and SP/ISK used for them. Solved. The line of "I had no choice so I had to spec into the only heavy available and thus I should receive a refund because CCP didn't have all racial suits/weapons" isn't a good reason.
I don't blame any heavy for caving into getting Amarr Heavy, but to sink with no heavy suit or swim with a suit you hate? This isn't a good business model. All the racial variants are out soon; let the parody take it's course. Besides my alt is sick of running Amarr Commando-bring the variety and let me choose. You have a commando alt? Who is it?
Commando 6 // A.R.C Commander // D-Uni instructor
A Balac's and a Thale's.....What's on your commando?
Forum warrior 3
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
6086
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 02:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
CRYPT3C W0LF wrote:Just to start it off before anyone continues to read, this is all speculation and could change an a moments noticed depending on what CCP does Now I know A large portion of the player base are asking, pleading, praying, and ultimately arguing over a skill Refund, and honestly they're are multiple reasons why/why not. In my honest opinion, I believe a refund would be less then beneficial and would do more harm then good, although I'll discuss several different reasons why. From a business stand point, it would be completely illogical to reward a skill refund as they would potentially lose additional revenue from players buying Boosters or Aurum Items from the market place as players will be able to skill into what ever weapon or item they desire. Further more indirectly, Many of the Veteran players will know what and what not to skill into depending on usefulness. This in turn will lead to many people flocking to a very Powerful weapon, suit, or module as This thread expresses (Props to Scar Scrilla). To add on, this will inturn doesn't reward new(er) players and contributes to FoTM Proto stomping, discouraging new players and diminishes potential sales. Also why would CCP have a 5x SP week (I know its Warpoints:P) when they would give everyone a respec too weeks later? They're giving us the chance to stock up on SP to dump in too the cool new stuff when 1.8 is released Now you may bring up the "I had no choice so I had to spec into the only heavy available and thus I should receive a refund because CCP didn't have all racial suits/weapons." And the only thing I can really see is that you knew the "risks" when you speced into the item, and most likely if you have Proto you are hopefully able to grind into a new Proto suit when a month (assuming you're buying boosters) And as I mentioned before, Many people will flock to the new FoTM, and max out Proto hurting the new or low SP players. Now of course, This is semi easy fix considering they can easily "nerf" or tone down the "OP" gear, If they deem necessary. Its also important to put the needs as a community infront of you're own wants, looking at the bigger picture on how it will effect the entire community and not focusing on a specific group of people or idea. Okay, so now you decide to bring up the "I brought a Lamborghini and I come back the next day and its a mini van!" Now I can see how its unfair to the group of people that where effected by the change, and I feel sympathy for you. But nevertheless as CCP stated "You must live with your choices, for this is new Eden" (not exactly, but somewhat similar), I'm Also sure a good portion of you guys knew that at one point, you realized that you're FoTM will one day be gone. Well, now there's the other portion of people that speced into their favorite suit because it suited you're certain play style (EI, Minmatar Logi, Amarr Assault) And as much as it sucks, you may very well may need to adapt, and besides, humans are great at that, aren't we? And to end it off, This Is A free to play game, which I believe quite a few people forgot that it was Any more suggestions are completely welcome, from either side (respec or not) and I'd be happy to hear what you guys think Cheers :)
You don't get to make the argument that "this is New Eden so live with your choices".
We are less than a year into New Eden and not even a part of it yet. We don't get the right to make comments like that.
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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knight of 6
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1218
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 02:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
CRYPT3C W0LF wrote:Just to start it off before anyone continues to read, this is all speculation and could change an a moments noticed depending on what CCP does Now I know A large portion of the player base are asking, pleading, praying, and ultimately arguing over a skill Refund, and honestly they're are multiple reasons why/why not. In my honest opinion, I believe a refund would be less then beneficial and would do more harm then good, although I'll discuss several different reasons why. From a business stand point, it would be completely illogical to reward a skill refund as they would potentially lose additional revenue from players buying Boosters or Aurum Items from the market place as players will be able to skill into what ever weapon or item they desire. Further more indirectly, Many of the Veteran players will know what and what not to skill into depending on usefulness. This in turn will lead to many people flocking to a very Powerful weapon, suit, or module as This thread expresses (Props to Scar Scrilla). To add on, this will inturn doesn't reward new(er) players and contributes to FoTM Proto stomping, discouraging new players and diminishes potential sales. Also why would CCP have a 5x SP week (I know its Warpoints:P) when they would give everyone a respec too weeks later? They're giving us the chance to stock up on SP to dump in too the cool new stuff when 1.8 is released Now you may bring up the "I had no choice so I had to spec into the only heavy available and thus I should receive a refund because CCP didn't have all racial suits/weapons." And the only thing I can really see is that you knew the "risks" when you speced into the item, and most likely if you have Proto you are hopefully able to grind into a new Proto suit when a month (assuming you're buying boosters) And as I mentioned before, Many people will flock to the new FoTM, and max out Proto hurting the new or low SP players. Now of course, This is semi easy fix considering they can easily "nerf" or tone down the "OP" gear, If they deem necessary. Its also important to put the needs as a community infront of you're own wants, looking at the bigger picture on how it will effect the entire community and not focusing on a specific group of people or idea. Okay, so now you decide to bring up the "I brought a Lamborghini and I come back the next day and its a mini van!" Now I can see how its unfair to the group of people that where effected by the change, and I feel sympathy for you. But nevertheless as CCP stated "You must live with your choices, for this is new Eden" (not exactly, but somewhat similar), I'm Also sure a good portion of you guys knew that at one point, you realized that you're FoTM will one day be gone. Well, now there's the other portion of people that speced into their favorite suit because it suited you're certain play style (EI, Minmatar Logi, Amarr Assault) And as much as it sucks, you may very well may need to adapt, and besides, humans are great at that, aren't we? And to end it off, This Is A free to play game, which I believe quite a few people forgot that it was Any more suggestions are completely welcome, from either side (respec or not) and I'd be happy to hear what you guys think Cheers :) the analogy is about a Ferrari, bitcoins, and a tricycle, get it right!
CCP stated "You must live with your choices, for this is new Eden" but it wasn't my choice now was it? it was CCP's decision.
and for the respec will enable FOTM chasers: I'm calling Bullshit right here right now.
high SP players already have all their cores filled out and multiple proto dropsuits. they will benifit very little from a respec. moderate SP players will benifit the most from a respec and they will be able to min max their build low SP players will be able to fix their earlier mistakes and min max their build a little
also high SP players have been around a while they most likely took advantage of the last respec to min max their build and correct any errors from their noob days. I would bet their post respec build would be very close to or identical to their current build.
"God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon
Ko6, scout.
CLOSED BETA VET
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CRYPT3C W0LF
Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic
256
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Posted - 2014.01.23 02:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
I guess a Lot of people want respecs huh :P
You're Friendly Scout Youtuber, A Merc With a Passion! :)
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Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising
2204
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 02:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
They are releasing all of the racial suits.
They at LEAST need to give a Dropsuit Command Respec.
I personally am hoping for A Command and Upgrade Respec. If they throw in a weapon respec, I would probably buy some AUR cause I'd be so happy
Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face.
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
867
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Posted - 2014.01.23 02:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
i have probably the most compelling argument for a dropsuit refund
without a refund it will take at minimum an ADDITIONAL 1-2 months for the imbalances that may be amung the new suits and bonuses to become really evident.
meaning the game will be imbalanced for longer, potentially hurting the game just as much as 1.7 |
Darken-Soul
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
91
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Posted - 2014.01.23 02:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
I have plenty of reasons I want a respec. The people who argue against it chant about responsibility and commitment. How come these people do not take their advice to CCP. A little consistency and forethought from the game developers would help the community from demanding actions like respecs and refunds. Why is it ok for CCP to change the game every month but the community has to live with their own decisions. Even decisions made prior to radical changes.
Blindly supporting change for one party and blatantly opposing it for another is hypocrisy. If the nay sayers examine the true facts instead of parroting New Eden dogma perhaps they will realize their foolishness.
I am the real Darken
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