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Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
36
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Posted - 2014.01.21 04:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://imgur.com/a/k6ttm
I just spent my MLK evening playing some Dust and I decided after a couple of matches to take some screens of the outcomes of random Ambush - the most likely game mode for people to play (new or old) if running solo.
As you can see, the past few hours have done nothing for my personal KDR. I'd like to call your attention to the matches where there was an entire team of people from the same corporation communicating on comms, stomping the randoms' guts out.
This isn't such a big deal since it is allowed of course. But I have to ask myself if the devs would think this was a fun game as a solo random on what is supposed to be the most dead night of the week (no one needs SP practically).
Is this your intention? I'm asking CCP Logibro and CCP Soxfour specifically. I know sox has some appendicitis going on, but this goes for anyone filling in for him. Does this look like fun?
I've been to fanfest (the 10 yr anniversary was spectacular btw). I've been in Dust's beta since I was allowed. I play when I can. Give me one good reason why you think that you deserve any money from the 'filthy casuals' with a match making system that is broken beyond words.
I get it, you want new features for the PC guys (I'm a software engineer by trade - I get it). But what about your casuals that just want to log in and play a few matches? The difficulty curve is simply not a curve anymore. It's worse than the cliff that is eve. The noobs that have no where to go for a lack of time commitment are the ones that suffer here.
there is of course that whole 'HTFU'... As a seven year + eve vet, I'm more than familiar. But there's nothing to harden up to. When there is zero room for growth as a player, your only option is to simply quit. I was able to do what I could with the linked groups, but I'm not going to be in all of these matches. When are you going to take a stand and say that pre-made groups need to be stuck with pre-made groups to play against? Feeding noobs to the grinder is what happens in Eve. We can get away with it somewhat since there's more to do than 'lobby shooter'.
I'm here asking on behalf of the noobs. Help us developers. New suits won't save us. You're our only hope! |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
49
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Posted - 2014.01.21 12:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:fenix this is why nobody in burgezz plays tankbush.
only exception is when bane puts me in one when I tell him not to.
Well, the problem for me not playing ambush is that the other modes lend themselves to group play (each group takes a point for example). When I want to just solo grind, I'd like to put up against other solo players. Someone mentioned PvE, but then you're not getting any better against players. I do want to play your game CCP. I've been playing it for a long time now, but ambush has never been so broken.
Instead of giving us new suits or new vehicles, just fix the damn matchmaker. I can't advertise this to any of my friends in its current state. They'll join, get stomped by a bunch of queue sync'ing protobears and never want to log in again. |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
51
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Posted - 2014.01.21 13:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:You got Nyain Slammed. Get outta ambush to avoid it :)
If you MUST play ambush, I highly recommend using two complex dampeners to avoid Nyain Scans. Unfortunately if the 1.8 Gal Logi precision buff goes through, you'll need to scout up to avoid them.
And also, use remotes, as a straight up fight against Nyain San will likely result in your immediate death.
There were a couple of situations where this might have saved me, but I was just in a free suit (skinweave logi) isk'ing. Interesting idea though. A full team of scout suits with damps and remotes...
Could be fun I guess, but then I think about how quickly they would die to nearly anything rendering the remotes useless.
Ambush in essence is a straight up fight. It's not supposed to have a ton of sneaking around once the firefight is on. There are no points to camp. It's all about the body count. I used to like playing Ambush, because I could work on my gun game without thinking about the point being capped behind me while I'm trying to finish off the heavy that's charging my squad with an HMG and 3 reps on him.
Main point: match making is broken. I'm okay fighting against a squad of nyain, but I want someone else that can compete with them on my team rather than stacking those players with nyain. |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
57
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 14:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Scar Scrilla wrote:Fenix Alexarr wrote:http://imgur.com/a/k6ttm
I just spent my MLK evening playing some Dust and I decided after a couple of matches to take some screens of the outcomes of random Ambush - the most likely game mode for people to play (new or old) if running solo.
As you can see, the past few hours have done nothing for my personal KDR. I'd like to call your attention to the matches where there was an entire team of people from the same corporation communicating on comms, stomping the randoms' guts out.
This isn't such a big deal since it is allowed of course. But I have to ask myself if the devs would think this was a fun game as a solo random on what is supposed to be the most dead night of the week (no one needs SP practically).
Is this your intention? I'm asking CCP Logibro and CCP Soxfour specifically. I know sox has some appendicitis going on, but this goes for anyone filling in for him. Does this look like fun?
I've been to fanfest (the 10 yr anniversary was spectacular btw). I've been in Dust's beta since I was allowed. I play when I can. Give me one good reason why you think that you deserve any money from the 'filthy casuals' with a match making system that is broken beyond words.
I get it, you want new features for the PC guys (I'm a software engineer by trade - I get it). But what about your casuals that just want to log in and play a few matches? The difficulty curve is simply not a curve anymore. It's worse than the cliff that is eve. The noobs that have no where to go for a lack of time commitment are the ones that suffer here.
there is of course that whole 'HTFU'... As a seven year + eve vet, I'm more than familiar. But there's nothing to harden up to. When there is zero room for growth as a player, your only option is to simply quit. I was able to do what I could with the linked groups, but I'm not going to be in all of these matches. When are you going to take a stand and say that pre-made groups need to be stuck with pre-made groups to play against? Feeding noobs to the grinder is what happens in Eve. We can get away with it somewhat since there's more to do than 'lobby shooter'.
I'm here asking on behalf of the noobs. Help us developers. New suits won't save us. You're our only hope! 2 Questions: Why run solo in a team-based game? Why play ambush at all?
good question!
I was running solo, because I wanted quick games. When queuing as a group, there are usually delays.
I wanted Ambush or something similar, because Ambush isn't as dependent on organization. What I mean by that is the objective in Ambush is just to kill people. I don't have to hold a point to win. I have a higher degree of success as a solo player when my objective isn't as heavily dependent on the people around me. Skirmish suffers from this same problem. See the threads about red line removal.
My scores were generally not depressing, but they were not good at all. I was running a free setup to make some ISK. These people need a place to organize and queue as a team against other, similar teams. Stomping in Ambush is easy ISK and SP for these guys - that's why they do it. The noobs/casuals have no where else to go. |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
57
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 14:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:eh I always solo doms, I would solo skirms but the constant running around bores me, I enjoy the constant fights on the letter.
adapt and overcome. if they bring 6 people you just need to be better then 6 people. or bring 5 of them with you, also occasionally the blue dots aren't complete **** ups and can be useful =).
Adapt and overcome is fine. I agree with that. The problem is that in doing that, you are feeding the problem. The match maker doesn't pair you against the squad of 6 proto stompers all the time. When you don't fight them, you end up steam rolling noobs and casuals.
PC's and FW are great for stomping. In fact, I encourage more people to try and stomp for Caldari since all of my gear comes from the Caldari LP store. In Ambush, you cannot easily control who you fight with and against. |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
58
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 15:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:Use the squad finder. Solo players leave themselves at a huge disadvantage. You can still run around and pretend you are Rambo, but the chances are you will have at least 5 other guys on your team that get what Dust is about.
Every one has justifications for their behaviors, notice I didn't say reasons. If you reason it out you would be in a squad.
Rambo wouldn't be here crying that battle is too tough for him.
"HURR DUURR.... HTFU.... GTFO NOOB... SQUAD UP"
Read the post again. That's the least productive thing you could say. It's not about running around like Rambo. It's about playing with people of the same skill/gear/sp level. |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
64
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 22:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:Darken-Soul wrote:Use the squad finder. Solo players leave themselves at a huge disadvantage. You can still run around and pretend you are Rambo, but the chances are you will have at least 5 other guys on your team that get what Dust is about.
Every one has justifications for their behaviors, notice I didn't say reasons. If you reason it out you would be in a squad.
Rambo wouldn't be here crying that battle is too tough for him. He isn't. He is saying it is too tough for new players, which it is. Read his posts, he is complaining that he cant be effective against squads by himself. He always has a reason he doesn't want to be in a squad. perhaps a different game would suit him. I am just giving advice to someone who clearly needs help.
Or maybe you could read the post...
I'm not asking for help for me. I have a good corp and a squad when I want it. I'm also not complaining about being effective against a squad as a solo player. I understand that running into a group of 6 guys by myself is a pretty bad idea in 95% of situations.
I'm talking about the 'filthy casuals' and how they feel. "HURRR DURRR SQUAD UP" is not a solution to the problem of fresh recruits being put against a team that has several organized squads queue sync'ing and ending up on the same team. Putting those fresh recruits against even unorganized highly skilled/experienced players is also a problem.
As stated in the OP that you didn't bother to read, "Feeding noobs to the grinder is what happens in Eve. We can get away with it somewhat since there's more to do than 'lobby shooter'." Without the lobby shooter, there's nothing else that a solo player can do without having a bunch of experience under his belt or very serious masochistic tendencies (solo ambush).
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Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
64
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Posted - 2014.01.21 22:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Azura Sakura wrote:This is something I always have whine about. I care more for the new players than the stat padding proto bears. You think some people will lay off the try hard when you see half a lobby of starter corps. Truth to tell, this never crosses my mind. I see red dots, I shoot. I play to win, not Play to cather to a lesser players needs. I takes a bit of an investment SP wise to go proto, and if I can afford to run it (I can) I do. Why play with lesser toys, when the big shiny ones are on the table right next to them!! Don't blame the players, blame the game! Players just play to win, isn't that the point to a ******* shoooter!!
I'm not blaming the stompers per say... The game is indeed what allows them to rampage through a bunch of noobs with ISK and SP as rewards. That's what I'm hoping someone from CCP can help out with. They read the forums and have lots of parsing algorithms that give them frequency tables for certain words coming up in the forums. |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
70
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Posted - 2014.01.21 22:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:Fenix Alexarr wrote:Darken-Soul wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:Darken-Soul wrote:Use the squad finder. Solo players leave themselves at a huge disadvantage. You can still run around and pretend you are Rambo, but the chances are you will have at least 5 other guys on your team that get what Dust is about.
Every one has justifications for their behaviors, notice I didn't say reasons. If you reason it out you would be in a squad.
Rambo wouldn't be here crying that battle is too tough for him. He isn't. He is saying it is too tough for new players, which it is. Read his posts, he is complaining that he cant be effective against squads by himself. He always has a reason he doesn't want to be in a squad. perhaps a different game would suit him. I am just giving advice to someone who clearly needs help. Or maybe you could read the post... I'm not asking for help for me. I have a good corp and a squad when I want it. I'm also not complaining about being effective against a squad as a solo player. I understand that running into a group of 6 guys by myself is a pretty bad idea in 95% of situations. I'm talking about the 'filthy casuals' and how they feel. "HURRR DURRR SQUAD UP" is not a solution to the problem of fresh recruits being put against a team that has several organized squads queue sync'ing and ending up on the same team. Putting those fresh recruits against even unorganized highly skilled/experienced players is also a problem. As stated in the OP that you didn't bother to read, "Feeding noobs to the grinder is what happens in Eve. We can get away with it somewhat since there's more to do than 'lobby shooter'." Without the lobby shooter, there's nothing else that a solo player can do without having a bunch of experience under his belt or very serious masochistic tendencies (solo ambush). Your opening sentence was about solo players. All your posts are about ambush and not being in squads. What conclusion were you hoping I would come to? Were you here in open beta? That's how long I've been training new players. I have a corp made up of mostly casual players. Making it easy for the solo player is not the way to go. New guys get the shaft. It sucks. I have always been there for any one who wants to learn. CCP doesn't really care about gear disparity or NPE. They never have. We as leaders must do that on our own. I am telling you and new players to use the squad finder. Read the descriptions. I know I run a training squad or Big Bad HQ most days. There is plenty of people and resources to bridge the gap.
Props for pushing new players toward success. I've been around since closed beta. I've not been keeping up on skill point caps as I have other games that I play.
But yeah, new players don't always see that bridge across the gap. Player attrition is high. I'm glad that you're pushing people to squad up since that can increase their chances, but the skill/gear/sp disparity still exists. A squad of 6 noobs is still going to get wtfstomped by 6 hardened vets. I'm not trying to put anyone down, but that's what the imgur album was about. There are people in these games consistently getting pounded into the ground with no help from the people responsible for the matchmaker in sight. |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
70
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 22:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:Fenix Alexarr wrote:http://imgur.com/a/k6ttm
I just spent my MLK evening playing some Dust and I decided after a couple of matches to take some screens of the outcomes of random Ambush - the most likely game mode for people to play (new or old) if running solo.
As you can see, the past few hours have done nothing for my personal KDR. I'd like to call your attention to the matches where there was an entire team of people from the same corporation communicating on comms, stomping the randoms' guts out.
This isn't such a big deal since it is allowed of course. But I have to ask myself if the devs would think this was a fun game as a solo random on what is supposed to be the most dead night of the week (no one needs SP practically).
Is this your intention? I'm asking CCP Logibro and CCP Soxfour specifically. I know sox has some appendicitis going on, but this goes for anyone filling in for him. Does this look like fun?
I've been to fanfest (the 10 yr anniversary was spectacular btw). I've been in Dust's beta since I was allowed. I play when I can. Give me one good reason why you think that you deserve any money from the 'filthy casuals' with a match making system that is broken beyond words.
I get it, you want new features for the PC guys (I'm a software engineer by trade - I get it). But what about your casuals that just want to log in and play a few matches? The difficulty curve is simply not a curve anymore. It's worse than the cliff that is eve. The noobs that have no where to go for a lack of time commitment are the ones that suffer here.
there is of course that whole 'HTFU'... As a seven year + eve vet, I'm more than familiar. But there's nothing to harden up to. When there is zero room for growth as a player, your only option is to simply quit. I was able to do what I could with the linked groups, but I'm not going to be in all of these matches. When are you going to take a stand and say that pre-made groups need to be stuck with pre-made groups to play against? Feeding noobs to the grinder is what happens in Eve. We can get away with it somewhat since there's more to do than 'lobby shooter'.
I'm here asking on behalf of the noobs. Help us developers. New suits won't save us. You're our only hope! A little advice. Be in your own squad. Make it public and call it something like "Ambush ISK and WP grind". Then every time you enter a match press "select", then select the option for "team chat" and scroll to all of the peeps without a squad and invite them. Then play the match. Then repeat for two or three matches. You'll have a full squad after 3 ambushes in most cases. I have single handidly switched the tides of battle with an orbital and in really crazy games two. This is all with random peeps. When my corp is running (and they are sick) we typically crush it. Taking out 1 tank, an LAV, multiple uplinks and 8 clones in one shot of an orbital (3rd game this morning before work and before working with the corp) sky rocketing my WP through the roof. After doing all of that, remember that Ambush is a nothing more than the quick game grind. If you average 6 minutes a game, 3 extra minutes for loading screen, and finding a game you are looking at about 13 games per two hours at an avg of 200k isk per battle. If you are running orbitals there is no excuse to not be at over 1k WP and in some cases over 2k WP. I stomp with an 8k ISK build daily with a team of newbs and sometimes I pick up people with their own tanks. When that happens I can av enemy tanks as support for squad tanks. You cannot be successful in ambush without a squad. Unless you come in, get to the other end of the map, Pop down multiple uplinks and wait at 0/0 or something and when others are sick of losing clones they spawn with you and hide. But is 300 WP worth it to sit for more than 5 or 6 minutes? I submit that it's not. All of that being said, I have my 0/5 or 0/7 days with 300 WP. It happens. But ambush is a grind of cluster f'n fun as far as I am concerned...now. I used to hate the tank spam but since I started doing the orbitals it doesn't bother me anymore at all. My ambush fit is: Basic MIN-Logi 2 militia enhanced armor 2 militia shields Drop uplink basic scanner militia locus grenade rail rifle About 8 to 10k depending if I add a advanced uplink or not for extra WP or a nanite injector but I still take off a LS or HS module. EDIT: I believe that an auto squading method should be implemented allowing a round robin for leader. Orbitals are single handedly one of the most powerful tools in the game. Not shooting for them or using them or not squading up "because I'm new and don't know how" is not an excuse. Again, I almost ALWAYS invite current players into a squad. I also do it as a charity to new players. Other times I get some sick players who stomp others AND we get the orbital.
I've done this before. It's a decent stop gap measure, but problems still exist. The concern that I've had with this setup is that as people join my squad, it could potentially be weighted heavier in the 'match maker' to put us against other squads that are more organized/skilled.
I use my skinweave logi suit for a similar setup for ambush when I'm feeling cheap. Quite effective. I swap the scanner for a nanohive since I'm usually solo. I also use my exile instead of the rail rifle for a totally BPO setup.
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Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
74
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Posted - 2014.01.22 02:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:Why do people always complain about pubstomping? if you dont like it just leave the match.
We complain, because it isn't always obvious that you're outclassed. After a couple of deaths, you realize how pointless the match is, and you don't want to sacrifice what SP and ISK you've earned. Plus, it's just crappy to have to leave. |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
74
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 02:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Denn Maell wrote:What I don't understand isGǪwhy all the metrics and math in matchmaking? If we don't have the player base for matchmaking to work, why use it? When we know it cannot work.
Maybe I'm just frustrated but at this point I'd settle for a simple squad sorter so that q-synced squads can't role together against dewberries.
This would be a pretty common sense measure that would clean up a lot of problem cases. |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
76
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Posted - 2014.01.22 08:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:Match making is purely pathetic, close to non existant. This here is soley the reason why the game will not ever gather more players( a decent amount), It's just over the top. You get out of academy, with starter fits and a few MLT fits, and still no understanding of how the different weapons, roles, vehicles, gamemodes and dust514 in general works. Right into a battle with players with upto 3x the HP and a lot more damage, not only that but you have a MLT AR, they have prototype rail rifles, combat rifles, madrugars. You cannot hide because their radars scanning NON stop. If you do manage to hurt one he is sat in the middle of prototype triage hive, with a core fuckassed rep tool on him. This is not a learning curve, this is a tedius process that in reality you will have to go through for months before starting to really stand upto these players. Telling the people that the game needs to survive (new players/new customers) to get gud, HTFU, this is New Eden or even find a squad does not cut it. It's a major major downfall in the game design and in a way its the games death sentance. After all this is a game on the PS3, there are plenty of other shooters that offer a game that can be enjoyed from the get go, offer much fairer battles, and does not punish people for being new. People playing the playstation have much less patience for bullshit games. The gaming community I hail from is 6000 members strong across various platforms, after reviews of the game came out only about 10 actually tried it, after they got to review it themselves only 1 survived. Meanwhile other games you have to pay for are jam packed with members.
In my opinion this situation and game modes must become a priority. Matchmaking, needs to be there!!! PVE, will help entertain newer players and retain current players and bring back some of those who left. Game modes, there are only 2, deathmatch and hack. Skirmish and dom are the same thing in reality, FW is skirm, PC is skirm. No matter what you try in this game there is only 2 game modes.
Despite the grammar of the above. This is pretty much spot on. |
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