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deezy dabest
Warpoint Sharx
167
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Posted - 2014.01.20 12:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Maybe instead of making the academy a cap on warpoints throwing newbies who have played 12 matches at 100 points or 4 matches thrown into the arena for slaughter it should be a cap on average points per battle.
For example:
4 matches that the average goes above 300 points (M1 + M2 + M3 + M4 / 4 = x) if x > 300 no more academy.
This should be a rolling average always based on your last 4 matches so that it can be calculated at the end of each match and the appropriate flag can be placed.
Hopefully this would allow players to grow at their own pace before being thrown into the gauntlet that is the current matchmaking system. |
Lorhak Gannarsein
1251
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Posted - 2014.01.20 12:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
That would be kind of cool. Maybe 500pts, though, considering the comparative SP totals and skill at DUST.
After all, we kind of want to make sure they know how to hack things...
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
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cranium79
ZionTCD Public Disorder.
88
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 14:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
the cap for the academy should be 25,000 WP. after that you should have the OPTION of joining regular matches, up until you reach 50,000 WP. then you are out of the academy completely. back in the day, the cap was like 10,000 WP or something like that.
the problem is, people with alts complained that things were taking too long. i say that the true noobs need this high of a WP cap to exit the academy. by then, they should have at least some experience. to those who create alts, you created the alt knowing what needs to be done. reach your 25K and be done with it. it should be easier to hit that mark since you know what you are doing.
it's kind of funny though. i entered this game during closed beta, when there was no academy and everyone was getting 4X sp and isk. everywhere i looked, it was full of proto-gear (the sagaris and such) and missle turrets were OP. i had like a 0.25 KDR for the first month... lol. didn't bother me, and after a couple of full respecs... i was doing ok. |
deezy dabest
Warpoint Sharx
167
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Posted - 2014.01.20 20:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
I can not speak for CCP but I feel like their concern is people farming the academy with alts. ( this is the only reason I see for such a low cap).
The problem is breaking some cap does not really dictate your ability. A newb can come in and play 24 matches at 50 points and get kicked. That person is clearly not ready for being thrown in against protos or even advanced.
No amount of tuts make up for experience which is what the new players are not getting. |
cranium79
ZionTCD Public Disorder.
89
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Posted - 2014.01.20 21:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
even if ccp is concerned about academy farming, the point is, noobs will not be up against proto gear, or possibly even advanced gear. it would be militia and standard gear mostly.
skill is skill, and knowing the game is knowing the game. at least they will have a chance against similar gear instead of no chance against advanced and proto gear with ingame knowledge.
as i've said above, the vets creating alts will tear through the academy anyway. right now, they can, in 1 game, get the 1200 WP necessary to get out of the academy anyway.
unless, ccp does some kind of "vets only" academy, or allows vets to bypass the academy all together. i don't know if this is possible, or, it might be by choice... the vet has to select the "vet" academy over the noob academy type thing. i'm sure more vets would choose the vet academy, but you will still have some sadists that enjoy killing noobs. who knows. |
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens League of Infamy
351
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
The cap is 1,200 WP? Jeez... So killing 24 people gets you out of the academy? So killing 2 dudes in an LAV with a Forge Gun is more than 1/9th of the points necessary to get out of the academy?
That is insane. That isn't even enough time for people to understand the map layout. Even if they were used to FPS and knew how to run and gun, they still likely didn't get a chance to understand how to play the game before fighting people with 50 times more SP. |
Waiyu Ren
Immortal Guides
6
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
What is the cap currently, 1200? 1500?
In my very first game, i went 1v1 with another new guy, with something like 2/4 and 300 wp. After 2 similar games i was kicked to PUB. A month later i built an alt because i'd completely stuffed up my SP as i didn't know what i was doing.... First (and only) match: 15/5 1600wp, before being kicked back into PUB.
I'd gotten better obviously, but as a result i was looking at starting fresh slightly weaker stat-wise.
Pointless story, i scrapped the alt and went back to my original character, bad sp allocation and all.
I would kind of like the cap to be SP based personally, rather than WP. |
Ryder Azorria
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
837
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
SP based would be bad - unless you only allow passive SP on characters that have left the academy, which would also be bad.
However a WP cap based on a rolling average actually sounds pretty good, +1.
EDIT: The numbers probably need tweaking, such as the sample size and the cap value - but the idea is sound. |
Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
614
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
cranium79 wrote:the cap for the academy should be 25,000 WP. after that you should have the OPTION of joining regular matches, up until you reach 50,000 WP. then you are out of the academy completely. back in the day, the cap was like 10,000 WP or something like that.
the problem is, people with alts complained that things were taking too long. i say that the true noobs need this high of a WP cap to exit the academy. by then, they should have at least some experience. to those who create alts, you created the alt knowing what needs to be done. reach your 25K and be done with it. it should be easier to hit that mark since you know what you are doing.
it's kind of funny though. i entered this game during closed beta, when there was no academy and everyone was getting 4X sp and isk. everywhere i looked, it was full of proto-gear (the sagaris and surya) and missle turrets were OP. i had like a 0.25 KDR for the first month... lol. didn't bother me, and after a couple of full respecs... i was doing ok. This! I love this idea!
And I've never had a respec. Just the vehicle one. |
Waiyu Ren
Immortal Guides
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 22:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Maybe more in-depth than just an either-or might be better...
At entry level WP is earned solely by kills and hacks, so maybe an equation that works out a players ability/rate of improvement?
Edit: For example, it took me quite a long time to get used to the the scale in Dust. Every other shooter i've played has been more CQC orientated. Maps were smaller, other characters on screen were larger etc. If the cap were based on more variables, better players would adapt and advance faster, while perma-noobs like me would probably still be in the academy where we belong. :p
The problem is figuring out how to track those variables... Straight K/D, WP isn't enough. |
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cranium79
ZionTCD Public Disorder.
90
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 23:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:cranium79 wrote:the cap for the academy should be 25,000 WP. after that you should have the OPTION of joining regular matches, up until you reach 50,000 WP. then you are out of the academy completely. back in the day, the cap was like 10,000 WP or something like that.
the problem is, people with alts complained that things were taking too long. i say that the true noobs need this high of a WP cap to exit the academy. by then, they should have at least some experience. to those who create alts, you created the alt knowing what needs to be done. reach your 25K and be done with it. it should be easier to hit that mark since you know what you are doing.
it's kind of funny though. i entered this game during closed beta, when there was no academy and everyone was getting 4X sp and isk. everywhere i looked, it was full of proto-gear (the sagaris and surya) and missle turrets were OP. i had like a 0.25 KDR for the first month... lol. didn't bother me, and after a couple of full respecs... i was doing ok. This! I love this idea! And I've never had a respec. Just the vehicle one.
my respec came because the new build was released. at that time everyone got a respec. then we were all on an even playing field, at least gear wise. back when i joined, you could only play on weekends (2 days a week). the server was down the other 5. we got 4x sp and isk. dropships would crush your head every time you spawned and we only had 1 suit type per frame (1 heavy, 1 scout, 1 assault, 1 logi). then we got A and B versions of some suits (the assault A&B ended up being the cal and gal versions.). i think i've been full respec'd like 4-5 times since i've joined. i did not take any of the optional repecs since the last full respec. i think that was chromosome, or one right after that, if i remember correctly. |
Lorhak Gannarsein
1253
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 23:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
cranium79 wrote:Joel II X wrote:cranium79 wrote:the cap for the academy should be 25,000 WP. after that you should have the OPTION of joining regular matches, up until you reach 50,000 WP. then you are out of the academy completely. back in the day, the cap was like 10,000 WP or something like that.
the problem is, people with alts complained that things were taking too long. i say that the true noobs need this high of a WP cap to exit the academy. by then, they should have at least some experience. to those who create alts, you created the alt knowing what needs to be done. reach your 25K and be done with it. it should be easier to hit that mark since you know what you are doing.
it's kind of funny though. i entered this game during closed beta, when there was no academy and everyone was getting 4X sp and isk. everywhere i looked, it was full of proto-gear (the sagaris and surya) and missle turrets were OP. i had like a 0.25 KDR for the first month... lol. didn't bother me, and after a couple of full respecs... i was doing ok. This! I love this idea! And I've never had a respec. Just the vehicle one. my respec came because the new build was released. at that time everyone got a respec. then we were all on an even playing field, at least gear wise. back when i joined, you could only play on weekends (2 days a week). the server was down the other 5. we got 4x sp and isk. dropships would crush your head every time you spawned and we only had 1 suit type per frame (1 heavy, 1 scout, 1 assault, 1 logi). then we got A and B versions of some suits (the assault A&B ended up being the cal and gal versions.). i think i've been full respec'd like 4-5 times since i've joined. i did not take any of the optional repecs since the last full respec. i think that was chromosome, or one right after that, if i remember correctly.
Mostly resets; let's not go starting any forum fires...
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
|
cranium79
ZionTCD Public Disorder.
90
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 23:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Waiyu Ren wrote:What is the cap currently, 1200? 1500?
In my very first game, i went 1v1 with another new guy, with something like 2/4 and 300 wp. After 2 similar games i was kicked to PUB. A month later i built an alt because i'd completely stuffed up my SP as i didn't know what i was doing.... First (and only) match: 15/5 1600wp, before being kicked back into PUB.
I'd gotten better obviously, but as a result i was looking at starting fresh slightly weaker stat-wise.
Pointless story, i scrapped the alt and went back to my original character, bad sp allocation and all.
I would kind of like the cap to be SP based personally, rather than WP.
this is what i'm talking about. when i first started, i messed up my sp allocation horribly. i didn't know what i was doing. thankfully, there were the full respecs that occurred during the EARLY CLOSED BETA days.
another idea that just occurred to me with this post is, after the 50K WP that kick you out of the academy completely, you should get all of your sp unallocated so you can undo all of your mistakes (this is a training program after all). you should get stuck with the gear you bought though. ISK comes pretty easy, and later on you can sell it when the open market comes.
the sp based system wouldn't work because of passive and augmentations. WP are only earned when you kill, hack, supply, spawn support, or heal. this requires in game play that gives you experience. |
VikingCheech iBUN
Third Rock From The Sun INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
7
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
make the acadamy go on till 50k wp. i can do the acadamy in 1 battle. after 5 battles a newbie is thrown into battle with me and everyone else who has 24mil lifetime sp and most of them ragequit and play a different game after they get slaughtered. |
Waiyu Ren
Immortal Guides
7
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 23:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
cranium79 wrote: the sp based system wouldn't work because of passive and augmentations. WP are only earned when you kill, hack, supply, spawn support, or heal. this requires in game play that gives you experience.
Yeah, it's too simple, like the cap is now. But then i started wondering how SP was calculated, and whether the stats used to calculate it could be bent to another purpose. :)
I was kind of thinking all players should get the option of a free respec at 2.5 or 5mil sp anyway... Eve players get a couple baked in at character creation and can earn/buy more. Lucky buggers. |
Lorhak Gannarsein
1254
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 23:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Waiyu Ren wrote:cranium79 wrote: the sp based system wouldn't work because of passive and augmentations. WP are only earned when you kill, hack, supply, spawn support, or heal. this requires in game play that gives you experience.
Yeah, it's too simple, like the cap is now. But then i started wondering how SP was calculated, and whether the stats used to calculate it could be bent to another purpose. :) I was kind of thinking all players should get the option of a free respec at 2.5 or 5mil sp anyway... Eve players get a couple baked in at character creation and can earn/buy more. Lucky buggers.
They get remaps, which influence future SP gain, but from all the defensiveness about remaps, I highly doubt they're given a respec.
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
|
Waiyu Ren
Immortal Guides
7
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 23:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ah, i was under the impression "remap" was to "respec", what "burro" is to "donkey"...
My bad. :) |
deezy dabest
Warpoint Sharx
169
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 15:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thanks for the feedback guys.
I made a similar thread in feedback / requests so it has a better chance of getting in front of a blue.
Academy Fix in Feedback |
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