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ISK Sinks and why it has been proven a failure to curb protostomping

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Zerus Ni'Kator Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2014.01.20 12:28:00 - [1] - Quote So I have seen a few threads recently discussing the NPE,matchmaking and protostomping and have been alarmed by a few of the responses, some people seem to think a player driven market would reduce protostomping because it would be an ISK sink but this idea is extremely flawed and has been proven to not work ! 1. FW was introduced with the idea of being an ISK sink and alot of people claimed that this would reduce protostomping as most people would be fighting in FW .. this has not been the case, in fact protostomping is actually worse in pubgames now than it was pre 1.7 2. The people most guilty of protostomping new players are the very corps district locking in PC farming ISK so that they can run proto 24/7 and they aren't the type of people who are going to stop protostomping new players if they have a choice .. it pains me to say it but the only way to actually deal with the problem is to forcibly prevent them from being able to do it 3. Player driven market is NOT the solution .. try fixing matchmaking or introducing non Proto gear gamemodes ISK sinks are actually detrimental to new players because they can't afford to run higher end gear to counter the proto use from the more experienced players .. this creates a bigger gap between them and leads to them being stomped harder
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 30	Posted - 2014.01.20 12:30:00 - [2] - Quote Zerus Ni'Kator wrote: So I have seen a few threads recently discussing the NPE,matchmaking and protostomping and have been alarmed by a few of the responses, some people seem to think a player driven market would reduce protostomping because it would be an ISK sink but this idea is extremely flawed and has been proven to not work ! 1. FW was introduced with the idea of being an ISK sink and alot of people claimed that this would reduce protostomping as most people would be fighting in FW .. this has not been the case, in fact protostomping is actually worse in pubgames now than it was pre 1.7 2. The people most guilty of protostomping new players are the very corps district locking in PC farming ISK so that they can run proto 24/7 and they aren't the type of people who are going to stop protostomping new players if they have a choice .. it pains me to say it but the only way to actually deal with the problem is to forcibly prevent them from being able to do it 3. Player driven market is NOT the solution .. try fixing matchmaking or introducing non Proto gear gamemodes ISK sinks are actually detrimental to new players because they can't afford to run higher end gear to counter the proto use from the more experienced players .. this creates a bigger gap between them and leads to them being stomped harder Ever since 1.6 isk payouts have been ******
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 4370	Posted - 2014.01.20 12:33:00 - [3] - Quote people have far too much isk for isk sinks to work. its been proven time and time again that isk sinks just don't work. you can either increase the isk costs till the richest can barely run them and price everyone else out, just to have the same problem appear down the line as the rich get richer or you make it so cheap that everyone can run it equally. or, or you can just remove the whole "i spent more isk on it so it should be better philosophy" that is proto gear and tiercide everything. Lv 4 forum warrior Bringer of Bacon Knight of AMV's
Lorhak Gannarsein 1251	Posted - 2014.01.20 12:36:00 - [4] - Quote NK Scout wrote: Zerus Ni'Kator wrote: So I have seen a few threads recently discussing the NPE,matchmaking and protostomping and have been alarmed by a few of the responses, some people seem to think a player driven market would reduce protostomping because it would be an ISK sink but this idea is extremely flawed and has been proven to not work ! 1. FW was introduced with the idea of being an ISK sink and alot of people claimed that this would reduce protostomping as most people would be fighting in FW .. this has not been the case, in fact protostomping is actually worse in pubgames now than it was pre 1.7 2. The people most guilty of protostomping new players are the very corps district locking in PC farming ISK so that they can run proto 24/7 and they aren't the type of people who are going to stop protostomping new players if they have a choice .. it pains me to say it but the only way to actually deal with the problem is to forcibly prevent them from being able to do it 3. Player driven market is NOT the solution .. try fixing matchmaking or introducing non Proto gear gamemodes ISK sinks are actually detrimental to new players because they can't afford to run higher end gear to counter the proto use from the more experienced players .. this creates a bigger gap between them and leads to them being stomped harder Ever since 1.6 isk payouts have been ****** I've been getting higher payouts than ever before; maybe you just need to get good? Top the kill board and win for decent ISKs. When you're in a decent squad, you're not playing against the reds. Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters. Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 30	Posted - 2014.01.20 12:37:00 - [5] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: NK Scout wrote: Zerus Ni'Kator wrote: So I have seen a few threads recently discussing the NPE,matchmaking and protostomping and have been alarmed by a few of the responses, some people seem to think a player driven market would reduce protostomping because it would be an ISK sink but this idea is extremely flawed and has been proven to not work ! 1. FW was introduced with the idea of being an ISK sink and alot of people claimed that this would reduce protostomping as most people would be fighting in FW .. this has not been the case, in fact protostomping is actually worse in pubgames now than it was pre 1.7 2. The people most guilty of protostomping new players are the very corps district locking in PC farming ISK so that they can run proto 24/7 and they aren't the type of people who are going to stop protostomping new players if they have a choice .. it pains me to say it but the only way to actually deal with the problem is to forcibly prevent them from being able to do it 3. Player driven market is NOT the solution .. try fixing matchmaking or introducing non Proto gear gamemodes ISK sinks are actually detrimental to new players because they can't afford to run higher end gear to counter the proto use from the more experienced players .. this creates a bigger gap between them and leads to them being stomped harder Ever since 1.6 isk payouts have been ****** I've been getting higher payouts than ever before; maybe you just need to get good? Top the kill board and win for decent ISKs. When you're in a decent squad, you're not playing against the reds. 2000 wp 3000wp Tops the boards 250k or rarely 300k 1500 wp 179k isk 2220 wp 200k isk
Beld Errmon The Southern Legion 1245	Posted - 2014.01.20 12:54:00 - [6] - Quote I've got a set amount of isk I don't let my account drop below and stay profitable by generally running advanced gear, but even that eats up a lot of the profits, i've seen ppl running protosuits rack up 14 losses and just keep on dropping more of them, i dunno how they do it but I don't think every protobear out there has vast PC funds to call for. My isk sink is the dropships I like to fly, no doubt my profit/loss ratio is horrendous, they should give us a profit/loss ratio leaderboard.
The Baby Shaker Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 86	Posted - 2014.01.20 12:59:00 - [7] - Quote The better the gear the other team runs the better the payout I'm too drunk to taste this chicken
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 31	Posted - 2014.01.20 13:00:00 - [8] - Quote The Baby Shaker wrote: The better the gear the other team runs the better the payout Lol yea right I get ****** payout no matter what the enemy is running if I get good wp.
Yagihige Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 541	Posted - 2014.01.20 13:07:00 - [9] - Quote I don't know what's the problem with tiering battles. There's a perfectly good way to introduce difficulty levels without dividing the playerbase. em ta kool t'nod
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 2096	Posted - 2014.01.20 13:15:00 - [10] - Quote people think of the LORE and the SANDBOX. In eve you have to grind months of training before you can remotely do something. And the same is in dust the new players are beeing thrown infront of the lions cave and if they dont run fast enough they are beeing slaughtered. This is how eve works and the devs thought that this is aswell a good way how dust should work. And isk sinks are only working when people are willing to put isk into them. When people dont want to play FW its their choice. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun

Zerus Ni'Kator Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 106	Posted - 2014.01.20 13:24:00 - [11] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: people think of the LORE and the SANDBOX. In eve you have to grind months of training before you can remotely do something. And the same is in dust the new players are beeing thrown infront of the lions cave and if they dont run fast enough they are beeing slaughtered. This is how eve works and the devs thought that this is aswell a good way how dust should work. And isk sinks are only working when people are willing to put isk into them. When people dont want to play FW its their choice. In Eve you can go mining or take part in missions you don;t have to go up against the seasoned pro's in fleets and Titans in a frigate unless you choose to do so .. PVP isn't the only option available ... All new players can do in DUST is get slaughtered by the vets .. no one will want to play a game where they get slaughtered constantly .. you need to at least ease them into it or give them other things to do .. I've mailed countless people who've gone 1-10 + in starter corps saying .. don't give up it will get better .. try squadding up or doing X Y Z .. sadly I end up never seeing them again :(
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2895	Posted - 2014.01.20 13:31:00 - [12] - Quote There's an isk sink? No.
steadyhand amarr Bragian Order Amarr Empire 2168	Posted - 2014.01.20 13:45:00 - [13] - Quote Dust at its core is not behavioring like EvE. In EvE you get to choose your level of risk. Want to make easy isk and slowly build up. High sec mining it is. Fancy a quick chance at a good pay day low sec it is but someone could ruin your day better bring friends. Wana make **** tons of isk but risk lossing it all Null sec for you. Dust join pub match with no forword knowlage of your payout or possable return. No choice of you fight and punished if u quit out a match thats clearly stacked. Any attempt if using better gear will generate a loss but dont use said gear you will get rofol stomped and make a loss anyway. As u can see dust currently has no working elements of core EvE mentality. PvE and a player market are both needed before u can even bother to look at NPE because right now their is no framework for them to enjoyablely build a balance and assets that would enable them to fight more skilled players "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
demonkiller 12 G.L.O.R.Y Public Disorder. 354	Posted - 2014.01.20 14:18:00 - [14] - Quote Zerus Ni'Kator wrote: So I have seen a few threads recently discussing the NPE,matchmaking and protostomping and have been alarmed by a few of the responses, some people seem to think a player driven market would reduce protostomping because it would be an ISK sink but this idea is extremely flawed and has been proven to not work ! 1. FW was introduced with the idea of being an ISK sink and alot of people claimed that this would reduce protostomping as most people would be fighting in FW .. this has not been the case, in fact protostomping is actually worse in pubgames now than it was pre 1.7 2. The people most guilty of protostomping new players are the very corps district locking in PC farming ISK so that they can run proto 24/7 and they aren't the type of people who are going to stop protostomping new players if they have a choice .. it pains me to say it but the only way to actually deal with the problem is to forcibly prevent them from being able to do it 3. Player driven market is NOT the solution .. try fixing matchmaking or introducing non Proto gear gamemodes ISK sinks are actually detrimental to new players because they can't afford to run higher end gear to counter the proto use from the more experienced players .. this creates a bigger gap between them and leads to them being stomped harder you seem to forget we are in EVE and that EVE is not forgiving you know how it is, HTFU why should someone handicap themselves to give you a better chance to kill them? LOL EVE vet: hey bro you new? EVE newbie: yes just started EVE vet: ok lemme go get a **** bucket so we can have a fair fight and you can kill me and my billions of isk worth of implants the people who stick to this game are the ones that understand this and they dont need your pity, stop being a care bear
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1177	Posted - 2014.01.20 15:05:00 - [15] - Quote demonkiller 12 wrote: Zerus Ni'Kator wrote: So I have seen a few threads recently discussing the NPE,matchmaking and protostomping and have been alarmed by a few of the responses, some people seem to think a player driven market would reduce protostomping because it would be an ISK sink but this idea is extremely flawed and has been proven to not work ! 1. FW was introduced with the idea of being an ISK sink and alot of people claimed that this would reduce protostomping as most people would be fighting in FW .. this has not been the case, in fact protostomping is actually worse in pubgames now than it was pre 1.7 2. The people most guilty of protostomping new players are the very corps district locking in PC farming ISK so that they can run proto 24/7 and they aren't the type of people who are going to stop protostomping new players if they have a choice .. it pains me to say it but the only way to actually deal with the problem is to forcibly prevent them from being able to do it 3. Player driven market is NOT the solution .. try fixing matchmaking or introducing non Proto gear gamemodes ISK sinks are actually detrimental to new players because they can't afford to run higher end gear to counter the proto use from the more experienced players .. this creates a bigger gap between them and leads to them being stomped harder you seem to forget we are in EVE and that EVE is not forgiving you know how it is, HTFU why should someone handicap themselves to give you a better chance to kill them? LOL EVE vet: hey bro you new? EVE newbie: yes just started EVE vet: ok lemme go get a **** bucket so we can have a fair fight and you can kill me and my billions of isk worth of implants the people who stick to this game are the ones that understand this and they dont need your pity, stop being a care bear I'm gonna assume you aren't genuinely an idiot and can see the out come of a poor new player environment on the player base of a game. "God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout. CLOSED BETA VET


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