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PEW JACKSON
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
188
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Posted - 2014.01.20 05:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
The changes to the HMG have made it a scary CQC weapon 
Problem is, it being barely out of range in every engagement. I think it could use a range buff without anything being broken.
(I only know the STD hmg's current optimal being 30m)
Requested optimal ranges.
STD > 45m
ADV > 50m
PRO > 55m
OFFICER >60m
Give heavies a bit more range, and I believe we'll stop seeing so many fatties with light weapons.
Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
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PEW JACKSON
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
192
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Posted - 2014.01.21 08:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:So yea, I'm in love with my HMG ever since they fixed it. And I've got prof 5 on it, so I mean maybe I'm biased, but uh...no. Hell no. The HMG is (to me at least) exactly where it's supposed to be right now. It's meant to be a close-range weapon; that's it's whole shtick. I really hate to be "this guy", but have you tried changing up your tactics a bit? Instead of firing at your target when they're too far away, use whatever cover's available to close the distance as quickly as possible, then only fire when you know you can either damage or at least scare them.
I'm a scout who used the LR for months on end before it got outclassed in 1.7.
I'm pretty good at judging range. The problem is the HMG not having enough.
Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
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PEW JACKSON
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
192
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Posted - 2014.01.21 08:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
X7 lion wrote:PEW JACKSON wrote:Summ Dude wrote:So yea, I'm in love with my HMG ever since they fixed it. And I've got prof 5 on it, so I mean maybe I'm biased, but uh...no. Hell no. The HMG is (to me at least) exactly where it's supposed to be right now. It's meant to be a close-range weapon; that's it's whole shtick. I really hate to be "this guy", but have you tried changing up your tactics a bit? Instead of firing at your target when they're too far away, use whatever cover's available to close the distance as quickly as possible, then only fire when you know you can either damage or at least scare them. I'm a scout who used the LR for months on end before it got outclassed in 1.7. I'm pretty good at judging range. The problem is the HMG not having enough. your thinking small picture if the range gets increased then you will be droped by HMG's always heavy would be the new flavor of the month wont happen.
I could shoot the comment right back at you. Get rid of the Assault HMG and give the basic HMG the new ranges proposed.
Every engagement I've lost has ended up in the guy I shot at running backwards.
If a heavy catches you in its sights, you shouldn't be able to get away without killing him.
Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
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PEW JACKSON
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
192
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 09:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kal Kronos wrote:Get ******* real lmfao.
Appreciate the helpful input.
Bye now.
Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
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PEW JACKSON
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
192
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Posted - 2014.01.21 11:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:The HMG just got fixed, heavies recently got 300+ more HP, and you are getting huge resistance bonuses in 1.8 that translate to "roughly 200 more HP at prototype"
The HMG is fine. Heavy suits are fine. You'll be fine.
So it's fine having people back up and shoot you down? If the HMG was really fine, you wouldn't see an abundance of heavies with light weapons.
If the HMG stays the same with a lack of other heavy weapons, 1.8 will be flooded with heavies +200-300 more ehp w/ light weapons.
Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
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PEW JACKSON
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
192
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 11:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:PEW JACKSON wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:The HMG just got fixed, heavies recently got 300+ more HP, and you are getting huge resistance bonuses in 1.8 that translate to "roughly 200 more HP at prototype"
The HMG is fine. Heavy suits are fine. You'll be fine. So it's fine having people back up and shoot you down? If the HMG was really fine, you wouldn't see an abundance of heavies with light weapons. If the HMG stays the same with a lack of other heavy weapons, 1.8 will be flooded with heavies +200-300 more ehp w/ light weapons. The problem isn't with HMGs not being good enough. The rifles are too good. They don't allow any niche weapons to function as well as they should. I'm not seeing many heavies using light weapons BTW. I'm seeing a lot of people in MLT and STD heavy suits using light weapons. They are FotM chasers, not heavies.
Those wannabe heavies would be drawn to the HMG if they saw it compete with the rifles beyond 40m.
When does an m16 beat a 30mm gatling gun in firepower?
That's the problem here.
Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
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PEW JACKSON
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
192
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Posted - 2014.01.21 14:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ghermard-ol Dizeriois wrote:PEW JACKSON wrote:When does an m16 beat a 30mm gatling gun in firepower?
That's the problem here. Wrong question. When does an M16 beat a 30mm Gatling gun in accuracy?
Accuracy doesn't matter if the rounds hold more killing power over 3x the rifle's especially when there's roughly an 8 to 1 bullet ratio or whatever that insane number is.
Fizzer94 wrote:
Maybe. I think you might be giving the AR brigade too much credit.
Don't try to use the 'real life argument'. If this game behaved like real life, Laser Rifles weould be the best weapon in the game, by a lot... Infinite range and light speed projectiles trumps everything else.
If the HMG reached out to 60m, the Blaster Rifle and Combat Rifle would be absolutely useless. Then, Heavy+HMG would be FotM, and then nerfed.
Considering the HMG is projectile based and the AR being plasma, if the game followed EVE lore like the fanatics would like then I see no problem having the Matari Heavy weapon be on par with their rifles.
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Ghermard-ol Dizeriois wrote:When does an M16 beat a 30mm Gatling gun in accuracy? The correct answer is "never". Larger projectiles have more inertia, meaning better accuracy at long range. Also, 30mm? That's autocannon caliber right there, not machine gun caliber.
So is it really ridiculous in asking for more range on a weapon that clearly packs bigger heavier rounds than rifle counterparts? I didn't ask for the HMG to outclass them in range, just to compete better.
Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
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PEW JACKSON
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
192
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Posted - 2014.01.21 15:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
GET ATMESON wrote:
No range just nerfd the RR crazy range a little.
Why not? So it's fine for another player to essentially back up a few steps then gun you down?
I've gone up against Logi slayers and assaults well within 30m, only to have them run back a little then shoot me.
Fizzer94 wrote:
Actually, the HMG has smaller rounds. They only do, what, 17 damage? The Combat Rifle rounds do 32 damage. Even SMG rounds are bigger than HMG rounds with 21 damage. More damage generally means bigger rounds.
Now that's definitely a load of crap.
If those weapons fire bigger rounds, then why is the HMG so massive?
Wouldn't the name alone state the functionality of the weapon? Heavy Machine Gun?
If the bullets are so small, then why should the HMG even be classified as a heavy weapon?
Hell, by your logic Assaults and scouts should easily be able to wield HMGs since their rounds are tiny making the gun big yet light. Almost like comparing a VW beetle to a F-1 car. The Beetle is smaller in length and possibly width, but it still weighs a lot more than the F-1.
Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
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PEW JACKSON
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
193
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Posted - 2014.01.21 21:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:PEW JACKSON wrote:I'm a scout who used the LR for months on end before it got outclassed in 1.7.
I'm pretty good at judging range. The problem is the HMG not having enough. Um, I'm not sure what using the LR has to do with using the HMG properly, at all.
LR relies mostly on the user being very aware of the range at which enemies are engaged.
That's how it's relevant.
Summ Dude wrote:
Again, are you sure it's impossible that maybe that's just a you thing? Generally, when I engage a target with my HMG with the intent to finish them and not just suppress, they usually won't be able to escape me. Like I said, try not to really go for the kill until you know you're close enough to get it. Also, a lot of this sounds kinda like you just want the heavies to be OP... And projectiles do have longer range than plasma, but only relative to weapon classes. The Plasma Rifle is an Assault Rifle, and the HMG is a heavy anti-infantry weapon.
I've talked with some of the heavies that now use light weapons, and the common reason behind it being what I've said. Not word for word but the general gist being, every other frame can back up out of HMG range and kill the heavy.
" The Plasma Rifle is an Assault Rifle, and the HMG is a heavy anti-infantry weapon."
Why should that very same heavy anti-infantry weapon be outclassed by something that is a light anti-infantry weapon.
Summ Dude wrote:
Um, yea dude, seriously. It's a heavy weapon because it's massive, using that giant rotating multi-barrel design; it's more or less a minigun. Small bullets, just a metric ****-ton of them, being fired super duper fast.
Mini guns don't fire anything "mini". They tend to fire 5.56mm all the way up to 40mm rounds.
They fire the same rounds as the M16 7-9 times faster though.
I still don't see why 10m added onto the HMG is so bad.
Scrap the Assault variant and give the basic one the Assault's range.
Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
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PEW JACKSON
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
193
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 22:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:
Because the HMG is balanced already. Do you know why nobody is using HMGs? Because Rifles are easier to fit.
No, because the rifles beat lone heavy without a dedicated logi.
This is why Heavies are picking up the rifles. Can't beat em? Join em!
To make my request simple.
Get rid of the Assault HMG.
Give the Burst & regular HMGs the Assault's range.
Now heavies have range & dmg while still being a CQC brawler.
Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
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PEW JACKSON
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
193
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 22:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:
I don't think the Plasma Rifle outclasses the HMG at all right now. Sure it did pre-hotfix. But now, no way. It definitely outranges the HMG, sure. Which is fine, because it's an Assault Rifle. They're meant to have moderate range as a weapon class. But in the HMG'S optimal (where it's niche value resides) the AR doesn't even come close. I mean, I don't wanna say that you and the heavies out there are using light weapons because they're bad at the game per say, but maybe you're just not the best at specifically running the HMG. It's not really meant to be used like an Assault Rifle. In my experience, at least.
Again my gripe is people's ability to back up out of HMG fire.
I can engage someone at 15-20m and they'll be able to run out of the weapon's range due to dispersion
and how laughable the HMG's optimal range is to begin with.
If anyone with a rifle engages a heavy, all they have to do is stand outside of 30m and the Heavy's weapon is useless along with their HP since mobility isn't one of fat suit's strong points.
BTW I don't use light weapons on a heavy, I have more than enough scout & assault suits for that.
If I did we wouldn't be discussing HMG problems. I'd be using rifles in it's place.
Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
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PEW JACKSON
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
194
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Posted - 2014.01.23 09:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:
You are comparing a vehicle mounted round to a rifle. HMG is more like a rotary barrel SAW if anything. It chews people up close, at range it fails. Its niche is defending objectives, especially those in buildings. Its fine.
The point I'm trying to make. The HMG is too easy to avoid, out gun, and easier to have a bad time with.
AR + Heavy
CR + Heavy
SCR + Heavy
RR + Heavy
All beat a HMG Heavy outside 30m, and 70% end up beating the HMG inside 30m with strafing.
I've been in enough PC, pub, and FW to know what I'm talking about.
As it stands rite now, the HMG only has a fear factor inside 30m. That's absolute crap when the answer to a heavy is, backup and fire.
Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
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