DUST Search - Fixing passive and active scanning

ugg reset wrote:

As A scout I take advantage of the false sense of security that scanner provide. Do scanners need tweaked? of corse they do. Over hauled and reworked form the ground up? probably not.

1) There should be a percentage of a successful scan (Active and Passive)
no thanks. simple counter would be to add multiple scanner to rase your odds. just no I really don't like the roll the dice idea imo.

2) Scanners should send out pulses Active and Passive)
No thanks, try to imagine how a group of red dots would look all bunched togeather on the 3D scan. blinking chevrons everywhere making it imposable to track a single target. maybe that's what you're going for but I say no thanks.

Though If I could build on your Idea. what if the more time the red was scanned the more detailed the information became?
there would be three tiers of being scaned. the 1st tier would just put a red dot on your mini map, the second tier after longer exposer would add the direction indicator to the map and a full scan would add the the 3D chevron to your Hud.

3) Increase Cool down time (Active)
I'm not good at pulling number out of thin air so ill leave this one up to CCP's discresition *shudders in terror.

4) Add ammo to scanners (Active)
I use EnergizerGäó

5) Remove that you automatically show up at 0m (Passive)
since there is no sense of touch in this game i think ill disagree.

6) I gana skip this one since I have no Idea what you're talking about.

7) Spotting enemies (reticule turning red, stats are shown) should depend on your scans (Passive)
What you described already happens in game when people spawn. I don't like it.

8) meh, I'd give it a shot.

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AmlSeb The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 14	Posted - 2014.01.19 14:10:00 - [1] - Quote It-¦s way too easy to scan people down at the moment. Most scanners have a cool down as long as they show the position and thus people are just dancing around with the scanner and lighting up everything. And the passive scans are broken as well. 1) There should be a percentage of a successful scan (Active and Passive) If scan precision and profile are the same there-¦s a 50% chance that the scan is successful. The more they differ the higher/lower the percentage gets. So for example if you-¦re in a heavy with 65 scan profile and are scanned by a scout with precision of about 35 the chance that you-¦re scanned will be almost 100%. Vice versa if you-¦re in a scout and are scanned by a heavy the chance is almost 0%. Though the percentage should never reach 100% and 0% so you can-¦t completely hide and it-¦s still possible to be unseen as a heavy. 2) Scanners should send out pulses Active and Passive) Instead of sending a constant beam the scanners should send out a certain number of pulses total and per second. E.g. The basic one should send out like 8 pulses per second and 24 pulses total whereas the flux sends out only 5 per second and 20 in total that have higher range, lower precision and a smaller angle. Each pulse should count as a scan and has a percentage to be successful. Thus the more pulses hit a target, the higher is the chance that you scan it. If you are dancing around doing a 360-¦ turn while scanning you cover a larger area but the scan is less successful. The time a scanned target shows up on the map should depend on this too. Each pulse that is successful adds another x second/s to the time the target is shown. So again do 360-¦ turn increase the scanned area but reduce the total success. Passive scanning should work like this as well but at a lower pulse rate per second depending on the class. Logis, Scouts > Sentinel, Basic Suits > Assaults, Commandos 3) Increase Cool down time (Active) The cool down time of scanners should be longer than the time enemies show up. So the cool down time should be about as long as the enemy is shown if all pulses are successful. 4) Add ammo to scanners (Active) Simply add ammo to the scanners with like 4 scans per battery and 5 batteries in total. 5) Remove that you automatically show up at 0m (Passive) This is especially annoying for scouts. We sneak up on someone and in the moment we strike we are at 0 m and thus show up for the whole enemy team in that area. If his scans are not successful you should not show up. 6) Rework the frontal scan (Passive) For everyone who does not know what i mean, here-¦s a quick explanation: There are two types of passive scan distances in dust: A 360-¦ scan and a frontal scan, that has an increased range but only a certain angle. If you ADS this range is expanded by the zoom factor and the angle should be reduced by it. The latter one does not work that properly at the moment. The angle of that cone should depend on the class of your suit. Scout: 30-¦ Assault, Commando: 40-¦ Basic Suits: 60-¦ Logis, Sentinel: 90-¦ The frontal scan range should depend on the original scan range and the angle of the cone as the frontal scan is pretty much a more focused version of the 360-¦ scan. Thus it should follow this formula Range=(360-¦regular scan range)/(degree of the cone2)+original scan range. When ADS the range is further increased by the zoom factor while the angle is reduced by it. The resulting ranges for the scan cone are (after 1.8 changes) Scout: 130 m Assault, Commando: 55 m Basic Light Suits: 70 m Basic Medium and Heavy Suits: 40 m Logis, Sentinels: 30 m With this Scouts can light up targets almost across the map, Assaults and Commandos can easily make out targets while Logis cover the close surrounding area and Sentinels can also easily cover the area they are defending. 7) Spotting enemies (reticule turning red, stats are shown) should depend on your scans (Passive) At the moment you simply have to move your cross hair over someone and you see if he-¦s friend or foe and his stats. He only has to be within your frontal scan range. Though this should depend on your scans as well. Allies-¦ stats should show up once they are within your scan range whereas enemies-¦ stats should only show up if at least on scan was successful. Same with the cross hairs: They should only turn red if he was successfully scanned. So if a sniper has seen you he can not see if you-¦re an ally or enemy until one of his or someone else-¦s scan is successful. 8) Add a passive scan amplifier as equipment This would simply be a small laser marker that has x3/x6 zoom and increases your scans per second. Thus you can scan an enemy faster and further away as well as lighting him up longer but as you have almost a pin point scan cone you can only scan a few targets at a time. Cheers, Aml
Sky Kage Immortal Guides 632	Posted - 2014.01.19 14:28:00 - [2] - Quote nice nice, +1 I die alot AND have fun... Who knew? a¦á_a¦á
Twelve Guage Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 42	Posted - 2014.01.19 14:40:00 - [3] - Quote Yes yes and f ucking yes. Damn shame I can't like this more.
Reiki Jubo Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 304	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:42:00 - [4] - Quote this is very good. Scanner cooldowns should be no less than 30 secs. Limited amount of charge is good too.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1648	Posted - 2014.01.19 18:31:00 - [5] - Quote Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes I just can't show you how much I love this idea. "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 87	Posted - 2014.01.19 18:43:00 - [6] - Quote -1 Unofficial D.A.R.K.L.E.G.I.O.N team mascot.
AmlSeb The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 18	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:36:00 - [7] - Quote Spartan MK420 wrote: -1 Why -?
Skullmiser Vulcansu Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 19	Posted - 2014.01.20 01:25:00 - [8] - Quote I don't like the idea that you have a percentage chance to scan someone. I don't like the proposed statistics for passive scanning: It seems like you've given scout suits tunnel vision, and you've given Logistics terrible scanning range, when Logistics suits are better at scanning than assault suits presently. Maybe I misinterpreted.
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 226	Posted - 2014.01.20 02:10:00 - [9] - Quote just no, except for eight but then we need sooooo much more ewar so that is a given. I would rather see scanners work as they do, but reduce in scan res if you do not keep your scanner on the same spot. basicly (time scanning a give spot) / (time to complete scan) = percentage of rated scan resolution for given spot. so if you sit and spin with a high end scanner you will pick up heavies but now much else.
ugg reset Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 443	Posted - 2014.01.20 05:18:00 - [10] - Quote As someone skilling into Gal scout I can confirm that Passive scanning isn't broken. there are three types of scanning: Active, passive and Line of sight and all but LoS follow the same rules when it come to avoiding them. If the suits scan profile is GëÑ the scan prosision of the viewer then it will show up on the radar. active scanning is straight forward:Point the equipment, click, obtain WP, get knifed by damped scout, repeat. Line of sight scanning: 1. can you see their drop suit? 2. Are they within 80m? if yes, then it is now scanned. Passive scanning works the same way as line of sight scanning in that it only works in your 60-¦ cone of sight. Its range and precision are base on the suit type. The main difference is that it can see through walls just like an active scanner. A good example of when you use passive scanning is when you see an enemy on the other side of a CRU/ Depot or around a corner. On a faction Gal logi I've gotten my passive scanning out to 60m and believe me it is a sight to behold. Thr33 is the magic number.

ugg reset Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 443	Posted - 2014.01.20 05:58:00 - [11] - Quote As A scout I take advantage of the false sense of security that scanner provide. Do scanners need tweaked? of corse they do. Over hauled and reworked form the ground up? probably not. 1) There should be a percentage of a successful scan (Active and Passive) no thanks. simple counter would be to add multiple scanner to rase your odds. just no I really don't like the roll the dice idea imo. 2) Scanners should send out pulses Active and Passive) No thanks, try to imagine how a group of red dots would look all bunched togeather on the 3D scan. blinking chevrons everywhere making it imposable to track a single target. maybe that's what you're going for but I say no thanks. Though If I could build on your Idea. what if the more time the red was scanned the more detailed the information became? there would be three tiers of being scaned. the 1st tier would just put a red dot on your mini map, the second tier after longer exposer would add the direction indicator to the map and a full scan would add the the 3D chevron to your Hud. 3) Increase Cool down time (Active) I'm not good at pulling number out of thin air so ill leave this one up to CCP's discresition *shudders in terror. 4) Add ammo to scanners (Active) I use EnergizerGäó 5) Remove that you automatically show up at 0m (Passive) since there is no sense of touch in this game i think ill disagree. 6) I gana skip this one since I have no Idea what you're talking about. 7) Spotting enemies (reticule turning red, stats are shown) should depend on your scans (Passive) What you described already happens in game when people spawn. I don't like it. 8) meh, I'd give it a shot. Thr33 is the magic number.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 536	Posted - 2014.01.20 09:52:00 - [12] - Quote There is some nice ideas here but you are overly punishing passive scanners; that is both skill and mod heavy to run anything of real value. Also in part of it you are simply talking about LOS spotting, it has nothing to do with either type of scanning. Hiding behind a wall you cannot be seen. Fixing active scanners is the way to go, no more 360 spins with perma scans. Give them the cone with which they originally were designed . You want to beat passive scanning...get dampening. It's a simple counter. If your style desires to go fairly unseen then choosing heavy or assault probably wasn't the best choice...should have gone scout. I'm hoping you just want more of that fog of war style and are not one of those who thinks you should be able to run pure tank/dmg mods and be invisible.
AmlSeb The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 19	Posted - 2014.01.20 15:28:00 - [13] - Quote ugg reset wrote: As A scout I take advantage of the false sense of security that scanner provide. Do scanners need tweaked? of corse they do. Over hauled and reworked form the ground up? probably not. 1) There should be a percentage of a successful scan (Active and Passive) no thanks. simple counter would be to add multiple scanner to rase your odds. just no I really don't like the roll the dice idea imo. 2) Scanners should send out pulses Active and Passive) No thanks, try to imagine how a group of red dots would look all bunched togeather on the 3D scan. blinking chevrons everywhere making it imposable to track a single target. maybe that's what you're going for but I say no thanks. Though If I could build on your Idea. what if the more time the red was scanned the more detailed the information became? there would be three tiers of being scaned. the 1st tier would just put a red dot on your mini map, the second tier after longer exposer would add the direction indicator to the map and a full scan would add the the 3D chevron to your Hud. 3) Increase Cool down time (Active) I'm not good at pulling number out of thin air so ill leave this one up to CCP's discresition *shudders in terror. 4) Add ammo to scanners (Active) I use EnergizerGäó 5) Remove that you automatically show up at 0m (Passive) since there is no sense of touch in this game i think ill disagree. 6) I gana skip this one since I have no Idea what you're talking about. 7) Spotting enemies (reticule turning red, stats are shown) should depend on your scans (Passive) What you described already happens in game when people spawn. I don't like it. 8) meh, I'd give it a shot. 1) It should still depend on Scan Profile and Precision. The reason for a percentage should be that the Suit still has a profile that can be detected. If you hum something really silently still maybe 1 out of ten persons will hear you. Working with absolute numbers is just unrealistic nonsense here, you can-¦t say there is something or there is not, you have to think with relativity. 2) You misunderstood me. There would be no blinking. just think of it like the old Radar and Sonar systems with the green round display where that bar circles around with the difference that the position is shown longer. Example: 1st pulse is unsuccessful so nothing happens 2nd pulse is successful so the target shows up for 1 sec or 2 While it-¦s shown the 3rd pulse is successful again = 1 or 2 more seconds are added 4th pulse is unsuccessful so no time is added etc. This all takes part within a few seconds. If scan pulse is successful -> target shows up for 1 or 2 more seconds if not -> nothing happens 5) Your argument is kinda nonsense. You thought you-¦d disagree because there is no sense of touch in this game. What? The reason because this should not be there is because there is no touch in the game! 6) It could be that this is simply a bug of the LoS spotting. But it could be intended by CCP as well. No idea Fact is: Enemies also show up behind obstacles when you are facing them also when they are far beyond your scan radius. If it-¦s a bug forget what I wrote. Though should these ranges be used for LoS spotting (without going through obstacles) If you don-¦t get what I meant, here a summary. The frontal scan would simply be a more focused version of the regular passive scan that is concentrated in a small cone in front of you. 7) Again does your reply make no sense. If you don-¦t get it: I-¦m talking about LoS spotting here. You should only be spotted if at least one scan was successful and you thus show up on the minimap.
AmlSeb The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 19	Posted - 2014.01.20 15:35:00 - [14] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: There is some nice ideas here but you are overly punishing passive scanners; that is both skill and mod heavy to run anything of real value. Also in part of it you are simply talking about LOS spotting, it has nothing to do with either type of scanning. Hiding behind a wall you cannot be seen. Fixing active scanners is the way to go, no more 360 spins with perma scans. Give them the cone with which they originally were designed . You want to beat passive scanning...get dampening. It's a simple counter. If your style desires to go fairly unseen then choosing heavy or assault probably wasn't the best choice...should have gone scout. I'm hoping you just want more of that fog of war style and are not one of those who thinks you should be able to run pure tank/dmg mods and be invisible. 1) I run Proto Gallente Scout 2) Where am I punishing passive scanners? 3) Well, as said in my answer on post above am I not really sure if that-¦s a bug or really a hidden function. Quote: Fact is: Enemies also show up behind obstacles when you are facing them also when they are far beyond your scan radius. If it-¦s a bug forget what I wrote. Though should these ranges be used for LoS spotting (without going through obstacles)


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