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Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
336
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Posted - 2014.01.19 06:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Not completely as we all make mistakes. The current system allows a player to jump out of their vehicle call in a new vehicle and recall their old used up one in around 10seconds. If modules were not time based I would see no problem for this however a good tank pilot knows how to abuse this mechanic. I propose a change. Supply Depots are available back at spawn locations and should be made invincible. A tank must be within 40m proximity of a supply depot for the recall feature to work. If you call in a vehicle the recall feature is temporarily deactivated for 20 seconds. This will prevent tankers from activating all their modules and jumping out and recalling. Then laughing as they save thier 600k. This will also slow tank spam as people only use them because tanks are only effective until modules run out Ambushes have no supply depots. A good tanker with SP invested to skills that reduced cool down actually see that investment shine. |
Jason Pearson
4023
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Posted - 2014.01.19 06:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Doesn't sound like a good idea, except being unable to recall when calling another vehicle in.
Rather, make it so you cannot recall a vehicle until all damage has ceased hitting the vehicle for 10 seconds and also disable the recall function on vehicles that have their modules on cooldown.
Fixed.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
336
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Posted - 2014.01.19 06:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
I debated both of those. But if your not taking damage why recall. If your modules are on cooldown and you retreat back to base you easily allow an enemy to camp the spawn with a railgun. If you stay and fight while on cool down you die. So if you retreat to ground spawn and recall and call in a new tank the chances of being tank capped at not as high. You still have to retreat though or suffer through having no hardener. |
Squagga
The State Protectorate
16
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Radar R4D-47 wrote:I debated both of those. But if your not taking damage why recall. If your modules are on cooldown and you retreat back to base you easily allow an enemy to camp the spawn with a railgun. If you stay and fight while on cool down you die. So if you retreat to ground spawn and recall and call in a new tank the chances of being tank capped at not as high. You still have to retreat though or suffer through having no hardener.
I do understand it is unfair that people are saving their tanks/vehicles when it's cheating the system. I do however consider the fact that I have to pay for my LAVs and appreciate being able to recall them. I also appreciate the lack of murder taxi. I think I agree with Jason Pearson. Maybe if your vehicle hasnt recieved any damage in over ten or fifteen seconds it could be recalled? I'm not sure what's a good compromise right now. But I do agree a new compromise should be made
Reloading, the silent killer.
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Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
336
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
If your lav couldn't be recalled wouldn't you use it more then point a to b. Wouldnt you attempt to protect your investment. Wouldnt you actually give it decent modules. Giving it a place on the battlefield. |
Squagga
The State Protectorate
20
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Radar R4D-47 wrote:If your lav couldn't be recalled wouldn't you use it more then point a to b. Wouldnt you attempt to protect your investment. Wouldnt you actually give it decent modules. Giving it a place on the battlefield.
I would appreciate it if the 15 second no blue dot thing applied throughout the battle as opposed to just when you call it in. Yes I would love to have my Charibdis back and drive a lot more. Btw I never ran people over. Jumped out and mowed em down with my Douvalle
Reloading, the silent killer.
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
9
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Posted - 2014.01.19 08:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
i agree with removeing recalling. too meny Tank whores use up their ammo recall and respawn then tank to get more ammo maybe if they had to sit by a supply beacon or something to get more ammo
Nanite Injectors! Nanite Injectors Everywhere!
Minmatar Logibro in training. Rusty needles anyone?
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
380
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Posted - 2014.01.19 09:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Just make it so tanks can't be recalled. Ever.
LAVs and especially dropships are used more for transport and/or making one-way trips. Wouldn't be practical to have recall them in a certain place. |
Shadow of War88
0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
153
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Posted - 2014.01.19 10:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Radar R4D-47 wrote:Not completely as we all make mistakes. The current system allows a player to jump out of their vehicle call in a new vehicle and recall their old used up one in around 10seconds. If modules were not time based I would see no problem for this however a good tank pilot knows how to abuse this mechanic. I propose a change. Supply Depots are available back at spawn locations and should be made invincible. A vehicle must be within 40m proximity of a supply depot for the recall feature to work. If you call in a vehicle the recall feature is temporarily deactivated for 20 seconds. This will prevent vehicles from activating all their modules and jumping out and recalling. Then laughing as they save their investment. This will also slow tank spam as people only use them because tanks are only effective until modules run out. Ambushes have no supply depots. A good pilot with SP invested to skills that reduced cool down actually see that investment shine. Ammo might actually become a factor for vehicles.
agreed . The only difference between a noob tanker and the veteran pilot is the duration / recharge of active modules. Scrubs get away with a bowl of lucky charms by abusing the recall feature.
Recall feature goes against all that dust stands for regarding loss and risk and reward. Dont call a tank ur not willing to lose |
Shadow of War88
0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
153
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Posted - 2014.01.19 10:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
not like CCP actually looks or considers any of this but good post |
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1602
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Posted - 2014.01.19 10:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
See the problem I have with a lot of these solutions is that I will swap out tanks on the fly to fit the situation. It's not that I'm running from being blown up, its that I had a Railgun and now I need a Blaster. I feel that hindering people from that sort of gameplay is not a good idea.
Hell sometimes I recall my tank because I need to jump out to hack something and I don't really want to leave it unlocked and undefended while go on foot. Again i'm not trying to abuse the recall feature, I'm trying to use it the way it was intended. However I don't think any of the solutions I've seen so far fix the issue and leave the proper use of recall unhindered.
The Module Cooldown system favors armor over shield, as their modules cool down faster.
The No-Damage system again favors armor, as a shield tank would have to go find a supply depot to repair its armor, or the pilot would need to hand-repair it at a much slower rate than any armor tank would.
Only being able to recall from the friendly redline completely makes it impossible for a tanker to hop out and hack something if they want to recall their vehicle before doing it.
The idea that you can only recall after not taking any damage for X-seconds is actually not bad, I think that's a fairly balanced tradeoff.
Obviously the BEST choice would be to have an actual RDV come down, pick the damn thing up, and fly off. However who knows how long till we get something like that.
1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2219
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Posted - 2014.01.19 10:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
I think its a good idea.
I know your a well known fellow vet but welcome to the discovery channel. Here's your obligatory newb proof jacket, happy hunting.
Level 2 forum warrior.
Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
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Shadow of War88
0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
155
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Posted - 2014.01.19 11:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:See the problem I have with a lot of these solutions is that I will swap out tanks on the fly to fit the situation. It's not that I'm running from being blown up, its that I had a Railgun and now I need a Blaster. I feel that hindering people from that sort of gameplay is not a good idea.
Hell sometimes I recall my tank because I need to jump out to hack something and I don't really want to leave it unlocked and undefended while go on foot. Again i'm not trying to abuse the recall feature, I'm trying to use it the way it was intended. However I don't think any of the solutions I've seen so far fix the issue and leave the proper use of recall unhindered.
The Module Cooldown system favors armor over shield, as their modules cool down faster.
The No-Damage system again favors armor, as a shield tank would have to go find a supply depot to repair its armor, or the pilot would need to hand-repair it at a much slower rate than any armor tank would.
Only being able to recall from the friendly redline completely makes it impossible for a tanker to hop out and hack something if they want to recall their vehicle before doing it.
The idea that you can only recall after not taking any damage for X-seconds is actually not bad, I think that's a fairly balanced tradeoff.
Obviously the BEST choice would be to have an actual RDV come down, pick the damn thing up, and fly off. However who knows how long till we get something like that.
recall feature equals bitc*hhh mode. Just call another tank if your first fit is not up to the task. Wtf is with CCP catering to the newbs? This is a hardcore meta game with risk vs. reward |
Jason Pearson
4026
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Posted - 2014.01.19 15:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Shadow of War88 wrote:
recall feature equals bitc*hhh mode. Just call another tank if your first fit is not up to the task. Wtf is with CCP catering to the newbs? This is a hardcore meta game with risk vs. reward
Remove changing fits at supply depots, or when you change out, you lose your fit. And then we can remove the recall feature, kthx.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1605
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Posted - 2014.01.19 17:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Shadow of War88 wrote: recall feature equals bitc*hhh mode. Just call another tank if your first fit is not up to the task. Wtf is with CCP catering to the newbs? This is a hardcore meta game with risk vs. reward
Im a noob because I needed one turret type to kill one tank, and another type to kill another? Its my fault because I'm adapting to the situation?
CCP should just remove supply depots then, just commit suicide if your first dropsuit fit is not up to the task. Sound like a stupid idea? That's because it is.
The issue is that you have a predetermined opinion about why people recall. I'm not denying the fact that many will recall under fire in order to save their tank...this is indeed an unintended abuse of the system which violates the risk reward concept. However you need to set aside your narrow viewpoint and consider for once that not everyone abuses the system. There is a certain level of utility in being able to swap your fit, both for infantry and vehicles. And yes I understand that infantry can only do it as a supply depot, but the amount of downtime infantry experience is significantly lower than vehicle recall and swap. The amount of time it takes for a vehicle to recall should be increased by actually having the RDV come physically pick it up, but the tradeoff for that increased time is the ability to do it at a place other than a supply depot.
1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
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Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
347
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Posted - 2014.01.19 17:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
I didn't say you had to return to the redline. Any supply depot can work typically a map has 2 or 3 supply depot plus the ones in the redline. I agree that jumping out to hack something is a big risk. However if you can't recall it would you jump out and hack. Its not a tankers job to hack things. That goes back to abusing game mechanics. As a DD pilot as well I abuse the hell out of the recall because I can get anywhere to recall when I'm out of ammo instead of actually using a supply depot. Along with gaining my modules back. |
Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
347
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Posted - 2014.01.19 17:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Shadow of War88 wrote: recall feature equals bitc*hhh mode. Just call another tank if your first fit is not up to the task. Wtf is with CCP catering to the newbs? This is a hardcore meta game with risk vs. reward
Im a noob because I needed one turret type to kill one tank, and another type to kill another? Its my fault because I'm adapting to the situation? CCP should just remove supply depots then, just commit suicide if your first dropsuit fit is not up to the task. Sound like a stupid idea? That's because it is. Infantry have the same issue what if you jump into a swarm fit or a sniper. You no longer need or want that suit you have to find a supply depot. At a much slower pace then a tank. Adapting to a situation should not be instant. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1605
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Posted - 2014.01.19 17:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Radar R4D-47 wrote:I didn't say you had to return to the redline. Any supply depot can work typically a map has 2 or 3 supply depot plus the ones in the redline. I agree that jumping out to hack something is a big risk. However if you can't recall it would you jump out and hack. Its not a tankers job to hack things. That goes back to abusing game mechanics. As a DD pilot as well I abuse the hell out of the recall because I can get anywhere to recall when I'm out of ammo instead of actually using a supply depot. Along with gaining my modules back.
I completely disagree with the mentality that tankers are not supposed to hack. Granted it is not ideal, but I've personally turned the tide of PC battles because I jumped out to get the job done, that in itself is risk/reward. I don't see how altering what you're doing in a battle to fit the situation is abuse? I think the proposed "You can't recall unless you've avoided damage for X-seconds" would actually be an excellent temporary fix that would address many of the actually abuses of the system that people use.
1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1605
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Posted - 2014.01.19 17:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Radar R4D-47 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Shadow of War88 wrote: recall feature equals bitc*hhh mode. Just call another tank if your first fit is not up to the task. Wtf is with CCP catering to the newbs? This is a hardcore meta game with risk vs. reward
Im a noob because I needed one turret type to kill one tank, and another type to kill another? Its my fault because I'm adapting to the situation? CCP should just remove supply depots then, just commit suicide if your first dropsuit fit is not up to the task. Sound like a stupid idea? That's because it is. Infantry have the same issue what if you jump into a swarm fit or a sniper. You no longer need or want that suit you have to find a supply depot. At a much slower pace then a tank. Adapting to a situation should not be instant.
I edited my original post
If we're going for a compromise then, I'd say Take no damage for X-seconds and vehicles can only be recalled when in the friendly redline. I think that widens the available area vehicles can be recalled but doesn't overly limit the feature.
1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
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Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
347
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Posted - 2014.01.19 17:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Then you still have redline railtanks. I've given a lot of thought into this 40m is quite a big radius. This mechanic would allow better fighting in PC. As I said there is typically a supply depot at every point so adapting isn't as hard as it sounds. a tank moves quickly so why is it so hard to wrap your head around moving your tank 10 seconds to a supply depot to recall. Yes recalling it the field makes it vulnerable yes it would take 20 seconds to get a new tank but the only reason you would get a new tank with those limitations is to switch turret type. As Intended by CCP. |
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1607
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Posted - 2014.01.19 18:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Well it sounds like we're just not going to agree due to a difference in ideologies about how this mechanic should operate. You have good suggestions, I just don't particularly agree with them.
1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
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Spartan MK420
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
87
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Posted - 2014.01.19 18:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
Radar R4D-47 wrote:Not completely as we all make mistakes. The current system allows a player to jump out of their vehicle call in a new vehicle and recall their old used up one in around 10seconds. If modules were not time based I would see no problem for this however a good tank pilot knows how to abuse this mechanic. I propose a change. Supply Depots are available back at spawn locations and should be made invincible. A vehicle must be within 40m proximity of a supply depot for the recall feature to work. If you call in a vehicle the recall feature is temporarily deactivated for 20 seconds. This will prevent vehicles from activating all their modules and jumping out and recalling. Then laughing as they save their investment. This will also slow tank spam as people only use them because tanks are only effective until modules run out. Ambushes have no supply depots. A good pilot with SP invested to skills that reduced cool down actually see that investment shine. Ammo might actually become a factor for vehicles.
or just limit each player to only being able to have 1 vehicle out on the field at a time.
this would also prevent tanks with complex mods being called in for friends :P
Unofficial D.A.R.K.L.E.G.I.O.N team mascot.
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