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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
105
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Posted - 2014.01.18 23:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Is it like, ever going to get fixed? Feels like it's been around forever. And I know I know, "But we like it!!!1!11!!" I'm just not a big fan of glitches being such a major part of gameplay. And it would be nice to see Rapid Reload actually being skilled into a bit more.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
106
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Posted - 2014.01.18 23:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:It's a part of pretty much all shooters where sprinting cancels a reload. It's there to compensate for when it LOOKS like the animation is over but it isn't, so you just went through a full reload and you try to sprint, but your clip is back to zero and you have to reload again.
That's....a pretty lazy excuse man. I'd much rather they just had their animations work correctly. Especially since it benefits different weapons differently. My HMG for example, cuts off a lot more reloading time than an AR.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
106
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Posted - 2014.01.18 23:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's a part of pretty much all shooters where sprinting cancels a reload. It's there to compensate for when it LOOKS like the animation is over but it isn't, so you just went through a full reload and you try to sprint, but your clip is back to zero and you have to reload again. That's....a pretty lazy excuse man. I'd much rather they just had their animations work correctly. Especially since it benefits different weapons differently. My HMG for example, cuts off a lot more reloading time than an AR. Actually it's perfectly valid. So many things affect it, from lag to human error. A bit of headroom is needed.
A bit, maybe. But definitely not as much as there is right now. It's cutting like 40-50% of the reload time off. Really that's pretty silly.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
106
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Posted - 2014.01.18 23:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:REload canceling is fine
Um, why, exactly?
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
107
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Posted - 2014.01.18 23:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Dexter307 wrote:REload canceling is fine Um, why, exactly? Why not? Its in every other FPS for the most part
I'm sorry, but this is a terribly blatant fallacy. Ubiquity does not equal value. Let this game have it's own values and survive on it's own merits, no?
Shayz, I can see where you're coming from. But again, why not just lower the reload times then? A glitch should never be a part of core gameplay, in my opinion. And as can be evidenced from some replies here, not everybody is even aware of it. And why would they be? It's clearly not explained or even hinted at anywhere in the game by itself.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
107
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Posted - 2014.01.18 23:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
GET ATMESON wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Is it like, ever going to get fixed? Feels like it's been around forever. And I know I know, "But we like it!!!1!11!!" I'm just not a big fan of glitches being such a major part of gameplay. And it would be nice to see Rapid Reload actually being skilled into a bit more. So your glitching in the game. Cool Cool. I never done it until now. Thanks for the heads up on this.
Yes, me and the majority of the playerbase are using this glitch. Because it's there to use.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
107
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Posted - 2014.01.19 00:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:Even if they fix it you can still cancel the reload by switching weapons.
I think you misunderstand Patrick. This doesn't just cancel the reload, it skips the entire second half of the animation, resulting in a much shorter reload time.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
107
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Posted - 2014.01.19 00:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Toby Flenderson wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's a part of pretty much all shooters where sprinting cancels a reload. It's there to compensate for when it LOOKS like the animation is over but it isn't, so you just went through a full reload and you try to sprint, but your clip is back to zero and you have to reload again. That's....a pretty lazy excuse man. I'd much rather they just had their animations work correctly. Especially since it benefits different weapons differently. My HMG for example, cuts off a lot more reloading time than an AR. Are you suggesting there be no way to cancel a reload, whether or not it completes or fails? If so I'm against this very much. You are withered rewarded or punished for trying to interrupt a reload. It's not a glitch.
Uh no. I'm against being able to skip half of the reload animation by sprinting and only sprinting.
Just for those that don't know about this: currently, while reloading, if you sprint just as your character puts the new magazine in the gun, the remainder of the reload animation will be skipped, and your gun will be reloaded.
Now I can understand being annoyed and having immersion broken by being forced to watch your character slowly reset their gun sights once the mag is already in, and I've seen some threads in the past with ideas for more comprehensive and realistic reload animations, which I'm all for. I'm just saying that I don't like this specific glitch being used as a part of core gameplay, especially when there's clearly people that don't even know about it. Glitches should never be a balancing factor, and this just increases the disparity between vets and noobs even more.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
107
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Posted - 2014.01.19 03:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:It's a normal mainstay. There's just some things you don't argue about. RCing is one of em. This isn't the first game to have it. This is among the most close-minded of statements one could make. For shame.
Kaze Eyrou wrote:You must be new here.
Back when I was a closed beta newberry, we didn't have sprint cancels or "glitches" like that. We had to wait for our HMG to reload. All. 30. Seconds. Of. It.
But then we got together and petitioned and talked to the devs about it and got it changed.
Remember, it's not a glitch, it's a feature. Is it really? Are you sure? I'd love a blue tag in here to confirm.
Knight Soiaire wrote:Without it we'd run into the glitch that reverted reloads, trust me, this is better, that was the more annoying glitches in DUST. Again, I'd really rather no glitches than some glitches. Let's try to be constructive here, people. The attitude of "well, it's good enough" isn't ever going to help this game get better.
And again, just to make sure I'm being as clear as humanly possible here, I'm not talking about reload cancels, I'm talking about reload skips. Where the animation for reloading is clearly unfinished, yet the game counts your gun as fully reloaded.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
109
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Posted - 2014.01.19 03:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:Atiim wrote:I use it all the time with my Swarm Launcher, Shotgun, and Plasma Cannon.
It's not really game-breaking though, but some could argue that it negates the purpose of having a skill that increases reload speed. So if I sprint I can reload my PLC faster? I always wind up reload cancelling etc...
The trick is to sprint just after your merc puts the new magazine in. Practice it a few times and after a while it sorta becomes second nature.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
109
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Posted - 2014.01.19 03:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Man, your thread is close minded. Just how is the cancel and skip really affecting you? How is it affecting gameplay to where it's unplayable?
Don't call my comment close minded when you are essentially creating witch hunts to argue about something that EVERYBODY can use to their advantage and it does not hurt the overall game.
Thread is stupid. How can one complain about something such as minor as this?
That's a tad hostile. I don't see how this can be compared to a witch hunt, at all, sorry. Everybody that knows about it can use this, but as this thread has already demonstrated, not everyone does. The game does nothing to tell players, so fresh newberries would have no way of knowing. In that regard, I believe it hurts the game overall by further increasing the gap between noobs and vets (as I stated before).
I'm not saying it's a major problem or anything, just wanted to know if the devs had any thoughts about it for the future. I don't see how my asking is really a bad thing.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
109
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Posted - 2014.01.19 03:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Summ Dude wrote:el OPERATOR wrote:Atiim wrote:I use it all the time with my Swarm Launcher, Shotgun, and Plasma Cannon.
It's not really game-breaking though, but some could argue that it negates the purpose of having a skill that increases reload speed. So if I sprint I can reload my PLC faster? I always wind up reload cancelling etc... The trick is to sprint just after your merc puts the new magazine in. Practice it a few times and after a while it sorta becomes second nature. If its such a problem, then why are you trying to teach someone how to do it? Should you not being exposing such a "game breaking exploit" as such?
Were you...paying attention? My biggest problem with this is that not everyone is aware of it's existence. I would much rather that every player know every facet of the core gameplay, this only seems fair. And I'll ask you to please cite where I used the term "game breaking".
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
109
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Posted - 2014.01.19 03:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:It's really not a problem though...
It's common sense that once you put a clip into the weapon, the weapon should be finished reloading. Any extra animation is just for realism.
I think that the change needs to be that the reload bar should finish right at the same time that the clip is inserted. You should also be able to aim/fire as soon as that happens to cancel the rest of the animation.
This would show the player that the reload is finished, even if the animation doesn't say so.
I'm 100% behind all of this. Nothing wrong with a game making sense.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
109
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Posted - 2014.01.19 03:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
trollface dot jpg wrote:I love how all of these scrubs think this is a glitch. It's not a glitch, it's a gameplay mechanic. If you are good at timing it right you can cut down on your reload speed before you sprint off to the next firefight. Also: Summ Dude wrote:A bit, maybe. But definitely not as much as there is right now. It's cutting like 40-50% of the reload time off. Really that's pretty silly. That's a ridiculous overstatement. It cut's off around the last 10-20% of the reload animation (depending on the animation), allowing you to get moving or get back into the fight faster. One more thing: Summ Dude wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's a part of pretty much all shooters where sprinting cancels a reload. It's there to compensate for when it LOOKS like the animation is over but it isn't, so you just went through a full reload and you try to sprint, but your clip is back to zero and you have to reload again. That's....a pretty lazy excuse man. I'd much rather they just had their animations work correctly. Especially since it benefits different weapons differently. My HMG for example, cuts off a lot more reloading time than an AR. It's not just the animation. It's a bonus for players who stay aware. Your animation includes all kinds of things, but back before the reload-skip was implemented you had to wait until your weapon was fully reloaded and in it's natural position again before sprinting or preforming a melee. Meaning that even though you had already replaced the clip, had done whatever fancy clip pat or what have you, and your weapon was on it's way back to it's normal hipfire position but you happened to start sprinting a nanosecond before it was there, your gun reset back to it's clip capacity before you reloaded. The reload skip basically allows you to skip the aesthetic portion of the reload animation there only for show and not important to weapon functionality. This allows them to avoid the aforementioned issues as well as give people who can time it properly a cut to their reload time. Lastly, the reload speed skill is important regardless of the reload-skip animation. Anything that get's you shooting again faster is worth the points, especially on weapons with longer reload animations.
I don't know, it just kinda looks and feels a lot like a glitch to me. Like clearly the animation just gets cut off. But, like Shayz said above, if they wanna just stop the animation when the clip is in, that would make perfect sense. Would look better and help with immersion.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
111
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Posted - 2014.01.19 04:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:If it's a feature, it's certainly not an advertised mechanic. I never knew about it, nor have I ever heard anyone mention you could. If you can direct me to the thread where the devs list useful glitches for players to use assuming they visit the forums to see it, that'd be great.
And they call me snarky.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
111
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Posted - 2014.01.19 04:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:Michael Arck wrote:It is not a glitch. Ok, fine. Show me where the players got the devs to add it and they approve of it then. Or, show me where the feature is documented so that new players know you can cancel an animation. Because I'm sure you wouldn't expect them to try it just because other games have that feature. That's like assuming playing 'X' game is a prerequisite for Dust.
Hopefully now people can better understand what I meant by closed-minded.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
125
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
For those who are unfamiliar, I'll reiterate: If, while reloading, you sprint as soon as your character finishes putting the new magazine in the gun, you will skip the rest of the reload animation, and your gun will count as being reloaded. So you skip the end of that animation, saving what could be valuable time. Not a reload cancel, but actually a reload animation skip. Go give it a few whirls, it's actually pretty simple.
Freya Tegley wrote:Is there a tutorial on this in-game somewhere? I've never seen it in pop-ups or anything like that.
Unfortunately, no, as it may or may not be intentional. I'm still holding to the point that it looks and feels like a glitch, and whether or not some players like it, it shouldn't be a required part of core gameplay.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
125
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Grand Master Kubo wrote:Reload cancelling is in a lot of games. Personally, I think it's kinda cool because little things like this separates the good players from the great players. In a world where a person can be skillful at video games, things like reload cancelling and afterlife remote detonations make player that much better although they might not be intended by devs. The devs already fixed other things like the walls that had no collision so you could walk right through them or the sprint cancel on scanners.
- Kubo
You act as though this maneuver is at all hard to pull off. It's really not.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
125
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Commander Tuna wrote:I can't believe people are making a big deal outta this. It probably is a glitch however it is not game breaking and anyone can do it.
Who's making a big deal out of it? I just asked for some Dev clarification on whether or not it's intentional and if it's here to stay. Yes, everyone can do it. As long as they're aware of it's existence. Which, as anyone who read through this thread knows, does not include everyone.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
130
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:This is NOT a gltich, its in so many different shooters BF4 even expanded on it by letting you cancel in the middle of a reload and finishing after you stop sprinting Ex. Put mag in, sprint, stop sprinting, bull bolt on gun or whatever to finish reload.
There was a thread a while back on "progressive reloading", which if I recall basically described exactly this. It makes perfect sense, and I'd love to see it in Dust at some point. I don't really expect to anytime soon though.
Baal Omniscient wrote:Do you noobs really have to get all butthurt about not us not consistently updating every new player who plays Dust about the basic functions in the majority of FPS games? Guess what, you can throw grenades too! And if you press the "x" button on the DS3, YOU CAN JUMP! Just because you weren't here when all of the forum conversation happened doesn't make you entitled to call everything you didn't see put into the game personally or everything not announced directly by a Dev a glitch. I suppose that makes inertial dampners glitches too since they never announced it as a feature in the forums, right? And I guess it's a glitch that they took the installations menu off of the marketplace menu since the Dev's never announced it? And when they never announced missiles becoming totally OP in Codex? And I guess every nina nerf/buff throughout the history of Dust is a glitch as well I suppose too? Learn to play on your own, it's not the community's job to do it for you. Just because you are uninformed doesn't mean everything you don't know about or haven't seen announced is a glitch.
Careful with the fallacies chief. Firstly, I'm not a noob, and I'm not butthurt; I'm just calling attention to something that doesn't totally make sense. You can look up the controls in "System Operation" on the Neocom, so grenade throwing and jumping actually are clearly documented. But more to the point, it's not the lack of official documentation that leads me to calling this a glitch, it's just watching the animation that does. There's clearly a fully programmed reloading animation, and you can see you ammo filling up the bars as your character reloads, being completely full when done. But by performing this, both of these are suddenly cut off and just considered full. It looks and feels like a glitch, that's all.
Dexter307 wrote:Get good Just becuase you dont understand basic FPS mechanics dosent mean it should be removed Did you know grenades can be cooked?! But not everyone might know this so we should remove it
Virtually any actual valid point you could have potentially made is entirely negated by uttering such an immature boy's club phrase as "get good". But, anyway: as has been said before, it makes no difference what mechanics other games employ. This is Dust, not other games, and knowledge of other games' mechanics shouldn't be a prerequisite to playing this one. I did know grenades can be cooked, because there's that nice whistling countdown sound it makes when holding the grenade. So again, clearly not a glitch, the game is telling me about one of it's mechanics.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
131
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Posted - 2014.01.19 23:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Get good Just becuase you dont understand basic FPS mechanics dosent mean it should be removed Did you know grenades can be cooked?! But not everyone might know this so we should remove it
Virtually any actual valid point you could have potentially made is entirely negated by uttering such an immature boy's club phrase as "get good". But, anyway: as has been said before, it makes no difference what mechanics other games employ. This is Dust, not other games, and knowledge of other games' mechanics shouldn't be a prerequisite to playing this one. I did know grenades can be cooked, because there's that nice whistling countdown sound it makes when holding the grenade. So again, clearly not a glitch, the game is telling me about one of it's mechanics.[/quote]
Dexter307 wrote:The grenade makes a noise letting you know it can be cooked Magazine goes in the gun letting you know you dont have to wait for the rest of the animation.
But the animation is skipped....so....what?
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
137
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Posted - 2014.01.20 06:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Borne Velvalor wrote:Once the bullets are loaded, I'm done. Why wait full, agonizing seconds to position the gun again? I do it instinctively in all shooters. For realism the animation needs to continue but in reality once the bullets are loaded, you could start shooting if a target came around a corner. Wouldn't feel right to me without being able to cancel. Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:I'm not sure I'm understanding this.
I start reloading. I sprint to cancel my reload. And then what? Canceling my reload means I have to reload again. How is it actually resulting in me reloading faster? If you do it too early, yes, you have to reload again. If you time it right you cut off the extraneous bits of the animation (ie. lowering the gun into position) and can fire immediately. The reload is finished before the animation is, which makes some logical sense. If they made it so you do a little dance after ever reload, you'd be pissed if you died during the dance animation. That's how I feel like when I die because I didn't reload cancel. CoD Wiki wrote:Cancelling a reload by momentarily sprinting, quickly switching weapons or meleeing before the animation is completed (but the gun is reloaded) to resume firing quicker.
But then why does [only][/i] sprinting do this? Why even bother programming in the rest of the animation? If the devs want to make the animation stop once the clip is in, that's fine. Or like I said, have the animation start logically from where you left off. But we have right now just looks and feels weird.
I don't care at all what other games do. This isn't other games. And as Zheylon has said, if it's going to be a part of the game, make it known to everyone.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
138
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Posted - 2014.01.20 07:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Borne Velvalor wrote:Once the bullets are loaded, I'm done. Why wait full, agonizing seconds to position the gun again? I do it instinctively in all shooters. For realism the animation needs to continue but in reality once the bullets are loaded, you could start shooting if a target came around a corner. Wouldn't feel right to me without being able to cancel. Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:I'm not sure I'm understanding this.
I start reloading. I sprint to cancel my reload. And then what? Canceling my reload means I have to reload again. How is it actually resulting in me reloading faster? If you do it too early, yes, you have to reload again. If you time it right you cut off the extraneous bits of the animation (ie. lowering the gun into position) and can fire immediately. The reload is finished before the animation is, which makes some logical sense. If they made it so you do a little dance after ever reload, you'd be pissed if you died during the dance animation. That's how I feel like when I die because I didn't reload cancel. CoD Wiki wrote:Cancelling a reload by momentarily sprinting, quickly switching weapons or meleeing before the animation is completed (but the gun is reloaded) to resume firing quicker. But then why does only sprinting do this? Why even bother programming in the rest of the animation? If the devs want to make the animation stop once the clip is in, that's fine. Or like I said, have the animation start logically from where you left off. But we have right now just looks and feels weird. I don't care at all what other games do. This isn't other games. And as Zheylon has said, if it's going to be a part of the game, make it known to everyone. It feels more realistic to me. When the mag is in you shouldnt have to put another in just because you sprint.
You....didn't actually read what I said, did you?
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
139
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Posted - 2014.01.20 07:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Dexter307 wrote:Summ Dude wrote:
But then why does only sprinting do this? Why even bother programming in the rest of the animation? If the devs want to make the animation stop once the clip is in, that's fine. Or like I said, have the animation start logically from where you left off. But we have right now just looks and feels weird.
I don't care at all what other games do. This isn't other games. And as Zheylon has said, if it's going to be a part of the game, make it known to everyone.
It feels more realistic to me. When the mag is in you shouldnt have to put another in just because you sprint. You....didn't actually read what I said, did you? I did, and then i repllied
No, clearly you didn't. Because I just advocated for a progressive reloading system, where it picks up where you left off. So you wouldn't have to put a new mag in after you already did that. So....yea.
Rei Shepard wrote:Sometimes i feel like i am the only person in a shooter who doesnt run FOTM's and doesnt use Glitches to get ahead of the competition...while everyone else gltches their n*ts off and uses every cheap way to get their kills...
Whether or not this is even a glitch is apparently a matter of debate. I'd still love that blue tag...
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
146
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Posted - 2014.01.20 21:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
Borne Velvalor wrote:Agreed. Just saying I wouldn't like it to be removed. I'd prefer if all actions, including shooting, did this. Considering nothing is explained, I'm not sure where they'd explain it other than a random snippet on the loading screen which no one will read, though.
I can get behind that. I've only ever dabbled in GoW, but the reload "minigame" in that was kinda interesting. And it just added another small level of depth to the moment-to-moment gameplay.
I mean by biggest problem with the lack of info provided is, like I said, it's only hurting the already poor NPE of Dust (if only marginally). There's clearly players who have never even heard of this, and I really can't blame them. I just feel like all the players of a game should be aloud to know it's base rules.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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