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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1378
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Posted - 2014.01.18 20:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Wow. I admire your bravery. It takes truly testicular magnificence to say your favorite weapon shouldn't even be usable on the suit that you use it on.
I have to disagree however. The Plasma Cannon doesn't belong in the Heavy Class. The position of Gallente Heavy weapon should go to some sort of Flame(Plasma)thrower. The Amarr Heavy weapon should be the Sheild-based Heavy AV weapon.
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1378
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Posted - 2014.01.18 20:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:The Amarr Heavy weapon should be the Sheild-based Heavy AV weapon. What does this mean? That the Amarr Heavy weapon,whatever that may be, ought to be a primarily AV weapon, much like the Forge Gun is primarily AV.
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1378
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Posted - 2014.01.18 20:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:Wow. I admire your bravery. I have to disagree however. The Plasma Cannon doesn't belong in the Heavy Class. The position of Gallente Heavy weapon should go to some sort of Flame(Plasma)thrower. The Amarr Heavy weapon should be the Sheild-based Heavy AV weapon. The needed code and animation assets to make uch a weapon would be heavy on the hands of CCP. They need to get the game balanced, as they see it, before making any new mechanics as the one you have mentioned. Remember that there will always be room for two sets of Light and heavy weapon which are categorized in Anti-infantry (your idea) and Anti-vehicle (my idea with the PLC) I like your idea but, like I said, this post is intended for AV in which case they still have room to make the weapon that you visualize. I don't think it will be anytime soon that Heavies will get 8 Weapons. 2-3 years at best. I would rather see them get their proper weapons rather than shoehorn the Plasma Cannon into their suits. The Plasma Cannon doesn't even look like a heavy weapon. No more like a heavy weapon than Swarm Launchers do, at least.
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1380
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Posted - 2014.01.18 21:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Okay. Back to the topic at hand then. Sorry for derailing
How do we balance the Plasma Cannon? The way I see it, so long as it always has a long reload, is single fire, and the projectile flies in an arc; it won't be OP against infantry. It honestly doesn't need any more drawbacks, it already has more than any other weapon in the game(this is another reason I think putting it on heavy frames wouldn't be right). We could however, just tweak some of its stats to make it more favorable against vehicles, and less favorable against Infantry. Lowering its Splash, and increasing it's Direct Damage would work, and is probably the best option if we put any faith into Occam's Razor . Another solution would be to increase its projectile speed, decrease it's direct damage, and give it a strong damage bonus against vehicles. I think this would be a bit more reinforcing of its roles than the other option, but is also a bit harder to balance.
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1381
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Posted - 2014.01.18 21:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Denn Maell wrote:Personally, I Think that either the PLC needs some kind of Vehicle Lockon(like swarms) or extend the splash damage to a decent Flux Nade. It won't be OP against infantry because of its 1 shot clip and massive reload time (and then a charge up). Plasma is supposed to be moderately better against shields (an anti-shield AV is something we're missing).
I suppose the changes I'm suggesting would make the PLC more of a mortar system than a shoulder mounted RPG (as it is apparently designed to be). Changing it to a mortar system would also benefit from some kind of range finding UI. That is too different. We need to retain some semblance of the current weapon... it has a small but dedicated group of users. Ignoring them isn't an option at this point...
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1381
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Posted - 2014.01.18 21:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:Okay. Back to the topic at hand then. Sorry for derailing
How do we balance the Plasma Cannon? The way I see it, so long as it always has a long reload, is single fire, and the projectile flies in an arc; it won't be OP against infantry. It honestly doesn't need any more drawbacks, it already has more than any other weapon in the game(this is another reason I think putting it on heavy frames wouldn't be right). We could however, just tweak some of its stats to make it more favorable against vehicles, and less favorable against Infantry. Lowering its Splash, and increasing it's Direct Damage would work, and is probably the best option if we put any faith into Occam's Razor . Another solution would be to increase its projectile speed, decrease it's direct damage, and give it a strong damage bonus against vehicles. I think this would be a bit more reinforcing of its roles than the other option, but is also a bit harder to balance. I agree in a sense that increasing direct damage would benefit the PLC greatly. On the other hand increasing the damage to the levels necessary to make the power vs difficulty of use viable leave a big chunk of balance issues unattended. Having that much power on a scout suit that can move very quickly around the match will have the vehicle community crying for a nerf and the cycle of nerf buff, nerf buff will start. As a PLC user, making the weapon easier to use is never an option. Dumbing it down so it can become the next FOTM is not the answer and the complexity and difficulty of use should remain the same. You have to remember that after a certain point, increasing its direct damage has no affect on infantry, because it will always be a OHK(which isn't unbalanced, considering the difficulty of direct hits). Giving it comparable DPS to prenerf Swarms(perhaps a bit more,to compensate for skill requirements) would allow it to successfully be used as an AV weapon, but its AP uses would remain unaffected.
Right now, the DPS for Plasma Cannons is about 200. This is far too low to be useful as an AV weapon. If we want AV level DPS, we need to give it a significant buff to direct damage. It may sound extreme, but about 3000 direct damage is what would be needed to gain enough DPS. You have to remember, 3000 direct damage is no better at killing infantry than 1500 damage is, because both are OHK regardless. This dramatic increase in direct damage would only affect Vehicles, which is its intended role.
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1381
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Posted - 2014.01.18 21:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Fizzer94 wrote: You have to remember that after a certain point, increasing its direct damage has no affect on infantry, because it will always be a OHK(which isn't unbalanced, considering the difficulty of direct hits). Giving it comparable DPS to prenerf Swarms(perhaps a bit more,to compensate for skill requirements) would allow it to successfully be used as an AV weapon, but its AP uses would remain unaffected.
You are completely correct but he was talking about added splash radius. I think everyne agrees that direct damage needs to be buffed and splash should stay the same but it's to what extent should direct damage be buffed. Due to difficulty of use and rate of fire the plasma cannon deserves a damage increase to the same levels of the breach for gun since its very difficult to get more than one shot in a row on a vehicle that is running away. But as I said before, with the mobility of scouts, if kept in the light weaponry section, the weapon would be too powerful if not overpowered. I personally think is should do more damage than a breach FG, considering the at the FG can reach out further, and its projectile flies in a much more... favorable path. The Plasma Cannon practically requires the user to be up close and personal with HAVs if it is to be used as an AV weapon, this requires you to output a massive amount of damage, during a short period of time. Due to this, I believe the Plasma Cannon should only take 2-3 shots to dispatch an HAV. This put its TTK somewhere between 6-12 seconds, not unreasonable, considering the risk and/or skill required to get a kill.
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1381
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Posted - 2014.01.18 21:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:I'm thinking 300 dps against vehicles would be in order. With my math a normal forgegun with operation 5 runs at about 350 DPS including the reload after 4 shots. From the top of my head it deals something like 1350 damage, takes 4 seconds to charge before skills, at operation 5 gets a 25% reduction to charge-up time and takes 4 seconds to reload if I'm not mistaken. So DPS is 4*1350/(4*4*0.75+4) = 337.5 DPS.
Thus a consistent 300 dps for the PLC sounds very useful. This results in a direct damage of 1500, if the RoF is actually 5 seconds per shot as was argued above. If I remember correctly it's direct damage currently sits at about 1000 damage, so a 50% buff seems like it'd actually do something.
(300 DPS for a light weapon may sound like a lot, but then the PLC is very difficult to actually use as an AV weapon when blaster-tanks do drive-bys at over 50 km/h.)
Again, I have no idea why CCP thinks this isn't an option. At least fix it temporarily until you have better designers that can come up with a better weapon-design or something. The PLC could be made useful within 24 hours, or it could be left unattended for the next 6 months. Which shall it be? The problem with only having 300 DPS is that most Armor HAVs have at least 100 repairs per second. This puts the TTK at a staggering ~25 seconds, even without their hardeners. Dodging Blaster Rounds for 25 seconds is simply unreasonable. If a tank has two heavy repairers, and an active hardener, the TTK would jump up to ~70 seconds. That is practically impossible, you would run out of ammo before you scored a kill.
I understand Plasma Cannons aren't supposed to be great at destroying Armor Tanks, but that isn't even reasonable in any sense.
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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