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Syeven Reed
RETR0 PR0 GAMERS INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
257
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Posted - 2014.01.18 15:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Obviously removal of the red line is something that many people feel needs to get done, myself included. BUT We all have to be aware that it does serve the purpose of being a safe-haven for the team being stomped (proto or otherwise).
So my question is this, what mechanic could exist to take its place? There needs to be something for the poor blueberries! I'll make a note of all ideas to here to make it easier for CCP to take notice. Here are some I'v come up with.
+ In chrome I hear the MCC's would fly around but, all this ended up doing (I hear), was a mass camp following said MCC and a mass killing of the people falling from it.
+ Create many more spawn points, enough around the outer side of a map that is would dilute the enemy camps at each? But for this I could see you risking to many people being left out in the open, a feeding frenzy for snipers!
+ Obviously a more fairly worked matching system will be helpful, SoonGäó.
Gÿé Syeven 514
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
470
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Posted - 2014.01.18 15:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
The only thing I can think of would to build an enclosed area that is safe to it's team only with designated exits (if you've played TF2 you see these in every map), but then you wouldn't be able to call in vehicles, unless the base had a vehicle bay or something that you could use inside, and a vehicle would roll out of a doorway instead of the RDV. You'd have to have about 8 exits on every map, as well as a few obscure ones that are clearly not that visible from outside.
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
Unless you are skimming
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
863
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Posted - 2014.01.18 15:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Redlines Should be Giant Projected Shield Barriers from the Warbarges, done in a very New Eden way. So if your behind the redline you cant fire your gun through the shield, Or if your the 'Red-lin'er" you cant fire through the shields into the redline.
Then we just make it so when you leave the redline you can't re enter it. This allows the redlined team to call in vehicles(Dropships, Tanks, LaV's) Without having them picked off as the Boloc drops them. Also will allow the redlined team to generally have close to the full team on map, instead of 8 on the map and 8 respawning.. allowing a full team spawn to then push out from the redline.
It will stop Red-line snipers, Rail tanks and we could impose a 2-3 minute blanket timer for the redline. If you are in the safe area for more then that time you get kicked, stopping the rubber banding afk'ers.
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
470
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Posted - 2014.01.18 15:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Bethhy wrote:Redlines Should be Giant Projected Shield Barriers from the Warbarges, done in a very New Eden way. So if your behind the redline you cant fire your gun through the shield, Or if your the 'Red-lin'er" you cant fire through the shields into the redline.
Then we just make it so when you leave the redline you can't re enter it. This allows the redlined team to call in vehicles(Dropships, Tanks, LaV's) Without having them picked off as the Boloc drops them. Also will allow the redlined team to generally have close to the full team on map, instead of 8 on the map and 8 respawning.. allowing a full team spawn to then push out from the redline.
It will stop Red-line snipers, Rail tanks and we could impose a 2-3 minute blanket timer for the redline. If you are in the safe area for more then that time you get kicked, stopping the rubber banding afk'ers.
Translation: As soon as your team get's redlined they are picked off one by one like sitting ducks as they approach the barrier until none of them attempt to come forward anymore from sheer boredom and the entire team is kicked.
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
Unless you are skimming
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Piraten Hovnoret
Molon Labe. Public Disorder.
228
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Posted - 2014.01.18 15:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
let the mcc have a forcefield over the ground spawn
The rules of the force forcefield are
1 you can't shoot out of it 2 you can't shoot into it 3 one you leave the forcefield you can't get back in
Solves most issues At least it's better then the current redline bs
War never changes
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
1064
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Posted - 2014.01.18 16:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Syeven Reed wrote:Obviously removal of the red line is something that many people feel needs to get done, myself included. BUT We all have to be aware that it does serve the purpose of being a safe-haven for the team being stomped (proto or otherwise).
So my question is this, what mechanic could exist to take its place? There needs to be something for the poor blueberries! I'll make a note of all ideas to here to make it easier for CCP to take notice. Here are some I'v come up with.
+ In chrome I hear the MCC's would fly around but, all this ended up doing (I hear), was a mass camp following said MCC and a mass killing of the people falling from it.
+ Create many more spawn points, enough around the outer side of a map that is would dilute the enemy camps at each? But for this I could see you risking to many people being left out in the open, a feeding frenzy for snipers!
+ Obviously a more fairly worked matching system will be helpful, SoonGäó.
A burm blocking the LoS from the redline and then another hill blocking the rear starting areas.
Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
482
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Posted - 2014.01.21 01:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Piraten Hovnoret wrote: let the mcc have a forcefield over the ground spawn
The rules of the force forcefield are
1 you can't shoot out of it 2 you can't shoot into it 3 one you leave the forcefield you can't get back in
Solves most issues At least it's better then the current redline bs
Horrible Horrible Horrible idea... Have you even thought about how that would be used? As soon as a team gets redlined they would be unable to do anything at all. "oh look there's a guy approaching the shield" 12 people point their weapons at Piraten's head as he approaches the shield*
Wonderful idea for decimating any semblance of a system that allows respite.
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
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Tch Tch
Red Shirts Away Team
173
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Posted - 2014.01.21 01:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
No WP or KDR points for kills in or out of the redzone
Want War Points go into the war zone. Want to help your team but not get WP snipe or tank from the redzone.
Could limit this to the winning team. So if you are losing and being redlined you can fight as per normal. Whilst the red liners don't get points just satisfaction of a job well done.
Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1469
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Posted - 2014.01.21 01:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Take a page from MAGs book. Make racial spawn buildings filled with clone vats that cannot be entered, but can be left. Add a few small turret emplacements on the outside of them for maximum effectiveness.
ASCII diagram incoming:
(X) = turret ( | ) = wall ( _ / - ) = wall ( +á ) = door ( . ) = floor (C) = turret console (S) = spawn area
X __________ +á . . . C . . . +á ---- . . . . . . . . . . ---- | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | X|C . . . . .S. . . . . . .C|X | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | ---- . . . . . . . . . . ---- +á . . . C . . . +á GÇöGÇöGÇöGÇöGÇöGÇö X
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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Miokai Zahou
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
102
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Posted - 2014.01.21 01:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
The red line is fine how about you guys stay in cover or stop proto stomping? If not then you guys deserved to be sniped/bored to death while the other team stays in the red line.
Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
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Sneaky Fletcher
Three-body Solution
51
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Posted - 2014.01.21 01:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:I need a life
As elegant as your suggestion is and even though you obviously put a lot of time into it to look just like you wanted it and as concrete as possible for a DEV to hopefully come by and say "Oh hey, they got it!! look guys that one guy solved the redline dealio!!!" *Yes CCP devs talk like that mind you*
I'll steal your thunder with a solution elegant but as simple as it can be
Hamster balls!!!
you keep the red line, as in red comes in he has 20 secs to haul ass but then, when the blueberry exits the redline, a hamsterball forcefield engulfs him! he can't shoot or be shot but only for so many seconds!
...also fuq railtanks, forge guners, and snipers everything you try to shoot out or into the red line gets reflected so you better brace yourself lil heavy forger with your DAURRP ASSault FG because what goes around comes around *****!! |
Kasira Vorrikesh
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
57
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Posted - 2014.01.21 01:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Piraten Hovnoret wrote: let the mcc have a forcefield over the ground spawn
The rules of the force forcefield are
1 you can't shoot out of it 2 you can't shoot into it 3 one you leave the forcefield you can't get back in
Solves most issues At least it's better then the current redline bs Horrible Horrible Horrible idea... Have you even thought about how that would be used? As soon as a team gets redlined they would be unable to do anything at all. "oh look there's a guy approaching the shield" 12 people point their weapons at Piraten's head as he approaches the shield* Wonderful idea for decimating any semblance of a system that allows respite.
Agreed, it's a bad idea. If I want giant impenetrable bubbles, I'll watch Under the Dome.
If the redline had to go, I'd consider having the edges of the map (well, two of the edges anyway) made into a WWI-style maze of trenches and hand-held machine gun nests (Dust equivalent). Also included: an inexhaustible (they'd respawn quickly) field of friend-or-foe mines that'd funnel attackers into kill zones, and many firing slits; maybe even disguised sniper spots. All of these things would be focused on the killzones and shielded either by low walls or terrain so that to the only way to fire into them would be from the killzones. Likewise, the defenders would have no (protected) vantage points looking out, besides towards the narrow killzones. Attacking this area would be tantamount to suicide, but would require the active defense of the (presumably) losing team; no automated defenses besides the minefield.
This strip of fortified terrain would be very narrow, but couldn't be flanked. Dropships might be problematic, but since the approach could be defended by a small number of people, the rest could get AV weapons and concentrate on the air.
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VonSpliff
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
36
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Posted - 2014.01.21 01:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Simple fix. No one can shot in or out. Once you leave you are in battle, and the sp ticker starts. No re-entry.
Make a back story like, MMC creates one sided shield blah blah blah eve blah blah.
Sit in it all day without dying, getting kicked and receive no active passive SP.
"Long live the Empress, unless you have some isk"
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Azri Sarum
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
271
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Posted - 2014.01.21 02:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Part of the problem with the current redline, and with the forcefield ideas is that it only provides a single point to muster from. This allows the enemy to deploy their entire force there, ready and waiting for the blues to come out.
What we need is a system where there are multiple points a redlined team can muster and exit from. What this does is force the camping forces to split up, reducing their effective strength at any exit point..
Planetside two actually did this rather well. While there might be just a single spawn location, that location would always have multiple locations where you could exit its protection. They also had mechanics where you could deploy from above the battlefield, and land at a semi random position in the middle of the hotspot.
I'm not sure how we could implement this in DUST, since the maps have to be designed with it in mind. Perhaps we could create some deployable structure that mimic this functionality. Anyone have any thoughts on how we could make multiple muster zones with our current maps?
EVE - Victor Maximus
DUST - Azri Sarum
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Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
294
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Posted - 2014.01.21 02:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Remove all rewards from players in the redline. So no warpoints or kills.
And then remove the asymmetrical redlines from PC (and FW?). |
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
484
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Posted - 2014.01.21 03:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
VonSpliff wrote:Simple fix. No one can shot in or out. Once you leave you are in battle, and the sp ticker starts. No re-entry.
Make a back story like, MMC creates one sided shield blah blah blah eve blah blah.
Sit in it all day without dying, getting kicked and receive no active passive SP.
Boom... another idiot refuses to read around... congrats... you have failed the literacy test, and battle competency tests.
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
Unless you are skimming
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Aizen Intiki
Hell's Gate Inc League of Infamy
716
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Posted - 2014.01.21 03:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
A simple weapons lock while inside of the reline would suffice. No needing to make everything overly complex.
"Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say
Alt of the great Godin
I like chocolate ^___^
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
619
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Posted - 2014.01.21 07:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:The only thing I can think of would to build an enclosed area that is safe to it's team only with designated exits (if you've played TF2 you see these in every map), but then you wouldn't be able to call in vehicles, unless the base had a vehicle bay or something that you could use inside, and a vehicle would roll out of a doorway instead of the RDV. You'd have to have about 8 exits on every map, as well as a few obscure ones that are clearly not that visible from outside.
People would still complain about it, and call it "The new redline" because thats just what complainers do. They take an absolutely absurd and pointless topic, then complain all over about it. 90% of the time their issue can be completely avoided.... such as "redline sniping".... Things like "I can't hit them from inside the very obvious doorways because actually moving around takes up too much time!" etc etc, like they do with the sniping "I'm too lazy to get a militia sniper and move to one side to kill that sniper over there so it must be broken because I'm lazy! Therefore I conclude due to my unstable preferences that this region must be removed!" etc etc etc... The fix. |
Teilka Darkmist
21
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Posted - 2014.01.21 07:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
Competant snipers and Rail rifles are the answer to infantry hidng behind the redline, tanks and assault dropships are the answer to vehicles (I think, I've never used a vehicle so I'm just going on what I've read here in the forums).
No need to change the maps or anything else this way.
Plus if you've beaten the opponent back inside the redline there's likely not enough time for them to pull it back anyway or the other team is so bad it's no fun killing them.
'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - This gets old VERY quickly.
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens League of Infamy
352
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Posted - 2014.01.21 07:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
This is a problem that has no right answer.
'One Way Shield' problems: Basically completely locks you in the Red Line without being able to kill the people that have set up tents at the entrance to the Red Line. How does it work for Dropships? How am I supposed to recall my Vehicle without being completely killed if I can't get to a safe location in the Red Line?
'No Damage Red Line" problems: Snipers and Tanks can sit right on the edge. The second they start to take any damage, pull back a few feet and they are completely safe. "Dropships are so stupid with the new Red Line. They move fast enough to get into their Red Line before the second Rail/Forge Gun hits them. Even if it does, it does nothing."
'No reward Red Line' problems: Doesn't stop the Red Line Tank Sniper that is just trolling. Also still gives the ability to do the "I'll just kill these things and be on my way", so little changes in the end. Also, if there are people camping at your Red Line, you have no incentive to kill them and fight back as you would be getting no WP/SP.
'Remove Red Line' problems: No place to muster once you are pushed back; you might as well sit in the MCC until it explodes.
I think the biggest problem with the Red Line is the defeatist attitude in can get people in. When you are in a Domination and your side hasn't gotten to the point in four minutes and is losing by a quarter shields, you will see so many people just go Red Line Sniper. That safety net ends up becoming a hammock as people just get into the opinion of "well, we aren't going to win so I am just going to snipe and try to get some points." Once someone sees three people sniping, they get into the mood of "no wonder we aren't winning; look at all the Snipers!" This too gets them dejected and the whole thing feeds on itself.
It is incredibly complex and needs to be looked at very carefully. |
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hgghyujh
Expert Intervention Caldari State
228
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Posted - 2014.01.21 07:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
best Idea ive heard to date below, although I would like to see incentives removed from actions in the redline(IE no WP/SP/ISK passive or active while in the red line).
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=569299#post569299 |
hgghyujh
Expert Intervention Caldari State
228
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Posted - 2014.01.21 11:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
actually hardened proto turrets near a spawn structure with no LOS into or out of the main playing field inplace of a red line could work.
also spawn areas that provide lots of cover that don't require you to go longer distance to a spawn point then the distance between spawn points would help. |
Syeven Reed
RETR0 PR0 GAMERS INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
265
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Posted - 2014.01.21 12:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Updated OP with ideas of the SP's
Gÿé Syeven 514
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Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
174
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Posted - 2014.01.21 13:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
I think that the redline should be linked with a suits Profile. Give the redline a Precision Threshold (I'll use 50 as a starting number), then allow suits with a lower profile than that to enter the redline by a certain percentage (say a suit with Profile of 45 could go 10% further into the redline before the timer pops up). This would stagger enemy troops entering the redline as Scouts would be able to push deeper than Medium Frames, and Heavies and Tanks would be left on the outside. This would make a players ability to push enemy lines dependent on race, Frame size, fit.
This should also (I think, anyway) make it easier for a redlined team to push out of the redline, as the solid wall that we see right now is difficult break, but a staggered line (with the weakest suits up front) should be easier, as it would provide more holes for the team to exploit. Either way, it would still take coordination to either break out of, or hold, a redline.
This idea would still give teams an area or two that enemies can't get to that would allow for regrouping, but not give anyone a truly "safe zone".
I don't know, I haven't slept in like 24 hours, so this idea probably sucks, just thought I'd toss it out there. |
Daigen Arita
Bushiro INC.
0
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Posted - 2014.02.21 06:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
The red line should really be removed for the sake of ground soldiers and every vehicle in dust. Tanks always stay in the red line to shoot down dropships through the whole game. Their only intention to shoot down dropships. But if that wasn't a good enough reason in certain maps snipers can just stand there and kill anyone that tries to touch null cannons. I believe there are a number of solutions that CCP can do to fix this. 1. Take away the read line 2. Don't allow vehicles of any kind to spawn or enter the red line. 3. Push the red line back. 4. give each team more than one alternate spawn so the red line wouldn't be needed. These are all solutions that could easily solve this whole ordeal considering the red line imbalances all maps sometimes actually favoring the team that's not losing. |
Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn
3267
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Posted - 2014.02.21 06:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
One hand its protostomping and be considerate of new players. The next its about removing the redline and pushing it back. The removal of the redline idea seems very self centered and a bad idea.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Are you OUKH?
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