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Jason Pearson
3974
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Posted - 2014.01.17 23:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Did the same damage no matter what tier?
Let's say all Swarms fired 6 missiles, or all Forges hit as hard as a Proto one, wouldn't this be balanced due to all actives being the same for vehicles? Make the incentives faster RoF, bigger clips etc, but keep damage the same..
Wouldn't this be a better state of affairs and easier to balance?
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
3305
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Posted - 2014.01.17 23:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Not as long as vehicles can stack hardeners.
My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Long Evity
And this is why I am the #1 forum warrior
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
5627
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Posted - 2014.01.17 23:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
So...
You're fine with STD swarms doing 210 damage per swarm and firing 6?
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Jason Pearson
3974
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Posted - 2014.01.17 23:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Not as long as vehicles can stack hardeners.
So that's a no to making all weapons fire the same damage.
EVERYONE SEE THIS? SUGGEST A BUFF TO AV BUT GETS DENIED BECAUSE **** YOU I WANT THE WHOLE CAKE.
:)
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1582
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Posted - 2014.01.17 23:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well you're basically trading damage per shot for increased fire rate/shorter reload. DPS is effectively the same no matter what you do.
1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
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Jason Pearson
3978
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Posted - 2014.01.17 23:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:So...
You're fine with STD swarms doing 210 damage per swarm and firing 6?
I'd be fine with AV making sense if this is what you're asking sir, if vehicles and av are to be balanced based off of eachother, Militia needs to be useful against Militia, as it currently is militia is lols no matter what tank you run.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Appia Vibbia
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
692
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Posted - 2014.01.17 23:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
It's very different from what CCP has done so far, but I like keeping a single damage and just small boosts like that.
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
[email protected]
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
382
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Posted - 2014.01.17 23:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
What really counts are:
- Alpha damage
- Long term DPS
The way to achieve these, be it fast reload speed or large magazines or high damage per shot, is of no concern really. What's really wrong is that a PRO swarm launcher does 50% more damage than a STD one. We've changed to a 5% per tier approach a while ago, but swarm launchers and grenades are the only things that kept their old progression. |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2319
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Posted - 2014.01.17 23:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Not as long as vehicles can stack hardeners. So that's a no to making all weapons fire the same damage. EVERYONE SEE THIS? SUGGEST A BUFF TO AV BUT GETS DENIED BECAUSE **** YOU I WANT THE WHOLE CAKE. :)
This is not a buff.
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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Jason Pearson
3978
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Posted - 2014.01.17 23:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Well you're basically trading damage per shot for increased fire rate/shorter reload. DPS is effectively the same no matter what you do.
Uh? What?
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Jason Pearson
3978
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Posted - 2014.01.17 23:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Not as long as vehicles can stack hardeners. So that's a no to making all weapons fire the same damage. EVERYONE SEE THIS? SUGGEST A BUFF TO AV BUT GETS DENIED BECAUSE **** YOU I WANT THE WHOLE CAKE. :) This is not a buff.
So suggesting all Militia, Standard and Advanced hit as hard as proto, but increase RoF and clip size for each tier is not a buff?
What if I said make it so AV does -50% damage? Sir, I think you've gotten Nerf and Buff mixed up.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Rusty Shallows
819
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Posted - 2014.01.17 23:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
HAVs were flatlined somewhat. It was a needed part of a solution since new-players (or low SP) in HAVs were being griefed out of the game by proto-AV such as myself.
I rather like the idea as a design strategy. The entire game could do with an overhaul using that mindset. Advantages for going skilling-up up instead of clear-cut power. The only question on the balance is how much does the the tanking of HAVs goes up by each teir?
MCC Lounge Lizard
Forums > Game
Fix the game CCP
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Duran Lex
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
429
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Posted - 2014.01.17 23:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Did the same damage no matter what tier?
Let's say all Swarms fired 6 missiles, or all Forges hit as hard as a Proto one, wouldn't this be balanced due to all actives being the same for vehicles? Make the incentives faster RoF, bigger clips etc, but keep damage the same..
Wouldn't this be a better state of affairs and easier to balance?
Doesn't sound easier to balance.
For instance my Forge would be absolutely dominate in that scenario. Would I take a faster RoF and larger clip size with the current alpha damage of the proto forge in either variant? Why yes. Will I notice how overpowered it is and get bored with using it? Why yes.
Two separate changes can be a huge step towards balance.
Only one hardener allowed to be fitted and webifiers.
The Webifiers alone would satisfy the veteran AVers as well as open up a plethora of possible future modules for tanks and infantry alike.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
992
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Posted - 2014.01.17 23:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Agreed, that would make balancing AV easier.
FEEDBACK: Analysis on 1.7 tank functionality
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1586
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Posted - 2014.01.17 23:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Well you're basically trading damage per shot for increased fire rate/shorter reload. DPS is effectively the same no matter what you do. Uh? What?
Lets say a weapon fires at 5 times a second
Standard
100 Damage * 5/sec = 500DPS
Advanced
120 Damage * 5/sec = 600DPS
Prototype
140 Damage * 5/sec = 700DPS
You're proposing making damage the same but increase fire rate
Standard
140 Damage * 3.57/sec = 500DPS
Advanced
140 Damage * 4.28/sec = 600DPS
Prototype
140 Damage * 5/sec = 700DPS
Overall sustained DPS is the same, you just increase the burst damage slightly which isn't a bad idea, don't get me wrong.
1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
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BuzzKill1
Valor Coalition
7
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Posted - 2014.01.18 00:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
I like this idea, imagine a forge gun with 6-8 shots in a clip, and a 1.5 second ROF doing proto level damage.
Add a zoom and I'm sold, or a scope lol.
Where's my MTAC with dual forge guns CCP ?
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Jason Pearson
3980
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Posted - 2014.01.18 00:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
BuzzKill1 wrote:I like this idea, imagine a forge gun with 6-8 shots in a clip, and a 1.5 second ROF doing proto level damage.
Add a zoom and I'm sold, or a scope lol.
O.O
*deletes thread*
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
7938
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Posted - 2014.01.18 00:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:BuzzKill1 wrote:I like this idea, imagine a forge gun with 6-8 shots in a clip, and a 1.5 second ROF doing proto level damage.
Add a zoom and I'm sold, or a scope lol. O.O *deletes thread*
You've unleashed it now.
I think the forge actually needs a RoF similar to the rail rifle. No less damage though. It also needs a fair bit more splash and obviously due to the higher RoF a 50+ clip size.
Level 7 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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Lorhak Gannarsein
1227
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Posted - 2014.01.18 00:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:BuzzKill1 wrote:I like this idea, imagine a forge gun with 6-8 shots in a clip, and a 1.5 second ROF doing proto level damage.
Add a zoom and I'm sold, or a scope lol. O.O *deletes thread* You've unleashed it now. I think the forge actually needs a RoF similar to the rail rifle. No less damage though. It also needs a fair bit more splash and obviously due to the higher RoF a 50+ clip size.
And ADS, and faster turning, et voila! You've just obsoleted the HMG. And every other weapon.
We are now playing a game of rocket tag. Thanks, Arkena and Jason. Well done.
PRO tanker and proud.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Learning Coalition College
3600
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Posted - 2014.01.18 00:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Not as long as vehicles can stack hardeners.
All they really need are much harsher stacking penalties
Throwing some random numbers around:
1 hardener- 30% damage reduction
2 hardeners- 15% damage reduction each, but with the advantage of spreading it out more.
We used to have a time machine
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Jason Pearson
3986
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Posted - 2014.01.18 00:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:BuzzKill1 wrote:I like this idea, imagine a forge gun with 6-8 shots in a clip, and a 1.5 second ROF doing proto level damage.
Add a zoom and I'm sold, or a scope lol. O.O *deletes thread* You've unleashed it now. I think the forge actually needs a RoF similar to the rail rifle. No less damage though. It also needs a fair bit more splash and obviously due to the higher RoF a 50+ clip size. And ADS, and faster turning, et voila! You've just obsoleted the HMG. And every other weapon. We are now playing a game of rocket tag. Thanks, Arkena and Jason. Well done.
yw babe
now get online so we can go stomp ambush, ******* three different squads running tank/ads spam, kill two/three, and they just call more in.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Lorhak Gannarsein
1228
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Posted - 2014.01.18 00:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:BuzzKill1 wrote:I like this idea, imagine a forge gun with 6-8 shots in a clip, and a 1.5 second ROF doing proto level damage.
Add a zoom and I'm sold, or a scope lol. O.O *deletes thread* You've unleashed it now. I think the forge actually needs a RoF similar to the rail rifle. No less damage though. It also needs a fair bit more splash and obviously due to the higher RoF a 50+ clip size. And ADS, and faster turning, et voila! You've just obsoleted the HMG. And every other weapon. We are now playing a game of rocket tag. Thanks, Arkena and Jason. Well done. yw babe now get online so we can go stomp ambush, ******* three different squads running tank/ads spam, kill two/three, and they just call more in.
Twenty minutes :)
PRO tanker and proud.
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Jason Pearson
3986
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Posted - 2014.01.18 00:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
Twenty minutes :)
ARGGGGHH
*continues farming Caldari FW*
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Harpyja
molon labe.
Public Disorder.
1117
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Posted - 2014.01.18 01:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Did the same damage no matter what tier?
Let's say all Swarms fired 6 missiles, or all Forges hit as hard as a Proto one, wouldn't this be balanced due to all actives being the same for vehicles? Make the incentives faster RoF, bigger clips etc, but keep damage the same..
Wouldn't this be a better state of affairs and easier to balance?
I'd much rather bring back tiered modules.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Jason Pearson
3986
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Posted - 2014.01.18 01:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Did the same damage no matter what tier?
Let's say all Swarms fired 6 missiles, or all Forges hit as hard as a Proto one, wouldn't this be balanced due to all actives being the same for vehicles? Make the incentives faster RoF, bigger clips etc, but keep damage the same..
Wouldn't this be a better state of affairs and easier to balance? I'd much rather bring back tiered modules.
No.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Goro Scornshard
DUST University
Ivy League
58
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Posted - 2014.01.18 01:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
http://www.motivateusnot.com/demotivational-poster/2012/06/02/****-shit_shit_shit_shit_shit_shit_shit_shit_shit_shit
There are many like it but this one is mine...
GÖæ
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KING CHECKMATE
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
3735
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Posted - 2014.01.18 01:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Not as long as vehicles can stack hardeners. So that's a no to making all weapons fire the same damage. EVERYONE SEE THIS? SUGGEST A BUFF TO AV BUT GETS DENIED BECAUSE **** YOU I WANT THE WHOLE CAKE. :)
He means that EVEN if all weapons hit at PROTO LEVEL, nothing would change because Tank Active modules are so powerful they take away the Skill needed to be a good tanker,instead, people highly relying on Active Modules to survive.
And the Feline Merc Is RIGHT.
How is this a BUFF?
AS IT IS, everyone ONLY USES PROTO AV vs tanks. Nothing would change...duh....
GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
1229
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Posted - 2014.01.18 02:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Not as long as vehicles can stack hardeners. So that's a no to making all weapons fire the same damage. EVERYONE SEE THIS? SUGGEST A BUFF TO AV BUT GETS DENIED BECAUSE **** YOU I WANT THE WHOLE CAKE. :) He means that EVEN if all weapons hit at PROTO LEVEL, nothing would change because Tank Active modules are so powerful they take away the Skill needed to be a good tanker,instead, people highly relying on Active Modules to survive. And the Feline Merc Is RIGHT.
How is this a BUFF?AS IT IS, everyone ONLY USES PROTO AV vs tanks. Nothing would change...duh....
It's a buff because he's saying 'INCREASE PROTO DPS'.
C'mon guys, reading comprehension.
It's only a 2x skill.
PRO tanker and proud.
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KenKaniff69
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
1904
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Not as long as vehicles can stack hardeners. All they really need are much harsher stacking penalties Throwing some random numbers around: 1 hardener- 30% damage reduction 2 hardeners- 15% damage reduction each, but with the advantage of spreading it out more.
looks like you need to go back to school. the whole idea of the overhaul is to have god mode hardeners since we have so little hp when they are off.
So about those vehicle locks...
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Blaze Ashra
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
131
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
KenKaniff69 wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Not as long as vehicles can stack hardeners. All they really need are much harsher stacking penalties Throwing some random numbers around: 1 hardener- 30% damage reduction 2 hardeners- 15% damage reduction each, but with the advantage of spreading it out more. looks like you need to go back to school. the whole idea of the overhaul is to have god mode hardeners since we have so little hp when they are off.
I've got to agree with this.
ADS Pilot/Amarr Loyalist/Logi/WP Whore
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