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Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1131	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:12:00 - [1] - Quote One of the things that has pained me about watching alliances come, go, rise, and fall in this game has been a significant lack of investment and loyalty. Both players and corps come and go from corps and alliances respectively with great frequency, often towards whomever is currently the largest or more powerful or least defeated or otherwise. Being beaten in a war in DUST is not a reason to regroup and rebuild, it's seen as a reason to disband. Alliances are often entered into casually or out of convenience, not out of like-minded goals and a desire to work as one. Many times, alliances in this game feel like they are nothing more than non-aggression pacts with names on them. Our alliance has always been more than that. Before Top Men even became Top Men, we had a mentality of joined forces and operating as one force, employing the each other's strengths for mutual benefit. Over time, a certain number of regular practices emerged, and became standard behavior. After a while, it became prudent to codify those practices into rules. As such, the alliance charter was born. http://www.dust-gents.com/charter (Note that forum formatting is more limited, and the version on the web URL is probably cleaner to read.) Charter Status and Amendment - All existing and incoming Top Men corporations must agree to abide by the provisions of the alliance charter. - The alliance charter can be modified by the alliance Generals according to the applicable voting procedures detailed in the leadership section. - When a change is made to the alliance charter, it will be posted for feedback and commentary for a period of no less than two weeks . During this time, it may be implemented with a grace period for compliance. Otherwise, it takes effect at the end of the feedback period. - Failure or refusal to comply with the charter will remove a member corporation from the alliance. Alliance leadership will allow reasonable periods of time for a member corporation to reach compliance with any provision after issuing a notification of non-compliance. Player Expectations - Players are expected to act in a "gentlemanly fashion". This includes respectful communication with other players as well as leadership, both within the alliance, and foreign parties. - Players may not attempt to harass or interfere with any member of our alliance or coalition, or any other allies deemed protected by alliance leadership. - Players may not scam any member of our alliance or coalition, or any other allies deemed protected by alliance leadership. - Players may not misrepresent their level of authority within Top Men, such as claiming to be a leader or diplomat in the alliance without holding said role. - Players with EVE characters are required to comply with any special provisions listed for them in the section below. Member Corporation Expectations - Member corporations are required to provide alliance leadership with a continually-accessible corporation API key with CorporationSheet and MemberTracking accessible. - Member corporation leadership are expected to participate actively in both their corporation and the alliance, and keep informed of alliance events and policy. - Member corporation leadership are expected to provide a chain of command and assistance in escalating matters up to the alliance level where prudent. - Member corporations are required to work within our platoon leadership program for the management of planetary conquest fights. - Member corporations may be required to pay a monthly fee to the alliance to be used for alliance programs like reimbursement of losses, contests and giveaways, and/or other programs. The alliance may elect to set a fee that is variable based on the number of members a corporation has and/or the number of districts it holds. - Member corporations are prohibited from actively recruiting members of another member corporation or actively recruiting within internal alliance channels. - Member corporations are required to remove a player on request from a Distinguished Merc or General, provided a reason for the request is given that is in accordance with this charter. - Member corporations are required to comply with the alliance blacklist, by rejecting all applications from both characters on it, and characters reasonably believed to be alts of characters on it. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1131	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:12:00 - [2] - Quote Leadership Structure and Expectations Roles - The senior-most leadership of Top Men are referred to as Generals. Members of this group have the top level of authority and escalation for any issue. Generals determine the promotion of all senior alliance leadership roles. - Below the Generals are Distinguished Mercs. They are diplomatic contacts for the alliance, and convey information as appropriate between leadership and the playerbase. They are well-versed in alliance matters, and can speak on behalf of the alliance. - Management of combat operations, particularly planetary conquest, is lead by Senior Platoon Leaders. Senior platoon leaders define our combat procedures, and manage the platoon leader group, including the approval of new platoon leaders. - The minimum required role in order to lead a planetary conquest match or other alliance-supported event is Platoon Leader. A platoon leader either volunteers or is assigned responsibility for a fight or other event, and is the person-in-charge for that operation. - The Treasurer is responsible for providing an up-to-date accounting of alliance financial assets. - The Web Services Administrator is responsible for the maintenance of the alliance website and forums, and may appoint additional technical staff as required for stable services operation. - Alliance leadership such as Generals or Distinguished Mercs may also hold secondary roles. Voting - The addition of an alliance corp requires a 60% majority of Generals. - The removal of an alliance corp requires a 75% majority of Generals. - The promotion or demotion of any Distinguished Merc or Senior Platoon Leader requires a 75% majority of Generals. - The promotion of a new General requires a 75% majority of Generals. - The removal of a General requires a unanimous vote of Generals, excluding the General in question. - The modification of the alliance charter requires a 75% majority of Generals, and has the force of law after the applicable feedback period. Addendums Planetary Conquest Management - All planetary conquest matches should be posted on the Planetary Conquest Tracker on the alliance website as soon as possible. - All planetary conquest matches must be lead by an approved alliance platoon leader, who is the person in charge for that match. - All planetary conquest matches should have a designated backup platoon leader if possible, in the event the platoon leader in charge becomes unavailable. - All planetary conquest matches should use formup channels GENTS.OPx, where x is a number determined by the platoon leader in charge before the match. Alliance Blacklist - The alliance blacklist shall be available to corporation leadership via the alliance forums. - Any character on the blacklist, or any character suspected to be an alt of a character on the blacklist, is not permitted in any alliance corporation. - Leadership of member corporations may request a player added to the alliance blacklist. Submissions should be provided to a Distinguished Merc or General with a reason as well as any known alts or aliases. - Leadership of member corporations may request a review of a blacklisted player to determine the merit of removing them from it. - Alliance leadership will review these requests and determine the appropriate changes to the blacklist. Special Forces Divisions - Special Forces Divisions are subgroups of players in the alliance that are irrespective of member corporations. They can be created with the approval of any General. - Special Forces Divisions have no explicit authority unless granted it specifically by alliance leadership. EVE Online Players - EVE players are expected to inform the alliance of their previous and current affiliations upon request. - Top Men permits EVE characters to be a part of member corporations, but strongly advises them to do so only if they provide a corporation API key for their corporation or provide orbital support for the alliance. - Players with EVE characters in Top Men are expected to be registered on the forums and enrolled in the Death From Above Special Forces Division. - EVE characters within Top Men are expected to follow any rules set forth by any member of our alliance or coalition, or any other allies deemed protected by alliance leadership while traveling within their space. - EVE characters within Top Men are expected to report incidents between themselves and other allies as well as incidents located in allied space. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1131	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:16:00 - [3] - Quote Reserved for future notes. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1243	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:32:00 - [4] - Quote The previous corporation I was in left Top Men because they didn't like how you ran things and tried to influence a lot of what we did not giving us a lot of breathing room to do things our way. It also seems like the "Generals" are an elitist group that holds all the power I don't see why a certain percentage of each corporation doesn't vote them in like 50% of each corp so no corp with 150 players over powers the corp with that of 75 requiring most if not all corps to achieve that mark. The way you run it makes it look like a popularity contest get to know a bunch of "Generals" be reasonably noticeable and get in. Not an Alliance I would like to be apart of. Caldari Tanker/Minmatar Assault Forum warrior lvl 1
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1131	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:55:00 - [5] - Quote Benjamin, one thing discovered in EVE, was that a voting system works poorly in an alliance. This is not because input is not sought, and feedback is not listened to, but because a voting procedure can be long and drawn out, if not everyone is available, or reads or responds to the forums. Alliances that hold votes operate too slowly. The few things we have specific things voted on, even within leadership, are not time-critical things. Because then opportunities get missed. Alliances are usually dictatorships, with varying degrees of benevolence. Additionally, leadership is about doing things. Everyone in leadership got there because they were already doing the things that made them stand out as an alliance leader, without even being asked, in most cases. For example, Cpt Merdock went from being the CEO of a corp that had recently joined us to one of the top-ranking leaders in the alliance, because of what he did to organize and collaborate with corporations in our European time zone. As a note, at least two of the corp leadership from your past corp would've easily met our requirements for alliance leadership, but they didn't want to work together. If they'd demonstrated any attitude indicating a desire to work with the alliance instead of apart from it, I would've pushed for it. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1243	Posted - 2014.01.17 22:07:00 - [6] - Quote I am not aware of the specific reasons I just got the gist of why we left but anyway I still don't agree with generals voting in Generals I would favor more of a requirement for voting so for example one must play 3-4 times a week so the active players are voting makes sense those who are active see the candidate the most and have the best knowledge and if you don't show up for the process you don't have a say, I would even agree with corps having to have a majority to recommend someone as "General" and the Generals themselves to do the actual voting. Caldari Tanker/Minmatar Assault Forum warrior lvl 1
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1131	Posted - 2014.01.17 22:29:00 - [7] - Quote I most certainly understand your concern. This is generally, however, based on our parent EVE alliance's operations, and the experience brought to the table from there. I actually think the way we operate in DUST is a little bit less of a dictatorship than EVE side. I think you'll find that in almost every alliance in both DUST and EVE there is one person who is ultimately in charge, whereas we do not. A voting system actually can, in some cases, breed further political mess, which can be devastating for a group, particularly if it's currently involved in a war. I try to ensure the honest feedback door is always open for anyone to step up and suggest that we're doing things badly. And we take comments very seriously. The ultimate check and balance for any alliance, however, is your ability to leave if you don't feel your input has enough of an effect. A decision your former corp chose to exercise. And we endeavor to make that process as cordial and smooth of a transition as possible. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
excillon Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 166	Posted - 2014.01.18 14:11:00 - [8] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: The previous corporation I was in left Top Men because they didn't like how you ran things and tried to influence a lot of what we did not giving us a lot of breathing room to do things our way. It also seems like the "Generals" are an elitist group that holds all the power I don't see why a certain percentage of each corporation doesn't vote them in like 50% of each corp so no corp with 150 players over powers the corp with that of 75 requiring most if not all corps to achieve that mark. The way you run it makes it look like a popularity contest get to know a bunch of "Generals" be reasonably noticeable and get in. Not an Alliance I would like to be apart of. This X1000. As a former top men member I fully agree. So do the other two who left with me and we were all vets with at least 10 mil sp. No offense but you think you're so different, but you're not.
Bear D'Grassi Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 35	Posted - 2014.01.18 14:41:00 - [9] - Quote We have been in this alliance now for over nine months, when we joined it was understood that Top Men, (Dust Gents as it was then) was looking to the future of Dust rather than concentrating solely on immediate goals. We now have a great cohesive group of players with alliance squads being the norm in all forms of play across all time zones. As for being dictated to, we have never been asked or required to do anything we did not wish to. We have excellent communication with the leadership and many times our input is sought prior to decisions being made. Having contributed to the stability of the alliance and proven our commitment some of our members now hold leadership positions within its command structure further enhancing our contribution. When all is said and done MH was only ever a test ground for the "end game" of Dust, once it decides to leave home and venture out into the greater universe of New Eden we will have our time in the sun. It is for these reasons that we are members of Top Men and proud to be so.
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 169	Posted - 2014.01.18 14:47:00 - [10] - Quote Bear D'Grassi wrote: We have been in this alliance now for over nine months, when we joined it was understood that Top Men, (Dust Gents as it was then) was looking to the future of Dust rather than concentrating solely on immediate goals. We now have a great cohesive group of players with alliance squads being the norm in all forms of play across all time zones. As for being dictated to, we have never been asked or required to do anything we did not wish to. We have excellent communication with the leadership and many times our input is sought prior to decisions being made. Having contributed to the stability of the alliance and proven our commitment some of our members now hold leadership positions within its command structure further enhancing our contribution. When all is said and done MH was only ever a test ground for the "end game" of Dust, once it decides to leave home and venture out into the greater universe of New Eden we will have our time in the sun. It is for these reasons that we are members of Top Men and proud to be so. I agree with these comments.

Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 2280	Posted - 2014.01.18 15:06:00 - [11] - Quote You are failing to realize that old alliances have broken up because players left dust and the alliance is no longer active. There are really a handful or less than a handful of corps that bounce around from alliance to alliance, depending on who's the best at the time. weRideNDie2getha since 2010
843-BANE BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 320	Posted - 2014.01.18 15:16:00 - [12] - Quote Sounds like you're trying to justify Top Men's lack of activity, perhaps that you own 2 PFC districts between your entire alliance. It doesn't matter to anyone, we don't care. Just keep doing what you're doing and shine when you want to shine the community doesn't need an explanation. Director // Ranking Officer // BurgezzE.T.F Patron of War \| GPæGPìGPî
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 545	Posted - 2014.01.18 15:24:00 - [13] - Quote 843-BANE wrote: Sounds like you're trying to justify Top Men's lack of activity, perhaps that you own 2 PFC districts between your entire alliance. It doesn't matter to anyone, we don't care. Just keep doing what you're doing and shine when you want to shine the community doesn't need an explanation. This, CEO'S quietly building, voting including the majority does work... CEO Invictus Maneo~ "I remain unvanquished"
843-BANE BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 321	Posted - 2014.01.18 15:28:00 - [14] - Quote CYRAX SERVIUS wrote: 843-BANE wrote: Sounds like you're trying to justify Top Men's lack of activity, perhaps that you own 2 PFC districts between your entire alliance. It doesn't matter to anyone, we don't care. Just keep doing what you're doing and shine when you want to shine the community doesn't need an explanation. This, CEO'S quietly building, voting including the majority does work... Any form of leadership/voting can work if it's done right. People can posture about the 'future' all they like but it doesn't make them any stronger or relevant until they actually do something. Director // Ranking Officer // BurgezzE.T.F Patron of War \| GPæGPìGPî
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4443	Posted - 2014.01.18 15:42:00 - [15] - Quote Alliances are not truly tested until they have been in all out war.
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1148	Posted - 2014.01.18 16:33:00 - [16] - Quote 843-BANE wrote: Just keep doing what you're doing and shine when you want to shine the community doesn't need an explanation. It's not necessarily about shining. My question, my challenge, to the community, is why other alliances in DUST aren't assembled with a little more cement. Some of the "top end" corps are in an alliance little more than a week before they're off somewhere else. HowDidThatTaste wrote: Alliances are not truly tested until they have been in all out war. But is there a war worth having? Is any war in Molden Heath really worth calling a war at all? Molden Heath is like the back alley of New Eden. Anyone who fights over it has probably already lost. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
843-BANE BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 321	Posted - 2014.01.18 16:42:00 - [17] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: 843-BANE wrote: Just keep doing what you're doing and shine when you want to shine the community doesn't need an explanation. It's not necessarily about shining. My question, my challenge, to the community, is why other alliances in DUST aren't assembled with a little more cement. Some of the "top end" corps are in an alliance little more than a week before they're off somewhere else. HowDidThatTaste wrote: Alliances are not truly tested until they have been in all out war. But is there a war worth having? Is any war in Molden Heath really worth calling a war at all? Molden Heath is like the back alley of New Eden. Anyone who fights over it has probably already lost. Do you think because your alliance is structured with a little more 'cement' that it means you guys are any better off than alliances that are more casually organised? You guys have a lot of bureaucracy and red tape, sure, but that doesn't enhance your gaming experience and clearly it's not enhancing your alliances' standing in the game. At the end of the day if you don't have strong players then all the charters and principals in the world aren't going to help you. Director // Ranking Officer // BurgezzE.T.F Patron of War \| GPæGPìGPî
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4444	Posted - 2014.01.18 18:33:00 - [18] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: 843-BANE wrote: Just keep doing what you're doing and shine when you want to shine the community doesn't need an explanation. It's not necessarily about shining. My question, my challenge, to the community, is why other alliances in DUST aren't assembled with a little more cement. Some of the "top end" corps are in an alliance little more than a week before they're off somewhere else. HowDidThatTaste wrote: Alliances are not truly tested until they have been in all out war. But is there a war worth having? Is any war in Molden Heath really worth calling a war at all? Molden Heath is like the back alley of New Eden. Anyone who fights over it has probably already lost. Lol the last I checked this whole game is based on fighting. The wars we have now may not be relevant in eve, but you could also say the wars in eve are irrelevant to dust. At the end if the day we are in a shooting game and any corps who have been in these dust wars will tell you it is much more exciting than pub matches. So sitting back and not getting involved in the actual war mechanic makes being in an alliance kinda irrelevant and lost because they were to scared to try.
Long Evity 1124	Posted - 2014.01.18 19:24:00 - [19] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: 843-BANE wrote: Just keep doing what you're doing and shine when you want to shine the community doesn't need an explanation. It's not necessarily about shining. My question, my challenge, to the community, is why other alliances in DUST aren't assembled with a little more cement. Some of the "top end" corps are in an alliance little more than a week before they're off somewhere else. HowDidThatTaste wrote: Alliances are not truly tested until they have been in all out war. But is there a war worth having? Is any war in Molden Heath really worth calling a war at all? Molden Heath is like the back alley of New Eden. Anyone who fights over it has probably already lost. Lol the last I checked this whole game is based on fighting. The wars we have now may not be relevant in eve, but you could also say the wars in eve are irrelevant to dust. At the end if the day we are in a shooting game and any corps who have been in these dust wars will tell you it is much more exciting than pub matches. So sitting back and not getting involved in the actual war mechanic makes being in an alliance kinda irrelevant and lost because they were to scared to try. These guys, "preparing for the future" are going to be in for a shock when it's the same people still thrashing them. One day, they'll sit in a circle and ask, "Why can't we win? EvE now matters, we can even prevent attacks." and then realize, "Oh, it's because we didn't practice or train at all, guess we shouldn't of ignored all the wars, guess we better hire them instead." :D I <3 top men btw - you guys are great. I am not who you think I am, only but just a dream.
CookieStein G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 200	Posted - 2014.01.19 00:19:00 - [20] - Quote HmmGÇªme thinks your veiled condescending tone still doesn't mask the fact that your 'policies' are pretty 'cookie-cutter' when it boils down to it. If working with a top-down structure, a full charter of policy and operating procedures is what you want then good for you guys, if it works then carry on. I highly doubt that players and corps switch allegiances in Dust all that much more than in Eve (shall we discuss TEST?) and that difference between the two can be accounted by the difference in mentality between a point-and-click space sim and a FPSGÇªthat will never change. Its funny to me how the corps/alliances that one can consider 'Eve born' have maintained this attitude of "when it matters"GÇªhow did that work out for Subdreddit? Your statement of All For One And One For All is nice but holds no weight until you have been tested by bloody, bloody warGÇªthat attitude/belief has never been executed better than by EoN when we were at our peak before too many players went on to much greener pastures than Dust will have for a long long time. EoNBrosBestBros is an attitude I will always have but the time came when there was little reason for us to maintain EoN tagsGÇªsomeone like Ydubbs will always have mad respect from me for being a stubborn bastard and keeping his alliance tag when there is no longer any reason to (in Dust/Eve). Rules for rules sake is nothing more than a leadership circle-jerk that can easily isolate your line members. KISS and following a trickle-down mentality creates cohesion, dedication and functionality while not stomping out individual corp culture. But thats me, to each their own.

kiarbanor S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 287	Posted - 2014.01.19 01:04:00 - [21] - Quote Since I'm being indirectly discussed in this thread, I will give my honest opinion of Top Men. They have extremely great organization and knowledge. And if you relate well with that type of personality, I highly recommend them. I met and played with some great people in this alliance. The reason Se\7eN left, to put it simply, is because we could not agree with how decisions were made. It was just a difference in opinions. We thought an alliance was for individual corps to remain individual but have more resources when required. Our opinion was that others in the alliance thought an alliance was one giant corp. I truly miss some of the players still there, and I wish nothing but good fortune to the Top Men alliance. Happy Gaming!!!
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2027	Posted - 2014.01.19 01:10:00 - [22] - Quote Soraya... neverfucking mind... Soraya is just one person I'm not going any further... A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2027	Posted - 2014.01.19 01:34:00 - [23] - Quote I like Top Men they're certainly not as condescending or totalitarian as some have suggested, we're going to get plenty of you unreliable ISK hungry people who will jump corps to get on whatever bandwagon. Top Men's a bit more EVE oriented but it doesn't mean that we can't fight we stay on PFC because PC isn't really a huge priority, sure getting training is about all we can do but these wars are jokes, we've got plenty of ISK (that we can't use). The thing is, is that we've got issues our US side isn't the greatest, or most active but we've shown up before our corps all have had districts. A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4451	Posted - 2014.01.19 01:40:00 - [24] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: I like Top Men they're certainly not as condescending or totalitarian as some have suggested, we're going to get plenty of you unreliable ISK hungry people who will jump corps to get on whatever bandwagon. Top Men's a bit more EVE oriented but it doesn't mean that we can't fight we stay on PFC because PC isn't really a huge priority, sure getting training is about all we can do but these wars are jokes, we've got plenty of ISK (that we can't use). The thing is, is that we've got issues our US side isn't the greatest, or most active but we've shown up before our corps all have had districts. Well it sounds like you guys are good enough to move out of PFC. Or are you there just to farm isk which you say you don't need? Why dont you graciously leave PFC and come into MH?
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2027	Posted - 2014.01.19 01:48:00 - [25] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: Killar-12 wrote: I like Top Men they're certainly not as condescending or totalitarian as some have suggested, we're going to get plenty of you unreliable ISK hungry people who will jump corps to get on whatever bandwagon. Top Men's a bit more EVE oriented but it doesn't mean that we can't fight we stay on PFC because PC isn't really a huge priority, sure getting training is about all we can do but these wars are jokes, we've got plenty of ISK (that we can't use). The thing is, is that we've got issues our US side isn't the greatest, or most active but we've shown up before our corps all have had districts. Well it sounds like you guys good enough to move on of PFC. Or are you there just to farm isk which you say you don't need? Why dont you graciously leave PFC and come into MH? Wait a week or two. This is the first time we've been at full clones http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Oddelulf/III-District-11 http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Oddelulf/III-District-6 But the thing that all of you leet sons of bitches annoy me with is your not the type to make something do something, yall bandwagon, join a little guy I'd bet you couldn't do **** unless you pull talent from dying corps, you've never worked your way up you don't understand... http://dustboard.com/global/merc/HowDidThatTaste that's just me though... A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
843-BANE BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 327	Posted - 2014.01.19 01:53:00 - [26] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: Killar-12 wrote: I like Top Men they're certainly not as condescending or totalitarian as some have suggested, we're going to get plenty of you unreliable ISK hungry people who will jump corps to get on whatever bandwagon. Top Men's a bit more EVE oriented but it doesn't mean that we can't fight we stay on PFC because PC isn't really a huge priority, sure getting training is about all we can do but these wars are jokes, we've got plenty of ISK (that we can't use). The thing is, is that we've got issues our US side isn't the greatest, or most active but we've shown up before our corps all have had districts. Well it sounds like you guys good enough to move on of PFC. Or are you there just to farm isk which you say you don't need? Why dont you graciously leave PFC and come into MH? Wait a week or two. This is the first time we've been at full clones http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Oddelulf/III-District-11 http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Oddelulf/III-District-6 But the thing that all of you leet sons of bitches annoy me with is your not the type to make something do something, yall bandwagon, join a little guy I'd bet you couldn't do ** unless you pull talent from dying corps, you've never worked your way up you don't understand... http://dustboard.com/global/merc/HowDidThatTaste that's just me though... I respect what you're saying Killar and do agree that there is a big 'bandwagon'/'easy mode' mentality with a lot of corporations. But there are a lot of corps/alliances that aren't like that. Look at PD. STB doesn't have the best rep but it's hardly a bandwagon corp, they are loyal as to their name even through all the they've had. same with Burgezz of course and pretty much the rest of our alliance. Director // Ranking Officer //** BurgezzE.T.F Patron of War \| GPæGPìGPî
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2027	Posted - 2014.01.19 01:53:00 - [27] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: Killar-12 wrote: I like Top Men they're certainly not as condescending or totalitarian as some have suggested, we're going to get plenty of you unreliable ISK hungry people who will jump corps to get on whatever bandwagon. Top Men's a bit more EVE oriented but it doesn't mean that we can't fight we stay on PFC because PC isn't really a huge priority, sure getting training is about all we can do but these wars are jokes, we've got plenty of ISK (that we can't use). The thing is, is that we've got issues our US side isn't the greatest, or most active but we've shown up before our corps all have had districts. Well it sounds like you guys are good enough to move out of PFC. Or are you there just to farm isk which you say you don't need? Why dont you graciously leave PFC and come into MH? How about Nyain Chan? How about The Generals? or Valor Coalition? or RND? Grupo? Hellstorm? TSOLE? WTF? A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2027	Posted - 2014.01.19 01:56:00 - [28] - Quote 843-BANE wrote: Killar-12 wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: Killar-12 wrote: I like Top Men they're certainly not as condescending or totalitarian as some have suggested, we're going to get plenty of you unreliable ISK hungry people who will jump corps to get on whatever bandwagon. Top Men's a bit more EVE oriented but it doesn't mean that we can't fight we stay on PFC because PC isn't really a huge priority, sure getting training is about all we can do but these wars are jokes, we've got plenty of ISK (that we can't use). The thing is, is that we've got issues our US side isn't the greatest, or most active but we've shown up before our corps all have had districts. Well it sounds like you guys good enough to move on of PFC. Or are you there just to farm isk which you say you don't need? Why dont you graciously leave PFC and come into MH? Wait a week or two. This is the first time we've been at full clones http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Oddelulf/III-District-11 http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Oddelulf/III-District-6 But the thing that all of you leet sons of bitches annoy me with is your not the type to make something do something, yall bandwagon, join a little guy I'd bet you couldn't do ** unless you pull talent from dying corps, you've never worked your way up you don't understand... http://dustboard.com/global/merc/HowDidThatTaste that's just me though... I respect what you're saying Killar and do agree that there is a big 'bandwagon'/'easy mode' mentality with a lot of corporations. But there are a lot of corps/alliances that aren't like that. Look at PD. STB doesn't have the best rep but it's hardly a bandwagon corp, they are loyal as to their name even through all the ** they've had. same with Burgezz of course and pretty much the rest of our alliance. I wholly respect 843, STB and PD because YOU DID work to where you are! A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1155	Posted - 2014.01.19 04:32:00 - [29] - Quote Note that there are certainly corps and players with more investment and loyalty than others, but when I see corps that are often not in the same alliance more than two months, it makes me kinda sad. The game needs factions. Real groups, that are willing to stick together even if they aren't on top of the pile. Long Evity, we do practice. Almost every day. We had two matches on the board today, for example. And while we are certainly aware that we aren't usually facing AE or OH or DDB every day, among those we do face, we actually have a fairly good win/loss record. Right now, I can't fathom why anyone would focus on doing W full PC unless they intend to district lock, which we don't. We don't farm on PFC, we invite people to come fight us on it, and if people don't, we place attacks ourselves. Because we get fights. And they're fun. And that's really the point at this juncture. Fun, practice, shooting reds. kiarbanor, Thanks for your comments. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
NobIesse Oblige Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 48	Posted - 2014.01.19 05:32:00 - [30] - Quote CookieStein wrote: HmmGÇªme thinks your veiled condescending tone still doesn't mask the fact that your 'policies' are pretty 'cookie-cutter' when it boils down to it. If working with a top-down structure, a full charter of policy and operating procedures is what you want then good for you guys, if it works then carry on. I highly doubt that players and corps switch allegiances in Dust all that much more than in Eve (shall we discuss TEST?) and that difference between the two can be accounted by the difference in mentality between a point-and-click space sim and a FPSGÇªthat will never change. Its funny to me how the corps/alliances that one can consider 'Eve born' have maintained this attitude of "when it matters"GÇªhow did that work out for Subdreddit? Your statement of All For One And One For All is nice but holds no weight until you have been tested by bloody, bloody warGÇªthat attitude/belief has never been executed better than by EoN when we were at our peak before too many players went on to much greener pastures than Dust will have for a long long time. EoNBrosBestBros is an attitude I will always have but the time came when there was little reason for us to maintain EoN tagsGÇªsomeone like Ydubbs will always have mad respect from me for being a stubborn bastard and keeping his alliance tag when there is no longer any reason to (in Dust/Eve). Rules for rules sake is nothing more than a leadership circle-jerk that can easily isolate your line members. KISS and following a trickle-down mentality creates cohesion, dedication and functionality while not stomping out individual corp culture. But thats me, to each their own. +1

Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2030	Posted - 2014.01.19 05:47:00 - [31] - Quote NobIesse Oblige wrote: CookieStein wrote: HmmGÇªme thinks your veiled condescending tone still doesn't mask the fact that your 'policies' are pretty 'cookie-cutter' when it boils down to it. If working with a top-down structure, a full charter of policy and operating procedures is what you want then good for you guys, if it works then carry on. I highly doubt that players and corps switch allegiances in Dust all that much more than in Eve (shall we discuss TEST?) and that difference between the two can be accounted by the difference in mentality between a point-and-click space sim and a FPSGÇªthat will never change. Its funny to me how the corps/alliances that one can consider 'Eve born' have maintained this attitude of "when it matters"GÇªhow did that work out for Subdreddit? Your statement of All For One And One For All is nice but holds no weight until you have been tested by bloody, bloody warGÇªthat attitude/belief has never been executed better than by EoN when we were at our peak before too many players went on to much greener pastures than Dust will have for a long long time. EoNBrosBestBros is an attitude I will always have but the time came when there was little reason for us to maintain EoN tagsGÇªsomeone like Ydubbs will always have mad respect from me for being a stubborn bastard and keeping his alliance tag when there is no longer any reason to (in Dust/Eve). Rules for rules sake is nothing more than a leadership circle-jerk that can easily isolate your line members. KISS and following a trickle-down mentality creates cohesion, dedication and functionality while not stomping out individual corp culture. But thats me, to each their own. +1 Everyone runs their alliances differently I could trash talk about CI but I like Zatara and Co as well OSG, DBSA, and Gunfall A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
NobIesse Oblige Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 48	Posted - 2014.01.19 05:58:00 - [32] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: Everyone runs their alliances differently I could trash talk about CI but I like Zatara and Co as well OSG, DBSA, and Gunfall You could trash talk CI?! Checks the rule book for a rebuttal. No you can't!
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2030	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:01:00 - [33] - Quote NobIesse Oblige wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Everyone runs their alliances differently I could trash talk about CI but I like Zatara and Co as well OSG, DBSA, and Gunfall You could trash talk CI?! Checks the rule book for a rebuttal. No you can't! I try to keep quiet I don't mind laying trash out v EoN because I'm ex-EoN I respect CI and FA but I don't take kindly to TM bashing A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
Nomed Deeps The Exemplars Top Men. 270	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:08:00 - [34] - Quote excillon wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: The previous corporation I was in left Top Men because they didn't like how you ran things and tried to influence a lot of what we did not giving us a lot of breathing room to do things our way. . This X1000. As a former top men member I fully agree. So do the other two who left with me and we were all vets with at least 10 mil sp. No offense but you think you're so different, but you're not. @ excillon - While you were with XMPLR, you had little to do with the corp and even less to do with the alliance. If you knew anything about either, you would know I am a General where you agreeing with Benjamin really make no sense. XMPLR: "With Honor, Courage, and Loyalty; We Are One" DUST 514 Corps
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1157	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:30:00 - [35] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: I try to keep quiet I don't mind laying trash out v EoN because I'm ex-EoN I respect CI and FA but I don't take kindly to TM bashing Hey, I started this thread bashing probably half the other alliances in the game, I expect a fair share dished back. Welcome to the War Room, Killar. ;) I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2031	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:34:00 - [36] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Killar-12 wrote: I try to keep quiet I don't mind laying trash out v EoN because I'm ex-EoN I respect CI and FA but I don't take kindly to TM bashing Hey, I started this thread bashing probably half the other alliances in the game, I expect a fair share dished back. Welcome to the War Room, Killar. ;) I have 2000 likes I know what I'm doing A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
Spartacus Dust The-Legionnaires The CORVOS 46	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:37:00 - [37] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: Killar-12 wrote: I like Top Men they're certainly not as condescending or totalitarian as some have suggested, we're going to get plenty of you unreliable ISK hungry people who will jump corps to get on whatever bandwagon. Top Men's a bit more EVE oriented but it doesn't mean that we can't fight we stay on PFC because PC isn't really a huge priority, sure getting training is about all we can do but these wars are jokes, we've got plenty of ISK (that we can't use). The thing is, is that we've got issues our US side isn't the greatest, or most active but we've shown up before our corps all have had districts. Well it sounds like you guys are good enough to move out of PFC. Or are you there just to farm isk which you say you don't need? Why dont you graciously leave PFC and come into MH? Pot calling the kettle black, congrats, you have a lot of districts, and are currently farming isk. I dunno why you would complain about 1 whole district on PFC. Candidate for CPM1, ONE UNIVERSE//ONE WAR
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 550	Posted - 2014.01.19 14:38:00 - [38] - Quote kiarbanor wrote: Since I'm being indirectly discussed in this thread, I will give my honest opinion of Top Men. They have extremely great organization and knowledge. And if you relate well with that type of personality, I highly recommend them. I met and played with some great people in this alliance. The reason Se\7eN left, to put it simply, is because we could not agree with how decisions were made. It was just a difference in opinions. We thought an alliance was for individual corps to remain individual but have more resources when required. Our opinion was that others in the alliance thought an alliance was one giant corp. I truly miss some of the players still there, and I wish nothing but good fortune to the Top Men alliance. Happy Gaming!!! Many good points so far. The determining factor that I can see is a fine line between control and balance. Each corp must maintain it's individuality and persona within the alliance and not be overpowered by one or larger corps within the alliance. If not it is nothing more than a tyrannical dictatorship led by one expecting the others to follow, wrong approach. Discontent is a very strong factor in breakdowns and will destroy an alliance from within, as we have all seen. To many corps join an alliance to quickly, go to the strongest or FOTM alliance and rule the heavens, only to find out it doesn't fit your players and tends for bad blood in the alliance and tears your corp apart. Treating an alliance like a large corp is the best way to success only if you find other corps with like minded ideas and realistic goals you can all work towards together while each corp maintains it's own identity within, as one corps strength can help another corps weakness. This will help build you a back bone based on trust as you really get to know each other. Regular alliance leadership meetings can keep a lot of BS from happening if the joint leadership stays focused on realistic goals and knows another corps intentions before it takes action, not after, it could lead to a war the rest of the alliance may not wish to partake in. CEO'S, quietly building... CEO Invictus Maneo~ "I remain unvanquished"
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1159	Posted - 2014.01.19 14:55:00 - [39] - Quote Spartacus Dust, as a note, recently we've had two opponents no-show us (from major DUST corps, at that), and one corp we fought, but they brought so many clones that beating them refilled our clones. We're certainly in the market for good fights, and you should feel more than welcome to give us a fight. We aren't the kettle. :) I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2869	Posted - 2014.01.26 00:14:00 - [40] - Quote CookieStein wrote: Its funny to me how the corps/alliances that one can consider 'Eve born' have maintained this attitude of "when it matters"GÇªhow did that work out for Subdreddit? I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean by "this attitude of 'when it matters' "... but I'd say we're doing just fine. I mean, we've had a lot of fall off, but we've still got a healthy number of people engaged in the corp (rivaling the size of all but the largest), still have at least 20+ guys on IRC every day playing Dust and other games together, etc. Sure, our numbers and player interest will always mirror that of the general audience for Dust, since we are a relatively casual corp with open membership to anyone with the proper credentials, but if you're looking for a corp to disparage I'm not sure we're the one you're looking for. We've been here since before Corporations were even available in Dust 514 and we're sure to still be around as many more of the FoTM corps rise and fall.

Sheriff Clark The Office of The Forum Sheriff 127	Posted - 2014.01.26 01:21:00 - [41] - Quote Moving thread to Recruitment. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=855 -----------------------------------------------This Thread is LOCKED until the move completes.----------------------------------------------
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1143	Posted - 2014.01.26 05:15:00 - [42] - Quote I've already taken care of making an alliance that matters.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2086	Posted - 2014.01.26 05:27:00 - [43] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: CookieStein wrote: Its funny to me how the corps/alliances that one can consider 'Eve born' have maintained this attitude of "when it matters"GÇªhow did that work out for Subdreddit? I'm not quite sure I understand what is meant by "this attitude of 'when it matters' "... but I'd say we're doing just fine. I mean, we've had a lot of fall off, but we've still got a healthy number of people engaged in the corp (rivaling the size of all but the largest), still have at least 20+ guys on IRC every day playing Dust and other games together, etc. Sure, our numbers and player interest will always mirror that of the general audience for Dust, since we are a relatively casual corp with open membership to anyone with the proper credentials, but if you're looking for a corp to disparage I'm not sure we're the one you're looking for. We've been here since before Corporations were even available in Dust 514 and we're sure to still be around as many more of the FoTM corps rise and fall. To be fair, the OP was much too long and tryhard-ish for me to bother reading (I was just skimming the thread and happened upon your post), so if I'm misinterpreting your comments as disparaging and you were really just making some broader point in response to the nonsense, then carry on. Frankly, I think I agree with your overarching point, if I'm understanding correctly what that point is. There really is no reason to worry about goofy roleplaying alliances (which is all they are in Dust 514), unless you are just into roleplaying. Otherwise, aside from that aspect, there isn't any reason for a bunch of alliances and rules, it's just mental ************ with no purpose. Let the dead be dead... ALSO I agree with sheriff this ought to be in recruitment. A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2870	Posted - 2014.01.26 05:31:00 - [44] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: Let the dead be dead... ALSO I agree with sheriff this ought to be in recruitment. Seems like pointless trash to me, so it's perfect for the War Room.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2086	Posted - 2014.01.26 05:36:00 - [45] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Let the dead be dead... ALSO I agree with sheriff this ought to be in recruitment. Seems like pointless trash to me, so it's perfect for the War Room. I was complaining to you about necroing this I can't find a thread with the 5-7 that were necroed to the front A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2870	Posted - 2014.01.26 05:51:00 - [46] - Quote It's only a week old. How often do you expect people to read the posts here?
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2086	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:43:00 - [47] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: It's only a week old. How often do you expect people to read the posts here? War Room people... who have no lives... often... A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
NobIesse Oblige Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 89	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:47:00 - [48] - Quote cause when you give a **** more about what's said about your corp on the forums...than the actual game itself.


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