DUST Search - Dust 514, Combat Culture Shift.

Joseph Ridgeson wrote:

Iron Wolf Saber, how dare you call yourself a Caldari and NOT capitalize the State in every instance. Further on your transgressions against the State, you have stated that the Gallente Federation, may they be torn apart by their beloved 'freedoms', has the smallest military. This is untrue. The Caldari Navy is the smallest fleet but we consist of the most ships specifically designed for war, Battleships. You have failed. You will find a Tant+ì in your living quarters tonight.

(Yes, the entire thing is meant as a joke. The Caldari are the most ruthless culture. Imagine super capitalistic Ayn Rand mixed with the discipline of Japanese samurai. Seriously, the leader of the Caldari State ordered someone to commit ritualistic suicide. They are a most cheery culture)

Great post. I honestly think the best thing about EVE is it's story. Better than the fighting or any gameplay that the developers designed. If there was every a game that deserved an HBO television series, it would be EVE. Think Game of Thrones with interstellar warfare.

I am not really sure how much of the State's, Federation's, Empire's, or Republic's philosophy will translate to a FPS, especially considering many of the more traditional weapons like the Gallente's drones or the Caldari's missile technology don't really cross over that well. It is all good stating that the Caldari generally favor being bullheaded and face tanking everything with their Shields but in a FPS where everyone is going to do the same amount of damage (more or less), I assume that being big and slow would end up crippling them.

Still, any post that brings up the four races philosophies gets a +1 by me. Truly wonderful.

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Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12213	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:37:00 - [1] - Quote As many of you noted that the recent changes in the new suits stands out to change the way you play while this is grounds for reissuing spent sp into those suits and skills (and possibly weapons as well) that is an argument elsewhere. What is probably miffing quite a few of you is the shifting combat culture. For those most familiar with eve online can see the reasonings of the shift but those born and breed into Dust 514 may fail to fully understand the shift so I will explain where the combat mantras are going and give you a slight lore reason behind them. Amarr Amarrians faith in their own combat prowess is nearly equal to that of their faith. They invest in things that relentlessly work when all else fails, which is why they have affinity for the infallible armor. Amarrians also believe in bringing the wrath of their god on heathens and that their god will reward persistence. They are slow, relentless, resilient, deadly, and at times nearly unstoppable. Shift into armor defenses (and should on case by case remain unmatched in armor amounts and accommodations for it) and plating should be to no surprise, their laser weaponry has some of the best ammo efficiency out there and it would not surprise me if the amarrians can fit the a gank to match their tanks at the same time. +Most Amor HP lowest mobility +High Damage low ammo consumption Energy Weapons +Defensive Tactics +Relentless Aggression Caldari Caldari being the smallest of the stellar nations in New Eden has not changed their ways in their nationalism and the need to defend the state at any and all costs even if it meant the loss of rights and life. State however does not squader resources either, every bit precious and potential and there is not enough to go around. So the State overemphasizes efficiency and technological advances above comfort and luxury and because of this are considered the most highly advanced and most disciplined living race of New Eden. Thier weapons reach out further and hit harder than any other races, which is to not avoid conflict but all part of their plan to win 'any conflict' to eliminate threats before they can become a threat, and when things do become a threat still be able to deal with it situation in superior electronics and shielding. Caldari have always stood their ground in the past and their stubborn culture refuses retreat when the possibility of a net gain is to be made. +Most Shield HP low mobility +High Damage and Long range Kinetic Weapons +Defensive Tactics +Intel Warfare Gallente Gallente despite being one of the larger nations has the smallest military force due to the fact it only consists purely of volunteers. Gallente spare no expense to ensure their defenders of freedom come back home in one piece. Gallente enjoy the reliability of armor and have worked consistently to find ways to increase their means of staying out of harms way and reducing risks as much as possible in combat. Due to Gallante's natural design affinity most of the equipment used is naturally easier to stealth while providing more efficient armor use. While drones have been successful in reducing lost lives a past mistake made the drones too intelligent leading to the loss of three entire regions to the infestation and since then the Gallente are hesitant to use autonomous drones which is almost a requirement for battleground conditions versus those in battlespace. Despite this many of the breakthroughs in drones has led to many automated suit functions thus increasing their means of customization and optimization. +High mobility armor tanking that focuses on repair over raw HP. +Highest Damage per shot but shortest range +Skirmishing Tactics +Intel Warfare Minmatar Minmatar being one of newer nations had yet time to build up any industry and infrastructure to truly support an army or navy during war and had not time to be considerate of what is needed on the field but getting stuff on the field period. Coupled with a lower education base the Minmatar are painfully aware that high tech methods would be impractical for them to employ often. So turning to tired and true technologies the Minmatar have constructed an army of what works and what works well after being beaten, bashed, dragged through sunscorched hell to frozen cracks that any layman fighting for the republic can pick up, quickly service and is in action with the gear. Minmatar are not above using other's equipment when it be on loan or stolen, and their own equipment has an unmatched for tenacity and and ferocity and ultimately adaptability to every situation. +Highest Mobility, Hybrid Tanks able to shift to either end of the spectrum or use a mix of both +Highest damage compression of weapons but lacks finesse and accuracy +Skirmish and Subterfuge Tactics +Flexible Warfare As you can see these newer suits are beginning to align with the space warfare mantras better while retaining the needs for a first person shooter. This has a compounding effect of creating a more consistent universe instead of the weird exceptions and changes between battlespace and battleground. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Tectonic Fusion 975	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:38:00 - [2] - Quote kk Solo Player Squad status: Locked
Aisha Ctarl Pradox One Proficiency V. 2894	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:40:00 - [3] - Quote Thanks for clearing this up for those who may not be familiar with EVE IWS. Like you said, we all that are familiar with EVE understand why the change were made while others may have been left in the dark. +1 for clarification Aisha Ctarl for CPM1
Syeven Reed RETR0 PR0 GAMERS INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 255	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:44:00 - [4] - Quote Glad to be Minmatar! Gÿé Syeven 514
Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 1935	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:44:00 - [5] - Quote So many months of fighting to be true amarr and it is finally working, i might cry. Selling Templar BPO 300Mil Earn 50Mil+ ISK in Dust
Galthur Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 238	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:44:00 - [6] - Quote PVE confirmed 1.8 Get recruits for me, receive millions of ISK. Buying BPO Codes. [Forum Level: 8] [Scamming Level: 3]
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2615	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:50:00 - [7] - Quote Nice write up. Thanks. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 907	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:51:00 - [8] - Quote I always thought the Caldari were highly mobile, o,o but it makes sense with the Rail Rifle that they're not... It's not a run and gun weapon. Anyways, yeah this was extremely helpful. I kinda knew most of this already but people constantly suggested we should have "exceptions" and so a brief thread like this was needed. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2615	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:54:00 - [9] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: I always thought the Caldari were highly mobile, o,o but it makes sense with the Rail Rifle that they're not... It's not a run and gun weapon. Anyways, yeah this was extremely helpful. I kinda knew most of this already but people constantly suggested we should have "exceptions" and so a brief thread like this was needed. There are always exceptions and these are just generalizations. The assault rifle variant concept is a good example of this of one race attempting to copy the styles of the others but not being quite as successful. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 4378	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:54:00 - [10] - Quote Pretty good overall. I will however add that Gallente actually (generally) have the highest raw DPS (still at short range) while the Minmatar have access to the highest alpha, and have very flexible ranges due to high amounts of falloff. All of these points won't necessarily translate over to DUST exactly, but it's a good primer for anyone that hasn't played EVE Online and is wondering how the races sit there. CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics


Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1063	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:55:00 - [11] - Quote Great! Now let's apply that Caldari logic to shield missile tanks and rail turrets. Because the missile has crap for range vs. survivability of the tank and the designs of the map. Why is a madrugar a better tank with missiles and rail? Actually, why can a Gal tank fit a missile or rail turret so easily AND a good defense AND damage mods? Even at range a gunnlogi loses to a madrugar due to taking more damage through the hardeners. Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10094	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:56:00 - [12] - Quote Slightly off topic, but since you mentioned it. If you don't refund weapon skills, heavies will have to stay heavies Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Dropship Pilot
steadyhand amarr Bragian Order Amarr Empire 2164	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:56:00 - [13] - Quote Galthur wrote: PVE confirmed 1.8 Pish not likey PvE would get a ton of fuss. This iorn wolf being iron wolf before being a cpm :-) "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6478	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:59:00 - [14] - Quote Winmatar FTW! OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1259	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:59:00 - [15] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Caldari +Intel Warfare Gallente +Denial of Intel Warfare I thought the Caldari excelled in the use of ECM. Wouldn't that count as denial of intel warfare? 1.8 can't get here soon enough.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 907	Posted - 2014.01.17 18:01:00 - [16] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: I always thought the Caldari were highly mobile, o,o but it makes sense with the Rail Rifle that they're not... It's not a run and gun weapon. Anyways, yeah this was extremely helpful. I kinda knew most of this already but people constantly suggested we should have "exceptions" and so a brief thread like this was needed. There are always exceptions and these are just generalizations. The assault rifle variant concept is a good example of this of one race attempting to copy the styles of the others but not being quite as successful. Don't speak about the AR It has the lowest DPS right now despite the fact that it should. But yeah, I mean major exceptions are the issue here. Amarr should have a focus on Armor Tanking with their suits. I can take the Armor Rep bonus for them because it'll help even out things in the end and plus an Amarr assault would probably only use 1 rep anyway. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2617	Posted - 2014.01.17 18:04:00 - [17] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Don't speak about the AR It has the lowest DPS right now despite the fact that it should. I don't run AR much anymore but I do feel bad for it. It should melt your face at close range. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 468	Posted - 2014.01.17 18:04:00 - [18] - Quote If the gallente are supoosed to be more mobile than caldari/amarr could we then please buff their stamina or speed to reflect this stat wise?
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 863	Posted - 2014.01.17 18:04:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Pretty good overall. I will however add that Gallente actually (generally) have the highest raw DPS (still at short range) while the Minmatar have access to the highest alpha, and have very flexible ranges due to high amounts of falloff. All of these points won't necessarily translate over to DUST exactly, but it's a good primer for anyone that hasn't played EVE Online and is wondering how the races sit there. Why would the technology inventors shift paradigms so drastically for infantry?
Reiki Jubo Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 281	Posted - 2014.01.17 18:07:00 - [20] - Quote really love the lore pls keep giving it to us. OAN: u need to add tons of lore to PVE and the tutorial so new players can choose a race based on what suits them.

Lucrezia LeGrand 225	Posted - 2014.01.17 18:13:00 - [21] - Quote Reiki Jubo wrote: really love the lore pls keep giving it to us. OAN: u need to add tons of lore to PVE and the tutorial so new players can choose a race based on what suits them. Yes please!!! Dust needs to have more connections with EVE. Not just gameplay but lore wise. Dust becomes so much more fun when it feels like you're part of a larger universe with heroes and villains, conspiracies, ideologies, hopeless causes, and epic adventures! ^__^ ya- hoi hoi
Dirks Macker Enlightened Infantries Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 119	Posted - 2014.01.17 18:15:00 - [22] - Quote While nice in theory, mixed squads don't have weaknesses that can be countered by switching into a race's foil. There is also no benefit for suiting up a squad to implement one of these doctrines. Maybe there needs to be leadership mods, that act like auras in other games, which only work on one race's suit. That's the only way I could think of to get people into a racial doctrine beyond sexy roleplay. Enlightened Indoctrination Blog
Dusters Blog Galactic News Network 561	Posted - 2014.01.17 18:17:00 - [23] - Quote Reiki Jubo wrote: really love the lore pls keep giving it to us. OAN: u need to add tons of lore to PVE and the tutorial so new players can choose a race based on what suits them. would really love to see game modes based on the lore as well. those of u who havent read templar one by tony gonzalez really should.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1585	Posted - 2014.01.17 18:17:00 - [24] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Pretty good overall. I will however add that Gallente actually (generally) have the highest raw DPS (still at short range) while the Minmatar have access to the highest alpha, and have very flexible ranges due to high amounts of falloff. All of these points won't necessarily translate over to DUST exactly, but it's a good primer for anyone that hasn't played EVE Online and is wondering how the races sit there. And when will this start working because so far the Caldari and the Minmatar have the best ranges. While the Amarr laser and Gallentr rifle are crap.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 908	Posted - 2014.01.17 18:23:00 - [25] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Pretty good overall. I will however add that Gallente actually (generally) have the highest raw DPS (still at short range) while the Minmatar have access to the highest alpha, and have very flexible ranges due to high amounts of falloff. All of these points won't necessarily translate over to DUST exactly, but it's a good primer for anyone that hasn't played EVE Online and is wondering how the races sit there. And when will this start working because so far the Caldari and the Minmatar have the best ranges. While the Amarr laser and Gallentr rifle are crap. o-o hmm? Minmatar doesn't have the better range. It's still a mid-range-CQC geared weapon but the AR should be better. The Amarr's Scramble Rifle has as much range as the Rail Rifle. Considering the Minmatar's Combat Rifle hits hard with it's semi-strikes, I'd say it's pretty close to having the "best" alpha or start-off damage but it depends on the Amarr's Scramble Rifle if it becomes the best. The Gallente needs to be buffed in the right places but I'm sure CCP knows that. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4669	Posted - 2014.01.17 18:28:00 - [26] - Quote Looks like they're taking the right path with Gallente as far as defenses but offense is severely lacking at the moment. Assault Rifle: Outperformed by other racial rifles at the moment. Minute differences in DPS and even has lower DPS than the Assault Rail Rifle. Outclassed in range by all of them. Assault Combat Rifle has slightly longer range, comparable DPS and lower fitting costs. Should be the trump card of close-range rifles but it's lacking at the moment. Plasma Cannon: Lol. Single shot that has a very very slow projectile, more suitable for hitting slow heavies than fast moving vehicles. Damage is underwhelming considering the necessary skill involved. Shotgun: Lots of damage but absolutely horrible application with an optimal range of four meters. Common complaint is that it's too easy to distance yourself from the shotgun and I believe it considering many suits can walk out of the optimal range in less than a second. Close range is also a problem considering most targets can simply strafe out of the reticle. Ion Pistol: Looks promising but if the description is true and it overheats/seizes from firing a single fully-charged shot, it'll be outperformed greatly by other sidearms. High damage shot but considering how skill intensive it is to land said shot and hope it kills the target, less you suffer several seconds of being unable to do anything while it cools down, makes it a rather undesirable weapon. TL;DR: I'd suggest working to make Gallente small arms more rewarding considering how skill intensive they are to use. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Dusters Blog Galactic News Network 561	Posted - 2014.01.17 18:29:00 - [27] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Pretty good overall. I will however add that Gallente actually (generally) have the highest raw DPS (still at short range) while the Minmatar have access to the highest alpha, and have very flexible ranges due to high amounts of falloff. All of these points won't necessarily translate over to DUST exactly, but it's a good primer for anyone that hasn't played EVE Online and is wondering how the races sit there. And when will this start working because so far the Caldari and the Minmatar have the best ranges. While the Amarr laser and Gallentr rifle are crap. not necessarily crap but definitely designed with more limitations. Gal weapons should have adv in close range and Amarr laser rifle should have more range than anything but sniper rifle.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 324	Posted - 2014.01.17 18:54:00 - [28] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber, how dare you call yourself a Caldari and NOT capitalize the State in every instance. Further on your transgressions against the State, you have stated that the Gallente Federation, may they be torn apart by their beloved 'freedoms', has the smallest military. This is untrue. The Caldari Navy is the smallest fleet but we consist of the most ships specifically designed for war, Battleships. You have failed. You will find a Tant+ì in your living quarters tonight. (Yes, the entire thing is meant as a joke. The Caldari are the most ruthless culture. Imagine super capitalistic Ayn Rand mixed with the discipline of Japanese samurai. Seriously, the leader of the Caldari State ordered someone to commit ritualistic suicide. They are a most cheery culture) Great post. I honestly think the best thing about EVE is it's story. Better than the fighting or any gameplay that the developers designed. If there was every a game that deserved an HBO television series, it would be EVE. Think Game of Thrones with interstellar warfare. I am not really sure how much of the State's, Federation's, Empire's, or Republic's philosophy will translate to a FPS, especially considering many of the more traditional weapons like the Gallente's drones or the Caldari's missile technology don't really cross over that well. It is all good stating that the Caldari generally favor being bullheaded and face tanking everything with their Shields but in a FPS where everyone is going to do the same amount of damage (more or less), I assume that being big and slow would end up crippling them. Still, any post that brings up the four races philosophies gets a +1 by me. Truly wonderful.
Tyjus Vacca Valor Coalition 80	Posted - 2014.01.17 19:08:00 - [29] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Iron Wolf Saber, how dare you call yourself a Caldari and NOT capitalize the State in every instance. Further on your transgressions against the State, you have stated that the Gallente Federation, may they be torn apart by their beloved 'freedoms', has the smallest military. This is untrue. The Caldari Navy is the smallest fleet but we consist of the most ships specifically designed for war, Battleships. You have failed. You will find a Tant+ì in your living quarters tonight. (Yes, the entire thing is meant as a joke. The Caldari are the most ruthless culture. Imagine super capitalistic Ayn Rand mixed with the discipline of Japanese samurai. Seriously, the leader of the Caldari State ordered someone to commit ritualistic suicide. They are a most cheery culture) Great post. I honestly think the best thing about EVE is it's story. Better than the fighting or any gameplay that the developers designed. If there was every a game that deserved an HBO television series, it would be EVE. Think Game of Thrones with interstellar warfare. I am not really sure how much of the State's, Federation's, Empire's, or Republic's philosophy will translate to a FPS, especially considering many of the more traditional weapons like the Gallente's drones or the Caldari's missile technology don't really cross over that well. It is all good stating that the Caldari generally favor being bullheaded and face tanking everything with their Shields but in a FPS where everyone is going to do the same amount of damage (more or less), I assume that being big and slow would end up crippling them. Still, any post that brings up the four races philosophies gets a +1 by me. Truly wonderful. agreed, really REALLY hope the gallente drones make it in. they could be stick with u like they do in psn home and provide small passive bonuses to dmg/ammo/healing. do i shoot the guy or the drones flying around his head buffing him? decisions...decisions...
Vanven 6	Posted - 2014.01.17 20:05:00 - [30] - Quote Wow!!! this is amazing Lore info! It builds my pride for the Gallente Federation, as well as having an insight overview for other Factions. I'd encourage if you could post more Lore about Dust and its Factions Iron Wolf Saber PS: YOU'RE THE BEST!!!



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