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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tech De Ra
Electronic Sports League
283
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Posted - 2014.01.20 09:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
While the theory is sound, the amarr scout already has 10% more stamina and 33% more regen over caldari and gallente before you factor any bonuses
At level 5 supports and scout, the amarr has 295 stamina and 52.5 regen, 52.5 regen is INSANELY HIGH
Under the proposed change to 100% to both stats, this would end up as 472.5 and 84 regen (for every 47 seconds of sprint, you need 6 seconds to regen it to full), Bare in mind that this is a scout that, at proto level, can reach 1000 hp without seriously denting its cpu and pg, there is more than enough left over for an (R) type nanohive, another equip and 2 weapons of choice
Even as a runner scout, this would again be extremely unbalanced, there would be nothing stopping you fitting 3 sprint speed mods and becoming about as fast as a minny scout with higher stamina, regen and base health
I do not support this idea
Tech De Ra for CPM1
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Tech De Ra
Electronic Sports League
283
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Posted - 2014.01.20 09:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Tech De Ra wrote:While the theory is sound, the amarr scout already has 10% more stamina and 33% more regen over caldari and gallente before you factor any bonuses
At level 5 supports and scout, the amarr has 295 stamina and 52.5 regen, 52.5 regen is INSANELY HIGH
Under the proposed change to 100% to both stats, this would end up as 472.5 and 84 regen (for every 47 seconds of sprint, you need 6 seconds to regen it to full), Bare in mind that this is a scout that, at proto level, can reach 1000 hp without seriously denting its cpu and pg, there is more than enough left over for an (R) type nanohive, another equip and 2 weapons of choice
Even as a runner scout, this would again be extremely unbalanced, there would be nothing stopping you fitting 3 sprint speed mods and becoming about as fast as a minny scout with higher stamina, regen and base health
I do not support this idea
What fool would try to use a 1000HP scout......you might as well run the Commando, or Logi.
much smaller hit box, more stamina, more equipment slots than commando, when you dont need the logi/commando bonuses, more speed, better hacking speed, better regen stats (shield, stamina)
Tech De Ra for CPM1
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Tech De Ra
Electronic Sports League
283
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Posted - 2014.01.20 09:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Have you even looked at CPU/PG for this or are you just assuming because you have slots you can fit whatever you want?
After skills, the ak.0 has 446 CPU and 92 PG
3 complex plates, 1 advanced plate, 2 complex shield extenders: 218 CPU and 64 PG used
adding a K17/D (R) hive: 265 cpu and 76 PG used
220 shield, 779 armor, 2 weapon slots, a grenade slot and an equip slot free, with 181 CPU and 16 PG free to fit them
You should know me enough by now Aero that i don't comment on things that i can't back up :P
Tech De Ra for CPM1
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Tech De Ra
Electronic Sports League
283
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Posted - 2014.01.20 10:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Tech De Ra wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Have you even looked at CPU/PG for this or are you just assuming because you have slots you can fit whatever you want? After skills, the ak.0 has 446 CPU and 92 PG 3 complex plates, 1 advanced plate, 2 complex shield extenders: 218 CPU and 64 PG used adding a K17/D (R) hive: 265 cpu and 76 PG used 220 shield, 779 armor, 2 weapon slots and an equip slot free, with 181 CPU and 16 PG free to fit them You should know me enough by now Aero that i don't comment on things that i can't back up :P So what about the total HP if you do the same for the other suits? And what do you think the Amarr bonus should be? Do you think it is right that all other scouts get a bonus equivalent to a complex module plus a secondary bonus while Amarr only gets something not even as good as a standard module? If you think giving them a complex cardiac regulator free would be unfair, than what other complex mod do you think would be a better replacement?
Gallente gets 50 hp less (949), caldari gets 188 less (811) but has a little cpu issue when you add other items, minmatar gets 143 less (856) but has PG issues
Personally I would scrap the stamina bonus and grant a clipsize increase on the scrambler pistols, basically moving the old clipsize bonus from the minny assault, put it on the amarr scout
Tech De Ra for CPM1
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Tech De Ra
Electronic Sports League
283
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Posted - 2014.01.20 10:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Tech De Ra wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Have you even looked at CPU/PG for this or are you just assuming because you have slots you can fit whatever you want? After skills, the ak.0 has 446 CPU and 92 PG 3 complex plates, 1 advanced plate, 2 complex shield extenders: 218 CPU and 64 PG used adding a K17/D (R) hive: 265 cpu and 76 PG used 220 shield, 779 armor, 2 weapon slots, a grenade slot and an equip slot free, with 181 CPU and 16 PG free to fit them You should know me enough by now Aero that i don't comment on things that i can't back up :P So I took the liberty to do the same thing with the gk.0. After skills it has 433 CPU and 97 PG 3 complex plates, 1 advanced plate, 2 complex shield extenders: 218 CPU and 64 PG used adding a K17/D (R) hive: 265 CPU and 76 PG used 233 shield, 729 armor, 2 weapon slots, a grenade slot, and an equip slot free with 168 CPU and 21 PG free to fit them That is 37 less EHP, 13 less CPU, 5 more PG, and faster than the Amarr scout. So yeah, tell me how this argument of Amarr being so combat ready that it doesn't deserve a bonus equivalent to a complex mod, yet the Gal scout is arguably more combat ready and can get a bonus equivalent to a complex mod plus a secondary bonus.
at no point did i say the amarr scout doesn't deservse better bonuses, i merely stated that if your proposal went ahead, the amarr would have the same stats as gallente but double stamina and over double stamina regen, which may outstrip a minny scout at being the runner at the start of a match
Tech De Ra for CPM1
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Tech De Ra
Electronic Sports League
283
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Posted - 2014.01.20 10:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Tech De Ra wrote:
at no point did i say the amarr scout doesn't deservse better bonuses, i merely stated that if your proposal went ahead, the amarr would have the same stats as gallente but double stamina and over double stamina regen, which may outstrip a minny scout at being the runner at the start of a match
The Amarr scout would have similar stats but over double the Gallente's stamina, but the Gallente would have similar stats and a far more reduced profile signature and increased scan radius.
The amarr scout already has nearly 50% more stamina and nearly double the stamina regen,
While the gallente is getting a nice profile sig reduction, scanners are also getting buffed by way of the new gal logi bonuses and has a counter, stamina and its regen does not have a counter
Tech De Ra for CPM1
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Tech De Ra
Electronic Sports League
283
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Posted - 2014.01.20 10:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Tech De Ra wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Tech De Ra wrote:
at no point did i say the amarr scout doesn't deservse better bonuses, i merely stated that if your proposal went ahead, the amarr would have the same stats as gallente but double stamina and over double stamina regen, which may outstrip a minny scout at being the runner at the start of a match
The Amarr scout would have similar stats but over double the Gallente's stamina, but the Gallente would have similar stats and a far more reduced profile signature and increased scan radius. The amarr scout already has nearly 50% more stamina and nearly double the stamina regen, While the gallente is getting a nice profile sig reduction, scanners are also getting buffed by way of the new gal logi bonuses and has a counter, stamina and its regen does not have a counter So you are saying that because 1 suit has a bonus to scanners that is fine when you consider leaving the Amarr suit with sub par bonuses, because as it stand the Gal Scout will evadae Adv scanners with no points invested into Profile dampening. And frankly speaking when you consider the scouts already have more biotic potential than assaults....... the ability to go unseen on passive and active scans is far more valuable.
again, I am not against changing the current bonus to amarr scouts as i stated in a previous post
Tech De Ra for CPM1
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Tech De Ra
Electronic Sports League
284
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Posted - 2014.01.20 10:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
Do you consider it unreasonable to give Amarr scouts a complex Cardiac Regulator as the level 5 bonus? For upwards of 3 million SP and only one specific bonus as compared to the Gal, Cal, and Min bonuses we deserve something worthwhile.
I am against the notion of a scout suit with health near that of a base heavy, or commando, being able to run for almost 50 seconds straight, stopping for 5 seconds, then running 50 seconds straight again. The sheer amount of mobility that provides for something that is supposed to be the least mobile race of the 4 races simply makes no sense
I have proposed another bonus in another post which was that of a clip size increase for the scrambler pistol, while people will complain that this is forcing a combat role on the scout, bare in mind that the amarr has a combat lore and it is reflected in its logi, the only logi that has a sidearm.
Aero Yassavi wrote:Tech De Ra wrote: again, I am not against changing the current bonus to amarr scouts as i stated in a previous post, i am merely against raising the bonus to that of a complex stamina mod
Then how about you put a little more effort into proposing a solution then?
Please read my earlier posts and you will find that i am, instead of trying to berate me for trying to explain my reasonings and attempting to stop you putting words in my mouth
Tech De Ra for CPM1
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Tech De Ra
Electronic Sports League
284
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Posted - 2014.01.20 10:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Tech De Ra, my apologies for missing this bit as this thread has been moving quickly Tech De Ra wrote: Personally I would scrap the stamina bonus and grant a clipsize increase on the scrambler pistols, basically moving the old clipsize bonus from the minny assault, put it on the amarr scout
Here's the problem with this 1) Clipsize increase is already the Scrambler Pistol Operations skill, so this becomes redundant 2) Every other scout gets a primary racial bonus equivalent to a complex mod plus a secondary bonus as well
I wouldn't say its redundant, giving it more ammo on top of its operation skill would provide a unique, lore freindly, bonus that would define the amarr scout
I understand your reasonings behind the bonuses, the theory is sound. But looking at the numbers (minny gets +37.5% hacking speed and 25% NK damage), caldari gets 25% precision, gal gets 25% damping, amarr gets about 45% more stamina and nearly 100% more regen over other scouts
Numbers wise, its pretty much all in line, The main problem is that some scouts get 2 bonuses to the amarr's one bonus, perhaps giving it another bonus on the side of its stamina bonus would be in order
Tech De Ra for CPM1
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Tech De Ra
Electronic Sports League
284
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Posted - 2014.01.20 11:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Tech De Ra wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Tech De Ra, my apologies for missing this bit as this thread has been moving quickly Tech De Ra wrote: Personally I would scrap the stamina bonus and grant a clipsize increase on the scrambler pistols, basically moving the old clipsize bonus from the minny assault, put it on the amarr scout
Here's the problem with this 1) Clipsize increase is already the Scrambler Pistol Operations skill, so this becomes redundant 2) Every other scout gets a primary racial bonus equivalent to a complex mod plus a secondary bonus as well I wouldn't say its redundant, giving it more ammo on top of its operation skill would provide a unique, lore freindly, bonus that would define the amarr scout I understand your reasonings behind the bonuses, the theory is sound. But looking at the numbers (minny gets +37.5% hacking speed and 25% NK damage), caldari gets 25% precision, gal gets 25% damping, amarr gets about 45% more stamina and nearly 100% more regen over other scouts Numbers wise, its pretty much all in line, The main problem is that some scouts get 2 bonuses to the amarr's one bonus, perhaps giving it another bonus on the side of its stamina bonus would be in order Wait, so what is it, clipsize or ammo capacity? The ops skill is already a bonus to clip size, another bonus is indeed absolutely redundant. Also, please forgive me if this sounds condescending because it is not my intention, but are you perhaps only worried about making the Amarr racial bonus equivalent to the complex cardiac regulator because it would have to be 20% per level and you are used to seeing racial bonuses that are only 5% per level? Quite frankly, there is a reason why the complex cardiac regulator has a bonus of 100% instead of just 25% like nearly every other complex mod. If you compare stamina with any other stat one-on-one, stamina is not as valuable linearly speaking. That is why the complex caridac regulator is 100% increase. So yes, while it may look like 100% increase in stamina isn't roughly the same value as 37.5% hacking speed, 25% precision, or 25% dampening, I assure you it indeed is. If you do not believe this to be the case, then you should probably go campaigning to get the value of the complex cardiac regulator reduced.
It could be either, I'm leaning towards ammo capacity because clip size would be a very imbalanced stat
I still wouldn't say its redundant, the majority of deaths i have is when i run into a group of enemies and fail to kill all of them because i need to reload, going from 11 to 16 shots is a very substantial bonus, considering the fire rate and damage of the pistol this would be far too powerful of a bonus.
it's not that the numbers need to match, its just that the amarr are supposed to have the lowest mobility of all the races, as it stands the regen allows it to run almost indefinately anyway, raising the bonus to that of a complex cardiac regulator would allow the scout to sprint pretty much non-stop. It just doesn't fit with the other amarr suits
Tech De Ra for CPM1
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Tech De Ra
Electronic Sports League
284
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Posted - 2014.01.20 11:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Through out both games the amarr have the lowest mobility of the races due to its armor and range of lasers
Amarr ships have the highest mass and therefore generally the highest align time and speeds, but they have amazing ranges and their capacitor systems are generally second to none
Amarr suits have the lowest speed but the stamina to allow them to sprint longer distances as other races, but over a longer period, this is its (current) trade off for having higher base hp
Giving the amarr scout even more stamina via the bonus would allow it to sprint much, MUCH further than other races using the same suit class, at the cost of having slightly lower speed but still a speed comparable with assault suits
Thats my reasoning of them having the lowest mobility, and why the scout wouldnt fit that ideal
Your comments on the pistols bonuses making the scout combat oriented doesn't take into account that the amarr logi, again, is also combat oriented.
Your list does highlight that no one has a cloaking bonus, bringing back the cloak cooldown bonus and having that along side the current bonus would be good
Tech De Ra for CPM1
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