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Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
186
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Posted - 2014.01.16 14:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
1.) Is there a way with 1.8 to include a feature that would allow trading from player to player? Not a player market, private trades.
2.) Is there a way with 1.8 to include a feature that would allow you to send an item in an alts inventory on your acct to another alt on the same acct? Whether isk, aur, bpo's, officer's, etc..would be nice for my FG alt to send all those Balac's to my AR alt.
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Ripley Riley
341
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Posted - 2014.01.16 14:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Such a thing exists in Eve, but you have to be in the same station as the person you want to trade with. Otherwise you must create a contract for them, they accept, then they must travel to the station to pick up the item. I don't know if CCP is planning on having us move around like capulseers, but if they do, we will have to store our stuff someplace and that will mean trading items will be as complex as trading items in Eve.
No matter how CCP chooses to implement this I hope they add some kind of ISK fee to the transfer. We need ISK sinks to keep inflation in check.
"I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
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Kovinis Sparagas
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
120
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Posted - 2014.01.16 14:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Player marker (and even trade) can't be made without us traveling and goods to be in some real physical location (in game physical)
So it's actually more complicated than it looks, because we can't travel yet...
I support BPO removal;
RDV to take your vehicles back;
and racial weapons on starter fits
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Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
6465
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Posted - 2014.01.16 14:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Travel will be an important factor here even in a feature as simple as a trade window.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
187
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Posted - 2014.01.16 14:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kovinis Sparagas wrote:Player marker (and even trade) can't be made without us traveling and goods to be in some real physical location (in game physical)
So it's actually more complicated than it looks, because we can't travel yet...
Really? How do they send us the items from the market? or from events? I'm by no means a computer whiz so I'm asking, it doesn't seem that hard to delete from one inventory and copy and paste to another (thought preferably not in that order).
We are all in the same locale (merc quarters) right? Or are we actually stationed in different parts of a vast universe? Since I can't leave that 10x10 cell block..err...i mean merc quarters, I figured we were all crammed in to one huge ****** merc hotel. |
Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
571
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Posted - 2014.01.16 14:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think your original question and the answers you are getting are different because:
Yes, I imagine from a code perspective you could take something from player A and put it into the inventory of player B... it's a simple SQL query (or whatever their backend is)..
but from a lore and strategic market perspective, it wouldn't make sense, and since CCP want to implement it correctly the first time, I think they want to have it mirror EVE (because it will also integrate into the EVE marketplace) so you'd have to have some way of getting the goods from your station (wherever that may be) to the other player's station (wherever he may be). Even if you have different players on the same account, they may be in difference races, so in different regions of space.
A local trade might be nice, but right now our mercs have no way to move around....
Personally I'd love if they just charged us a "courrier" fee, and we can just pretend some invisible courrier transfers our stuff around... of course this would later disappear and EVE courrier contracts might pick up the slack. Either way, I think the game desperately needs some way to trade.. even if it doesn't immediately make sense from a lore/practical perspective. |
Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
188
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Posted - 2014.01.16 14:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Justicar Karnellia wrote:I think your original question and the answers you are getting are different because:
Yes, I imagine from a code perspective you could take something from player A and put it into the inventory of player B... it's a simple SQL query (or whatever their backend is)..
but from a lore and strategic market perspective, it wouldn't make sense, and since CCP want to implement it correctly the first time, I think they want to have it mirror EVE (because it will also integrate into the EVE marketplace) so you'd have to have some way of getting the goods from your station (wherever that may be) to the other player's station (wherever he may be). Even if you have different players on the same account, they may be in difference races, so in different regions of space.
A local trade might be nice, but right now our mercs have no way to move around....
Personally I'd love if they just charged us a "courrier" fee, and we can just pretend some invisible courrier transfers our stuff around... of course this would later disappear and EVE courrier contracts might pick up the slack. Either way, I think the game desperately needs some way to trade.. even if it doesn't immediately make sense from a lore/practical perspective.
Thanks for a great response, but since when has CCP ever TRIED to do something right the first time???? |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1112
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Posted - 2014.01.16 15:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:We are all in the same locale (merc quarters) right? Or are we actually stationed in different parts of a vast universe? Since I can't leave that 10x10 cell block..err...i mean merc quarters, I figured we were all crammed in to one huge ****** merc hotel.
Merc quarters are actually on space stations scattered across half a dozen star systems in New Eden. That's why your Local chat does not contain all DUSTies, and does contain some EVE players.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
6468
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:Thanks for a great response, but since when has CCP ever TRIED to do something right the first time? They should at least allow players to trade between alts on the same account; if it is simply a matter of lore and hesitation of 'wanting to mimic eve' holding them back.
The Eve Online Secondary Market. That's what they got right the first time. And how did they get it right? Baby steps. The New Eden economy (Dust and Eve share New Eden) began very small. Prices often fluctuated but that was part of normal everyday life in the market due to the laws of Supply and Demand. At the same time, CCP does have an in-house economist or economic adviser who now has close to 10 years experience handling the New Eden economy. Yeah, it's gotten that complex now to require an economic adviser.
Back then, it was thought to be a joke to be an economist for an MMO. But ever since Eve Online became so heavily competitive and dynamic in so many ways, it has now become common practice other MMO companies to hire their own economists. If I recall correctly, I think the developers for Guild Wars did the same thing for their game. They even copied Eve Online's PLEX market onto Guild Wars 2. But because the Devs for GW2 didn't have the level of prudence and experience that CCP has, they kind of screwed up badly at launch causing GW2 to be rated as having the worst MMO economy back in 2012 while Eve Online ranked #1 in best MMO economy in the same year. I think they improved later on.
Anyways, to answer your question on locale, I will say that "no" we are not all located in the same region or system. Your default station will vary according to the Race, and Bloodline of your character. For example, a Gallentean will be located in a region within the Gallente Federation while a Matari will be located in the Minmatar Republic. Even if both characters are the same race, they can still be in a different station.
If we want to have effective trade from the start, we will need some way of either moving ourselves to different systems and regions, or some way of moving the assets the same way. NPC services will likely be implemented first with Eve-player couriers taking over later on.
PS: Industry will always play a role in this.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Dalmont Legrand
237
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Drapedup Drippedout wrote:We are all in the same locale (merc quarters) right? Or are we actually stationed in different parts of a vast universe? Since I can't leave that 10x10 cell block..err...i mean merc quarters, I figured we were all crammed in to one huge ****** merc hotel. Merc quarters are actually on space stations scattered across half a dozen star systems in New Eden. That's why your Local chat does not contain all DUSTies, and does contain some EVE players.
Thats is why your local has mercenaries of only your race and it contains all players that are in local system passing by.
I want quarters in Jita! I would pay rent for it.
P.S.: Making a trading corporation will be a thing in DUST, finally.
I hail all economics studs, join me and we will profit.
Of something nothing is everything.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
12159
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Technical hurdles are many and difficult. The workarounds required are questionable. Hopefully well see some progress though.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
6468
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dalmont Legrand wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Drapedup Drippedout wrote:We are all in the same locale (merc quarters) right? Or are we actually stationed in different parts of a vast universe? Since I can't leave that 10x10 cell block..err...i mean merc quarters, I figured we were all crammed in to one huge ****** merc hotel. Merc quarters are actually on space stations scattered across half a dozen star systems in New Eden. That's why your Local chat does not contain all DUSTies, and does contain some EVE players. Thats is why your local has mercenaries of only your race and it contains all players that are in local system passing by. I want quarters in Jita! I would pay rent for it.
You can also find Eve players who are Amarrian settling in Minmatar space.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
189
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Drapedup Drippedout wrote:Thanks for a great response, but since when has CCP ever TRIED to do something right the first time? They should at least allow players to trade between alts on the same account; if it is simply a matter of lore and hesitation of 'wanting to mimic eve' holding them back. The Eve Online Secondary Market. That's what they got right the first time. And how did they get it right? Baby steps. The New Eden economy (Dust and Eve share New Eden) began very small. Prices often fluctuated but that was part of normal everyday life in the market due to the laws of Supply and Demand. At the same time, CCP does have an in-house economist or economic adviser who now has close to 10 years experience handling the New Eden economy. Yeah, it's gotten that complex now to require an economic adviser. Back then, it was thought to be a joke to be an economist for an MMO. But ever since Eve Online became so heavily competitive and dynamic in so many ways, it has now become common practice other MMO companies to hire their own economists. If I recall correctly, I think the developers for Guild Wars did the same thing for their game. They even copied Eve Online's PLEX market onto Guild Wars 2. But because the Devs for GW2 didn't have the level of prudence and experience that CCP has, they kind of screwed up badly at launch causing GW2 to be rated as having the worst MMO economy back in 2012 while Eve Online ranked #1 in best MMO economy in the same year. I think they improved later on. Anyways, to answer your question on locale, I will say that "no" we are not all located in the same region or system. Your default station will vary according to the Race, and Bloodline of your character. For example, a Gallentean will be located in a region within the Gallente Federation while a Matari will be located in the Minmatar Republic. Even if both characters are the same race, they can still be in a different station. If we want to have effective trade from the start, we will need some way of either moving ourselves to different systems and regions, or some way of moving the assets the same way. NPC services will likely be implemented first with Eve-player couriers taking over later on. PS: Industry will always play a role in this.
So it seems like this is still pretty far off... I wonder if in the meantime they couldn't implement some kind of ISK 'mail' service. You send an item one day, and it arrives in 24 hrs with a C.O.D. fee in the recipients mailbox? I dunno, it just seems being able to trade items from P2P should be in a game that has random loot. Even if we don't have a player market just yet, as you touched on the market brings new 'professions' into New Eden. With such, there may be mercs that rely entirely on buying and selling or manufacturing for ISK instead of battle. However, in the meantime using the forums to barter and set up p2p through a mailing C.O.D. service would be nice IMO. But thanks for explaining this! +1 to you
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Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
6468
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
It shouldn't be too far at this point. If we should start right now, then there should at least be two things established. Method of travel/hauling between stations, and a simple trade window. But that has limits. This can only take you so far before you start wanting to establish things like buy/sell orders in an open market. To give you an idea how a full-blown market looks like in Eve, here is a video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-9nhCCScIw
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
961
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
P2P market should be coming to dust very soon (hopefully), as it is that the DEVs already have stated that they were reluctant to release the LP store without the P2P market, but that their decision to go ahead with the release was based on the fact that the P2P market would be following the LP store into dust in the very near future.
Honestly, I am hoping that the P2P will be in 1.8, or what ever they are calling it now, but I think that hope is a little high.
More realistically, I am expecting to see P2P introduced sometime around the middle of this year.
{:)}{3GÇó>
Please help me save the Gal scout!:
linky
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Avallo Kantor
Scions of Athra
305
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Posted - 2014.01.16 17:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Let me attempt to explain why "temporary" measures are generally a bad idea for features that are this large.
Let's use something a bit more concrete as an example. Let's say you are building a giant castle (or skyscraper) and this will take countless hours and hours of work, and all of your manpower (for the castle building team).
Temporary measures are basically having half the team build a wooden shack on top of your construction site, taking a good amount of effort, and materials to make. Now, once you are further into your construction, you'll have to spend extra time tearing down that wooden shack, and finishing the castle.
In short, you have to spend builders and resource to build the shack, and then even more to tear it down later. This is not a good method to construct things in. |
Artificer Ghost
Learning Coalition College
1025
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Posted - 2014.01.16 17:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Snip. What I said was covered.
~Art, CEO and DoE at Learning Coalition College, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Maken Tosch = 1000th Like!
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Kovinis Sparagas
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
120
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Posted - 2014.01.16 20:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
NPC item hauling with ISK fee would be a great idea! But after 10 minutes I changed my mind.
we are all siting in 4x3=12 stations. When we begin to trade, we will have a lot of stuff in there, and it will slowly begin to be major DUST hubs. But these 12 stations are spawn point for newbies, and it's not the greatest thing to make it major hubs, where thousands of people or coming and chatting and scamming. New player places should be calm, and let them to learn this new game.
I support BPO removal;
RDV to take your vehicles back;
and racial weapons on starter fits
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Chaos Scum
Warcaste
18
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Posted - 2014.01.16 20:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Avallo Kantor wrote:Let me attempt to explain why "temporary" measures are generally a bad idea for features that are this large.
Let's use something a bit more concrete as an example. Let's say you are building a giant castle (or skyscraper) and this will take countless hours and hours of work, and all of your manpower (for the castle building team).
Temporary measures are basically having half the team build a wooden shack on top of your construction site, taking a good amount of effort, and materials to make. Now, once you are further into your construction, you'll have to spend extra time tearing down that wooden shack, and finishing the castle.
In short, you have to spend builders and resource to build the shack, and then even more to tear it down later. This is not a good method to construct things in.
they do this all the time. CCP excels at band aid fixes. the amount of rework they do is astounding. this is a terrible excuse.
Don't hate me because I'm dutiful.
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Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance
897
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Posted - 2014.01.16 20:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
How about NPC buses and capsuleer-manned personnel carriers?
Each day there's several "buses" to important space hubs. They're cheap but you'd have to deal with waiting on the flight and then wait on it to get to the next station.
For players with more ISK in their pockets, they could board a player-made personnel carrier for whatever price that the capsuleer is offering. It's not controlled like the NPCs of course but that means you could get to and from faster.
I'd think it would be awesome although they would have to update map and actually show off accessible stations and hubs. Would be neat if they allowed for players pirates to have some effect.
That or they could just worry about traveling later and let pilots transfer weapons between hubs. As long as pirates can get involved and steal assets, I'm happy.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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