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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
5731
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Posted - 2014.01.15 21:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:Firstly, If you cannot understand why it is detrimental to game design and diversity, when someone spends approximately 2.7 million SP on a Proto suit for specific variant of a weapon, then you're part of the problem.
Secondly as it stands, the AK.0+ScR combo is the poster boy child for broken. What the Assault AK.0 bonus allows, is for the ScR to be proficient at CQC and range... remind you of another Gun(First one to guess correct get 5mill ISK).
Thirdly, the whole. "Gun takes skill because of the overheat mechanic" argument is so stupid. Its a long range weapon, and therefore it should require pacing.
Either way the weapon was due for a re-tuning. Just be happy they did not hit it with the nerf bat
I don't understand your bitching ReGnYuM.
The ScR will always be good even without the heat bonus in CQC, all the bonus mean was that players who made use of a specific weapon type were benefitted in its use.
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
5736
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Posted - 2014.01.15 21:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jenova Rhapsodos wrote:I'm actually with Regnum on this one. I use the Scrambler Rifle religiously on my logi suit, it's still crazy good but I have to manage the heat build-up carefully in CQC. I think perhaps with the AK.0 bonus it is a bit too potent, sort of just becomes a spam rifle.
Though I do feel bad for the game's remaining laser rifle user, wherever he may be. Don't give up the good fight man!
Its essentially a DMR, you are rewarded for having good accuracy with high DPS....unlike the RR and CR which reward High Alpha and DPS respectively without requiring that accuracy.
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
5738
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Posted - 2014.01.15 21:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:True Adamance wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:Firstly, If you cannot understand why it is detrimental to game design and diversity, when someone spends approximately 2.7 million SP on a Proto suit for specific variant of a weapon, then you're part of the problem.
Secondly as it stands, the AK.0+ScR combo is the poster boy child for broken. What the Assault AK.0 bonus allows, is for the ScR to be proficient at CQC and range... remind you of another Gun(First one to guess correct get 5mill ISK).
Thirdly, the whole. "Gun takes skill because of the overheat mechanic" argument is so stupid. Its a long range weapon, and therefore it should require pacing.
Either way the weapon was due for a re-tuning. Just be happy they did not hit it with the nerf bat I don't understand your bitching ReGnYuM. The ScR will always be good even without the heat bonus in CQC, all the bonus mean was that players who made use of a specific weapon type were benefitted in its use. The Heat bonus is what keeps the ScR in check for CQC. What you players made use was bonus that augmented a weapon from Mid to Long range to occasion CQC, into CQC, Mid range, and long range. You can stand here and argue all you want that the bonus is just 5 shots, but youu and me both know that 5 shots is the difference between overheating or killing. Just so people understand I have the AK.0 + ScR combo
But you can essentially use any rifle in this game beside the Gallente Assault rifle in CQC, Mid range, and with accuracy out to long range.
The Rail Rifle is essentially the same then, having insane projectile damage, moderate rate of fire, accuracy out to medium and long range, no overheat mechanic, and similar magazine size.
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
5747
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Posted - 2014.01.15 22:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jenova Rhapsodos wrote:Monty Mole Clone wrote:the whole losing the heat bonus isnt really the issue, its the new skill that imparts no bonus to the semi auto scram that i dont like. Surely you mean no bonus particularly relevant to an Amarr Assault suit? Due to the 3 low slots being a poor choice for an armor repair bonus. Otherwise you're saying, I don't mind losing the heat bonus as long as I get some other benefit to using the semi-auto scrambler rifle.
Rep rates don't reflect the Amarrian battle ethic anyway, we bring the resistance to the party. Leave that armour regen **** for the Gallente.
The point is why sacrifice a skill that ultimately reflect the Amarrian battle ethic well for one that does not.
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
5747
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 22:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jenova Rhapsodos wrote:True Adamance wrote:Jenova Rhapsodos wrote:Monty Mole Clone wrote:the whole losing the heat bonus isnt really the issue, its the new skill that imparts no bonus to the semi auto scram that i dont like. Surely you mean no bonus particularly relevant to an Amarr Assault suit? Due to the 3 low slots being a poor choice for an armor repair bonus. Otherwise you're saying, I don't mind losing the heat bonus as long as I get some other benefit to using the semi-auto scrambler rifle. Rep rates don't reflect the Amarrian battle ethic anyway, we bring the resistance to the party. Leave that armour regen **** for the Gallente. The point is why sacrifice a skill that ultimately reflect the Amarrian battle ethic well for one that does not. Yeah that's exactly it, but while the heat build up bonus is relevant it gives too much of an advantage to a weapon that is already very powerful. I definitely think the armor repair bonus should change (if it is even final) though I can't think of anything relevant and balanced off the top of my head.
Reducing the numbers rather than remove it entirely would be a better approach. The current bonuses however I feel are woefully poorly thought out, RoF Increase on a gun that fires as fast as you pull the trigger? Rep rates on an Amarrian suit?
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
5750
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Posted - 2014.01.15 22:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:True Adamance wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:Firstly, If you cannot understand why it is detrimental to game design and diversity, when someone spends approximately 2.7 million SP on a Proto suit for specific variant of a weapon, then you're part of the problem.
Secondly as it stands, the AK.0+ScR combo is the poster boy child for broken. What the Assault AK.0 bonus allows, is for the ScR to be proficient at CQC and range... remind you of another Gun(First one to guess correct get 5mill ISK).
Thirdly, the whole. "Gun takes skill because of the overheat mechanic" argument is so stupid. Its a long range weapon, and therefore it should require pacing.
Either way the weapon was due for a re-tuning. Just be happy they did not hit it with the nerf bat I don't understand your bitching ReGnYuM. The ScR will always be good even without the heat bonus in CQC, all the bonus mean was that players who made use of a specific weapon type were benefitted in its use. No offence True, but your statement their, highlighted in bold for convenience, is the exact problem. What if I wanna use something like a Mass Driver or Sniper Rifle? That's why I never liked the Amarr Assault bonus and why I don't agree with the currently proposed logistics racial bonuses. You are effectively penalised for not using the equipment.
Why would one nations technology be designed to be used to compliment foreign technology? hence you see the EVE side bonuses affecting, on ships, that nations racial proclivities.
Even then when it comes to manufacturing a product you never make a product without a market intended for it, the case of say Carthum or Viziam, amarrian corporations, why would they produce Amarrian designs to complement Minmatar or Gallentean guns?
If CCP wanted generic suits with generic bonuses why did they not model a corporate dropsuit system?
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
5753
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Posted - 2014.01.15 23:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:True Adamance wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:True Adamance wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:Firstly, If you cannot understand why it is detrimental to game design and diversity, when someone spends approximately 2.7 million SP on a Proto suit for specific variant of a weapon, then you're part of the problem.
Secondly as it stands, the AK.0+ScR combo is the poster boy child for broken. What the Assault AK.0 bonus allows, is for the ScR to be proficient at CQC and range... remind you of another Gun(First one to guess correct get 5mill ISK).
Thirdly, the whole. "Gun takes skill because of the overheat mechanic" argument is so stupid. Its a long range weapon, and therefore it should require pacing.
Either way the weapon was due for a re-tuning. Just be happy they did not hit it with the nerf bat I don't understand your bitching ReGnYuM. The ScR will always be good even without the heat bonus in CQC, all the bonus mean was that players who made use of a specific weapon type were benefitted in its use. No offence True, but your statement their, highlighted in bold for convenience, is the exact problem. What if I wanna use something like a Mass Driver or Sniper Rifle? That's why I never liked the Amarr Assault bonus and why I don't agree with the currently proposed logistics racial bonuses. You are effectively penalised for not using the equipment. Why would one nations technology be designed to be used to compliment foreign technology? hence you see the EVE side bonuses affecting, on ships, that nations racial proclivities. Even then when it comes to manufacturing a product you never make a product without a market intended for it, the case of say Carthum or Viziam, amarrian corporations, why would they produce Amarrian designs to complement Minmatar or Gallentean guns? If CCP wanted generic suits with generic bonuses why did they not model a corporate dropsuit system? First of all, this isn't EvE so certain things are going to be mirrored. While I see your point about target audience, don't forget you build a product for as many people as possible. Secondly even in lore races buy and use each others gear. The broker sold 2 amarrians both caldari and gallante weaponry. Finally the dropsuits aren't generic, but the skills need to be generic so as to avoid, 1) Overpowered Suits (Gallante Scanner Bonus) 2) Suits used for Spam ( Caldari, Amarrian Bonus) 3) Penalising for having a specific playstyle (Amarrian Assault Bonus) Finally in an FPS a lot of things are generic, it is going to happen. Why would we have 4 weapons that do the same thing? 4 ARs 2 SMGs 2 Light AV
These same ship builders make our gear. Your point is moot, there will always be features of the suits that compliment their own racial groups technology.
Again as you said all races used each other gear, that doesn't mean that a Mass driver designed to be compatible with an Gallente Medium frame suit. simply put suit bonuses should not simply be generic RoF buffs or Shield armour buffs.
I fail to understand how you classify using the main assault rifle of the amarr is considered spamming. I only gain 7 shots on you tops, if anything racial tech should be more penalising and favour racial styles, if CCP want to make more generic and racial dropsuits I would recommend the consider a corporate line of suits requiring non racial skills.
Frankly speaking the last thing we want in this game is more generic and boring content, that's not what dust promised, its not what people who play dust to the greater part of my understanding want. Why do you want to accommodate generic play styles and reward players for not sacrificing anything?
That just makes them more entitled. The lasting thing we need is a dumbing down of gameplay to garner the favour of a casual audience while sacrificing the things that more hardcore player want.
Speaking plainly again....we need more eve side aspects in Dust, we need to be a part of the universe, work off a combined set of rules and scenarios, etc.
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
5753
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Posted - 2014.01.15 23:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:The scrambler rifle is too good in close range because the hip fire accuracy and aim assist. That's what needed to be changed. The Amarr Assault bonus was fine. Firstly, it affected more than just the Scrambler Rifle, and there will likely be more weapons in the future for it to take advantage of. It is also no worse than the new Logistics racial bonuses.
And what stance do you take on the new bonuses suggested?
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
5758
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Posted - 2014.01.15 23:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:True Adamance wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:The scrambler rifle is too good in close range because the hip fire accuracy and aim assist. That's what needed to be changed. The Amarr Assault bonus was fine. Firstly, it affected more than just the Scrambler Rifle, and there will likely be more weapons in the future for it to take advantage of. It is also no worse than the new Logistics racial bonuses. And what stance do you take on the new bonuses suggested? They are fine. The racial bonuses are called "racial" bonuses for a reason. You do not have to take take advantage of it if you don't want, as the class bonus should still apply and make the suit better for you than basics. People need to remember that these suits are specializations. Specialization - noun 1. a making or becoming specialized Specialized - adjective 1. designed, trained, or fitted for one particular purpose or occupation So yes, again, the racial bonuses are fine. The class bonuses should makel you broadly specialized, while the racial bonuses should make you highly specialized. If you don't want to be highly specialized, then don't. No one is saying you have to use the racial bonus, just use the class bonus. If you don't even want to be broadly specialized, then stick with the basic generalist suits (which admittedly need some work).
So you would have the Armour Repair speed bonus proposed over the heat sink in the suit?
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
5758
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 23:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:True Adamance wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:True Adamance wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:The scrambler rifle is too good in close range because the hip fire accuracy and aim assist. That's what needed to be changed. The Amarr Assault bonus was fine. Firstly, it affected more than just the Scrambler Rifle, and there will likely be more weapons in the future for it to take advantage of. It is also no worse than the new Logistics racial bonuses. And what stance do you take on the new bonuses suggested? They are fine. The racial bonuses are called "racial" bonuses for a reason. You do not have to take take advantage of it if you don't want, as the class bonus should still apply and make the suit better for you than basics. People need to remember that these suits are specializations. Specialization - noun 1. a making or becoming specialized Specialized - adjective 1. designed, trained, or fitted for one particular purpose or occupation So yes, again, the racial bonuses are fine. The class bonuses should makel you broadly specialized, while the racial bonuses should make you highly specialized. If you don't want to be highly specialized, then don't. No one is saying you have to use the racial bonus, just use the class bonus. If you don't even want to be broadly specialized, then stick with the basic generalist suits (which admittedly need some work). So you would have the Armour Repair speed bonus proposed over the heat sink in the suit? I was referring to the new logi bonuses, which I thought you were asking about. No, the armor repair bonus is not a proper bonus for an Amarr Assault suit.
Indeed, were discussing the Ak.0 Assault.
EDIT- AND SPELL ARMOUR RIGHT YOU DAMN AMARRICAN!
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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