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The Attorney General
1747
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Posted - 2014.01.15 18:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Loki Patera wrote:Got a problem with tanks? Call in a missile or railgun tank. Problem solved. Got a problem with infantry? Get a rifle and some skills. Problem solved. Or, be a little FotM ***** and get a splashy Railgun or Missile Turret and 3000+ HP with instant reppers and outrun even the fastest Scout. (******* scrubs.)
Someone sucks at AV.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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The Attorney General
1748
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Posted - 2014.01.15 19:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Atiim wrote:The Attorney General wrote:
Someone sucks at AV.
Got anything other than ad-hominem and biased "trash talk" this time?  If not, then the kiddie table is that way, where you can sip your apple juice in peace with all the others. If your nice, I may even purchase a bib for you. And sadly, that doesn't make what Rynoceros is saying any less true; though you don't need a rifle to solve your infantry problems 
To whom do you think you are speaking?
Have I not openly called for buffs to AV?
Who amongst the AV crying circle can say the same? Where are the AV'ers who did call for nerfs when swarms or AV nades were OP? Can you find them? I doubt it very much. No, when AV was too strong, the AV group called everyone else scrubs. Yet today, you find more than just me repping the tankers saying that things need to change for AV to be more effective.
When the forge was OP I was one of those calling for it be nerfed only in a manner that would not limit its use as an AV weapon. Where can you display an AV person arguing for missile and blaster tanks?
No, I have a long and proven track record of being sensible, and making arguments that would promote balance and engaging gameplay.
I am so sick and tired of the medium frame crybabies. The new patch has been out for long enough now that there is no reason for people to not have proto forges and basic advanced heavy frames, which makes a fantastic AV fit.
I see plenty of idiots running around trying to swarm my shield tank. These are the types of people who complain about tanks being OP.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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The Attorney General
1749
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Posted - 2014.01.15 20:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Atiim wrote:
Those "Medium Frame Crybabies" do have a point though.
You should not have to skill into a certain dropsuit class just to deal with a niche role. What If I told Scouts that if they wanted to kill Medium Frames, they had to skill into heavies? That wouldn't seem too logical now would it?
Also, I believe that everyone else (like me) that your telling to become a heavy is also refusing to do so because they are trying to save up as much SP as possible for when the other racial heavies are released in 1.8. (150k SP can be the difference between Operation IV or V.)
And what if somebody's a Scout? What should they do if they want to kill tanks effectively?
As for your first statement, that was a direct reply to your "somebody sucks at AV" statement. I will however, admit that I probably should have payed more attention to the conversation as opposed to simply dismissing the statement as "trash talk." My apologizes.
Tell me, which suit specifically mentions engaging vehicles in its description? Is it the medium frame? Is it the light frame?
If someone has a desire to perform AV as a role, they spec heavy. If someone wants to have supplemental AV, they get the swarms and the PLC. That is the meta right now.
Further, even if the swarms and PLC get buffed, this fundamental balance should not change. AV should be centered on the heavy suit, which has drawbacks against infantry, because then you can increase the power of AV without completely ******* up the balance of everything else. Do everything medium frames are not balanced.
The heavy with a FG should be the peak of infantry based AV. It should have the HP and the damage output to drop vehicles while still being vulnerable to medium and light frames.
As to the argument about people saving SP: That is complete BS.
If you are on the forums complaining about tanks but refuse to drop 310k SP into an assault forge to deal with them, then I have no sympathy for you. If you refuse to put on a MLT heavy suit because it is not a medium frame, then why should anyone care about your opinion?
On my alt, I normally run around in a Amarr logi suit, but as soon as a tank shows up, I immediately grab my forge and the necessary grenade. I don't have to fundamentally alter how I play the game just so that I have an effective AV fit. But I definitely have that option. If you don't, that is on you.
At the very least people could use a MLT forge in a MLT fatsuit if they want to struglle at AV. Or they can invest some SP and watch stuff explode.
But you can't sit on your SP and cry like a *****. Unless you want to be derided for it.
Atiim wrote:
And what if somebody's a Scout? What should they do if they want to kill tanks effectively?
Not be a scout?
Throw down an uplink and have an AV player spawn?
Scan and track to feed intel to the heavies with FG's?
Why does every frame need to be effective at killing tanks?
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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The Attorney General
1756
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Posted - 2014.01.15 23:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Atiim wrote:
Man, it's a good thing you have no final say nor affiliation with CCP. Otherwise this game would quickly become HeavyForgeGun 514.
The Meta? The current meta is Medium Frames holding rifles? You want that? God help us all if anyone ever takes your statement on the meta seriously.
Willfully ignorant, ignored.
Atiim wrote:
Which brings me to my second point. I am not refusing to spec into heavy frames simply because it's not a Medium Frame. However, I won't discuss my reasons with you; for I'm sure that you'll simply use 3rd grade logic to lead back to your baseless argument about how "He won't do it because it's not a Medium Frame." Good attempt at trolling though. 5/10.
You won't discuss why you won't spec AV, then don't discuss why you think tanks are OP.
Atiim wrote:
310k? I don't even have 100k yet. But since we are on the whole SP subject.
I have spent nearly 10m SP maxing out skills involving Swarm Launchers. Why would I (or any logical person), go spend millions more SP on something simply because some nut on the forums said that the other gun should be the MASTER RACE of that role?
So you spent 10 mill SP into swarms, an OP weapon, and complain when they get nerfed. Go ask the Cal logis how that worked out for them. When tanks get nerfed, the only people who will still be playing them are people who like tanking.
If you like spamming fire and forget missiles, then you spent your SP wisely. If you invested heavily becuase htey were OP, then you are paying the price for being a scrub.
But if you refuse to spend a weeks worth of SP for an effective vehicle counter, than you are in no position to complain about tanks messing you up.
Atiim wrote:
Which brings me to yet another point. Why would anyone in their right mind use a weapon when one weapon is theoretically better in literally every way possible? You can have a gun that kills things in 2-4 shots and requires two people at best, coupled by a suit that gives you a good defense against enemy attacks, and twice the range OR you can have a gun that kills things in 5-8 shots, requires coordination from an entire squad, and leaves you practically defenseless from every weapon in the game.
I don't know why people would still be using swarms, especially against shield tanks. But it happens all the time. People are just stupid I guess.
Continued below.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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The Attorney General
1756
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Posted - 2014.01.15 23:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Why does every frame have to be effective at killing tanks you ask? Because tanks are... Wait for it.... Wait for it...  A NICHE! That's like asking why every frame type needs to be good against Laser Rifles. A niche is not supposed to have only 1 effective counter.
Vehicles are a role, just like a heavy, a logi, or a scout.
Even if they were not, there are more than one counter.
FG, RE's and Prox, or a combo of medium frames.
Not to mention the vehicle counters.
Atiim wrote:
And last time I checked, tanks are a niche role, not a "be all, end all things but one" class. If you can quote and link a post from a CCP developer saying otherwise, then I'll gladly accept your FORGE MASTER RACE bull$#!t.
PS:
If you can give me one good reason as to why anyone should use a Forge Gun over Swarms and Plasma Cannons (assuming they haven't invested SP into the latter) under your logic, then I will empty what little ISK I have left into refunding the ISK of every vehicle that I have ever destroyed. (And looking at the numbers from the AV registry, that's a lot of ISK).
7/10 You managed to put me in a bad mood. Now I'm gonna go play some ROMs on my laptop to go blow of some steam.
[/HAND]
Last time I checked, armor is a critical component on battlefields, not just a sideshow.
As for your request for a reason to spec FG, here is the only one you should need:
It works.
If you claim to be an AV'er, then that is reason enough.
Otherwise, stop pretending that you have any considerations for real AV work, and just admit you want your OP swarms back so you can go back to being a scrub camped up on a tower spamming missiles.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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The Attorney General
1758
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Posted - 2014.01.15 23:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Atiim wrote:
I invested wasted over 10mil. That gives me the right to watch things explode. Care to troll again?
When you start talking about your rights in video games, it is time to step away and reevaluate your life.
You have no rights, certainly not in a video game.
Grow up.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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