Give me a marauder tank with a siege module and you won't see me flee from a battle (mainly because I couldn't move)

Someone sucks at AV.

To whom do you think you are speaking?

Have I not openly called for buffs to AV?

Who amongst the AV crying circle can say the same? Where are the AV'ers who did call for nerfs when swarms or AV nades were OP? Can you find them? I doubt it very much. No, when AV was too strong, the AV group called everyone else scrubs. Yet today, you find more than just me repping the tankers saying that things need to change for AV to be more effective.

When the forge was OP I was one of those calling for it be nerfed only in a manner that would not limit its use as an AV weapon. Where can you display an AV person arguing for missile and blaster tanks?

No, I have a long and proven track record of being sensible, and making arguments that would promote balance and engaging gameplay.

I am so sick and tired of the medium frame crybabies. The new patch has been out for long enough now that there is no reason for people to not have proto forges and basic advanced heavy frames, which makes a fantastic AV fit.

I see plenty of idiots running around trying to swarm my shield tank. These are the types of people who complain about tanks being OP.

Tell me, which suit specifically mentions engaging vehicles in its description? Is it the medium frame? Is it the light frame?

If someone has a desire to perform AV as a role, they spec heavy. If someone wants to have supplemental AV, they get the swarms and the PLC. That is the meta right now.

Further, even if the swarms and PLC get buffed, this fundamental balance should not change. AV should be centered on the heavy suit, which has drawbacks against infantry, because then you can increase the power of AV without completely ******* up the balance of everything else. Do everything medium frames are not balanced.

The heavy with a FG should be the peak of infantry based AV. It should have the HP and the damage output to drop vehicles while still being vulnerable to medium and light frames.

As to the argument about people saving SP: That is complete BS.

If you are on the forums complaining about tanks but refuse to drop 310k SP into an assault forge to deal with them, then I have no sympathy for you. If you refuse to put on a MLT heavy suit because it is not a medium frame, then why should anyone care about your opinion?

On my alt, I normally run around in a Amarr logi suit, but as soon as a tank shows up, I immediately grab my forge and the necessary grenade. I don't have to fundamentally alter how I play the game just so that I have an effective AV fit. But I definitely have that option. If you don't, that is on you.

At the very least people could use a MLT forge in a MLT fatsuit if they want to struglle at AV. Or they can invest some SP and watch stuff explode.

But you can't sit on your SP and cry like a *****. Unless you want to be derided for it.




Not be a scout?

Throw down an uplink and have an AV player spawn?

Scan and track to feed intel to the heavies with FG's?

Why does every frame need to be effective at killing tanks?

THIS, omfg so much of this!!! The reasons you enumerated are why I ******* hate the community now...
Everyone needs to grow a ******* pair and HTFU instead of complaining like little kids over subjects that have already been discussed to death.

Willfully ignorant, ignored.

And your insult as to why I won't spec into heavies wasn't?



You won't discuss why you won't spec AV, then don't discuss why you think tanks are OP.

Heavy Frames aren't AV. And I am already deeply 'speced' into AV, so I will discuss why I think tanks are OP.



So you spent 10 mill SP into swarms, an OP weapon, and complain when they get nerfed. Go ask the Cal logis how that worked out for them. When tanks get nerfed, the only people who will still be playing them are people who like tanking.

If you like spamming fire and forget missiles, then you spent your SP wisely. If you invested heavily because they were OP, then you are paying the price for being a scrub.

But if you refuse to spend a weeks worth of SP for an effective vehicle counter, than you are in no position to complain about tanks messing you up.

Should I willfully ignore this? According to what you stated, you have no rights, especially in a video game. So by your sayings alone, you have no right to say that Swarm Launchers were OP. (But since playing Ocarina of Time put me in such a good mood, I'll respond to this blatant double standard anyway).

I love how tankers like to use the fire and forget tern, Unfortunately, the insult doesn't mean much when turrets themselves don't require any skill beyond joystick rotation and R1. Heck, that actually applies to tanks themselves as well. Unless you find that there is an actual skill in activating a hardener and holding down R1.

I invested into Swarm Launchers because there is no Minmatar or Caldari heavy, and because Plasma Cannons are not viable. But hey keep making more baseless assumptions that are in the form of insults. It won't make your point any more or less truthful.

The answer to something being underpowered is not to skill into something else, nor is it to stop using your weapon. If you truly believe this, then you would go into Scout Registry right now and tell every scout there to HTFU and skill into a Medium Frame. You and I both know that you wouldn't do this, so I'll just leave this other double standard at ease for now.



I don't know why people would still be using swarms, especially against shield tanks. But it happens all the time. People are just stupid I guess.

Continued below.

I don't know, maybe it's because they have 10mil+ SP invested and don't want to waste nearly 2 months worth of SP skilling into something else? But your right, it's abusrd to use the thing that you invested months worth of time and SP into

Though not many are actually using Swarms anymore. They've moved on to Sicas/Gunnlogies with Particle Accelerators and State Particle Cannons. I guess that's mission accomplished for the pilot community eh?

Reading on now.

Vehicles are a role, just like a heavy, a logi, or a scout.
Even if they were not, there are more than one counter.
FG, RE's and Prox, or a combo of medium frames.
Not to mention the vehicle counters.

Roles don't have only one effective counter, they have multiple counters. And vehicles are also a Niche. Why?

Because there is a hard-cap on the amount that can be in the field, they can't access indoor areas that infantry can, and most importantly, you need an infantry dropsuit to use them. moving on now.

Technically, Plasma Cannons are an counter to a Dropship, but is it effective? Lolno.

Removing multiple people from the rest of the battle to deal with one person is not effective .Remote Explosives are a joke, and anyone who is killed by them either has their TV muted or is a complete scrub. Then again, if tankers are advocating them as viable, that would explain a lot wouldn't it?

If something is theoretically better than every other weapon designed for it's purpose in every way possible, then every other weapon designed for the same purpose is ineffective.

Maybe I wasn't clear the last few times, So I'll state it again.

No item should ever be theoretically better than the other item intended for it's same purpose in every way that matters. This makes the other weapons ineffective, and guarantees that nobody will use anything other than said weapon; which negates the purpose of it's existence in the first place.

Despite your belief, AV isn't, nor should be FORGE MASTER RACE. It should be SL=/=FG=/=PLC




Last time I checked, armor is a critical component on battlefields, not just a sideshow.

As for your request for a reason to spec FG, here is the only one you should need:

It works.

If you claim to be an AV'er, then that is reason enough.

Otherwise, stop pretending that you have any considerations for real AV work, and just admit you want your OP swarms
back so you can go back to being a scrub camped up on a tower spamming missiles.

I'm not saying vehicles are a sideshow. I'm saying they aren't the "Be all, End all but one" class that your FORGE MASTER RACE mentality would like to believe.

Because "It Works?" lmao

If you believe that true AVers actually follow that ideal, then you clearly have no idea of what a true AVer is whatsoever. This is why I always get a good laugh everytime a dedicated tanker calls themselves AV. You may sit down now.

Dude, I want to send you a bro-hug and some ISK right now. Nothing any tanker has ever told me (or anyone) has been so hilarious before. I thought that my last laugh would have been when Spkr4TheDead sent me mail calling himself dedicated AV.

Never once spammed missiles from a tower unless I was fighting an Assault Dropship that was also hovering over a tower (which wouldn't really be spamming tbh).

No, I don't want to 3 shot tanks again (unless it's MLT/STD fitted). No I do not want 400m back. Heck, the "It works" mentality that your biased, tunnelvisioned. head that believes that AV actually follows that mentality would imply that we want to 3 shot properly fitted vehicles again (which wasn't even capable in the first place). It would also imply that we want the ability to destroy MCCs like Forge Guns used to do.

And until you can present any irrefutable proof of the dedicated AV community ever following or saying the "it works" statement or anything in that last paragraph, your "argument" (or lack thereof) is ad-hominem at best.

You may sit down now. And please refrain from acting as if you have even the slightest thing about true AVers, for you clearly have none.

Get back in your tank.

When you start talking about your rights in video games, it is time to step away and reevaluate your life.

You have no rights, certainly not in a video game.

Grow up.

There is a problem, and it's infantry wanting vehicles to be useless and/or removed from the game.

You know, not everybody wants to be an infantryman, running around like a chicken without a head, looking for the next kill, not even counting on the next guy to hack the objective, because it seems like most people that complain about individual encounters with tanks only play ambush, and nothing else. We don't care about the status quo infantry has for this game, which is the hope that it will become 100% infantry.
I haven't played Ambush in the past 6 months. Your argument (or lack thereof) is invalid.

Suck it up and deal with it, or find another game to play. We can't be reasonable with you.

The top turrets of all variants used to cost almost a million ISK each. Made a really good tank cost 1.2mil ISK at the very least. How would you like to lose out on that much ISK each death?