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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2700
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Posted - 2014.01.15 06:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Orignal Poster you have no clue
I have spent SP building my character around a single design philosophy that is epitomized by the gallente scout. However, they are planning to radically change the gallente scout (interchangeable for any suit really) and it will absolutely destroy the harmonization of my specialization if I do not get a full respec. I will be left with skills that prove irrelevant to the suit and even if just my dropsuit sp was unallocated I would still be boned because range amplification would not apply in the same manner nor would profile dampening and precision or speed and stamina.
It would be foolish not to give respecs with such a proposed content dump. They will give one.
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2703
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Posted - 2014.01.15 23:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Beck Weathers wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Orignal Poster you have no clue
I have spent SP building my character around a single design philosophy that is epitomized by the gallente scout. However, they are planning to radically change the gallente scout (interchangeable for any suit really) and it will absolutely destroy the harmonization of my specialization if I do not get a full respec. I will be left with skills that prove irrelevant to the suit and even if just my dropsuit sp was unallocated I would still be boned because range amplification would not apply in the same manner nor would profile dampening and precision or speed and stamina.
It would be foolish not to give respecs with such a proposed content dump. They will give one. The only thing i dont have a clue about is how this is any diferant fome any change since uprising. Is your only argument that there is more change in one patch than before? If they put the flaylock nerf, heavy hp buffs the caldari logi nerf and added the new cammando suit all in one patch would that have warented a respec? But it was ok to not give respecs because it was spread out?
None of those changes actually involved the skill bonuses
I am still correct and apparently you still don't have a clue
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2703
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Posted - 2014.01.16 00:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Beck Weathers wrote:
You sir have absolutly no idea what you are talking aout. The caldari logi nerf DID change their skills
old - Caldari Logistics: 5% bonus to shield extenders per level
current - Caldari Logistics: 5% bonus to shield regulators per level
not to mention a huge CPU nerf. So please quit embarising yourself by talking.
I will consent that but the heavy buff and flaylock nerf did not include skill bonus changes so you are at odds
Secondly, please tell me how it would be OK for CCP to do this:
Remove Scout Sidearm
Not refund Sidearm skills
or
Gallogi skill bonus now solely Active Scanner related
No refund of Equipment (especially if a gallogi did NOT spec into Active Scanner)
or
Amarr Assault no longer has heat bonus
No refund for Scrambler Rifle or Laser Rifle
How are any of those scenarios even remotely fair to a user who planned their SP around their suit yet changes to the suit would nullify the purpose/intent of SP investments? How the hell was anyone supposed to plan on the scout becoming a logistics suit or the Amarr Assault now pertaining only to Armor repair modules when someone invested around Armor Modules for laser weaponry because the Skill of today was the Skill of today. No one invests SP based on past bonuses so why should anyone have to invest SP gambling on future bonuses?
Lastly I can't take you very serious when you spell embarrassing wrong, it's ironic because people who can't spell yet continue to write....
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2704
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Posted - 2014.01.16 00:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Beck Weathers wrote:
Well I will conceed that IF they take away the scout sidearm they should get some sort of side arm respec. Tho you will be happy to know the CPM is heavy trying to convince them to take a granade slot or no slot at all.
I know I cant spell well. came to terms with it years ago back in college, i just stoped giving a hoot.
I am aware of the debate
Don't simply ignore the other scenarios either, everything is changing
If I ran a Gallente Assault I would've specced into Hybrid weapon for the skill bonus and regenerative modules
But the Gallente Assault is losing it's Hybrid weapon Bonus
(so Hybrid weapon respec)
And it's bonus is now pertaining to Armor Plate Modules so I should get a module respec as well so I can incorporate the applicable modules n'est-ce pas?
And it goes on and on. This is not about flavor of the month, this is a one time deal because they are changing already existing skills, not just adding new ones. If the future scout is no longer appealing to me due to range nerf, I should be granted the right to be specced out of scout and all the modules I specced into specifically for the scout because CCP made a drastic change that would effect my overall suit desires.
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2704
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Posted - 2014.01.16 00:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
J-Lewis wrote:Respecs undo the most common incentive to log on: character progress.
From a designers standpoint; respecs are an absolute nightmare. Every time you issue a respec, you are sacrificing how much longer players are going to stick around to unlock new content.
A lot of people could do with learning that the best things in life are those you earn through invested effort. It would make the lives of the devs so much easier if they didn't have to constantly worry about respecs whenever they want to change something, I suspect.
But who would want to invest in something they did not want to invest in?
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2704
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Posted - 2014.01.16 01:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Beck Weathers wrote:
You see, the MAIN reason Im against respecs is because I don't belive it will be a "one time deal" they will likely change bonuses many times in the future, release new suits many times in the future, and generaly tweak the game as they see fit. When the nw heavy weapons come out, and CCP gave us a respec now, how willthey deny all heavys getting a compleete weapon respec? They will say that CCP caved for this patch and they will have no ground to stand on against them. Or what if they add 3 round to the plasma cannon per mag and take away its charge time, will fundimentaly change how its used, respec!
If CCP promises to never give a respec again no matter how much we beg (unless they remove skills) , i might be convinced, but I just dont see it starting once it starts.
It already started with Uprising and once it's started well it's started from their you can have a middle and an end.
Also why shouldn't CCP be forced to live with their decisions? If the players get locked into a suit why shouldn't CCP be locked from changing that suit? In that case and ONLY THAT CASE could CCP get away with no respecs.
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2704
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Posted - 2014.01.16 01:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
J-Lewis wrote:That's the point: no one. If you issue respecs, that's exactly what happens: people invest them in what they fancy at the moment. Things people fancy at the moment and character progress incentives go hand in hand. A respec simply means players can skip that much of the character progress. Then the next respec comes around: the player has moved on and wants to try the most appealing toy post change. Every time there is a respec, players can scratch one more goal's worth of content off the total list of content. And for a content starved game like DUST... You see where I'm going...  A bit of suffering makes the tiniest accomplishment seem worthwhile, and it's time this community swapped its diapers for big boy pants. Reimbursing the SP for a removed skill is reasonable. Respecs for simple balance changes is not.
So not only are you saying that people should be forced to locked into a suit/role that THEY did not spec into at the time but you are also saying that radically overhauling a suit is balancing rather than a new direction?
Also why do you base your argument off of future respecs? We are talking about when the changes hit, not every month. You can't have FOTM without monthly respecs.
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2705
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Posted - 2014.01.16 03:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
J-Lewis wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:[quote=J-Lewis] That's the point: no one. If you issue respecs, that's exactly what happens: people invest them in what they fancy at the moment. Things people fancy at the moment and character progress incentives go hand in hand. A respec simply means players can skip that much of the character progress. Then the next respec comes around: the player has moved on and wants to try the most appealing toy post change. Every time there is a respec, players can scratch one more goal's worth of content off the total list of content. And for a content starved game like DUST... You see where I'm going... A bit of suffering makes the tiniest accomplishment seem worthwhile, and it's time this community swapped its diapers for big boy pants. Reimbursing the SP for a removed skill is reasonable. Respecs for simple balance changes is not. Please don't put words in my mouth. I wrote that character progress was the most widespread incentive to logging in. I argued that respecs undo the incentive to log in that character progress creates in exchange for a one time "log in binge". I'm stating that an overhaul serves the higher purpose of balance, and that balance is an iterative process.I'm reasoning that the removal of a skillbook warrants returning the SP invested in that skillbook. I'm rebuting the opinion that a simple act of balancing merits a respec. I'm ending our conversation on this topic here. Have a nice day.
You have to work for the last word
Underlined portions are what you said and what I reiterated. You are basing your argument off of the possibility of numerous-different respecs in the future. Secondly you are saying that people should have to stick by the side of a suit even if it is taken to a different role just for the sake of balance.
Removing a sidearm and adding an equipment slot to one suit is not balance, that's a tradeoff, that's a new direction. They are changing the fundamentals of a suit, and if no respec is given, people signing on for a combat suit will end up with a logistics suit. You said that "overhaul serves a higher purpose of balance" and that "Respecs for simple balance changes is not" a reason for SP unallocation.
I put no words in your mouth, you just need to stand by your words, I made the mistake of not standing by my words once and it haunts me. You are saying that NO RESPECS unless a skill is removed. What if the profile dampening skill no longer included a bonus (+2% reduction profile p/l) or even replaced with a skill (let's say +10% to your profile so you can be scanned easier). The skill was not removed but the bonus was. What I want to know from you is that if that does not constitute a skill removal than what does? Having the title changed?
The fact of the matter is that things are going to be dramatically changing, so much that suits will be going in completely different directions. The Scout is becoming a logistics type suit the assaults are becoming tank suits and some suit bonuses will only apply to certain modules. It's about how the suits are completely changing AND the skills. Nothing is going to be the same so why should you be specced into the same things?
What if CCP took your suit and swapped the low and high slot counts and didn't spec you out of the suit. How is that fair? What destroys character progression is CCP destroying the essence of your already existing character and changing its principles.
Again, it's not FOTM if there is no monthly respec.
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2707
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Posted - 2014.01.16 03:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Beck Weathers wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:
Again, it's not FOTM if there is no monthly respec.
Because you know there is no way to skill into a new suit nor guns without respecs.
That's not entirely true
I am saying there is no character completely designed for FOTM without monthly respecs. That was my bad I should have been a little more specific.
I can obviously spec into FOTM if I choose but it would require SP accumulation on my end. If there was a monthly respec I could invest my existing SP however I please and choose a FOTM. But since there will be no such thing as monthly respec, you don't have to worry about FOTM.
If CCP does an Infantry respec, people will spec into what they please and in any scenario with/without respec there will be uneven distribution but that is natural, just like there are more ants in the world than elephants. Things will be no different then when they introduced new weapons. People will spam new weapons for a while and it will be chaotic but then things will even out. And there was no respec for the new weapons either and the spam was like maximum. There's nothing preventing people from speccing into a new direction but a single respec is not going to direct the whole populace to one suit, one weapon, one fitting. It just won't happen even to a point of majority.
People have been playing since 2011 and waiting for X suit but never got it and had to work with substitutes. Now that X suit is coming out, I think it's fair that they be unshackled and go to what they've been waiting/planning for.
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