DUST Search - So, are we gonna see some changes to matchmaking?

GET ATMESON wrote:

Dkafamos wrote:

I mean, I've played for a few hours only and I already see all the crap that Dust is (and why people aren't staying for long in it). I mean, really, am I supposed to face advanced and prototype players, with millions of isks under their belts, with teams actually facing PCs and expect us to stay? Not counting being blown to bits by every single weapon in hand.

Jeez, is it so hard to actually stop the stomping and actually concentrating on the fun? I will never defeat another player unless my team is stomping them mostly because I, in milita fit, the free one, where I won't spend money, will get raped by literally everything. I mean, are new players expected to be cannon fodder and like it? WTF? I though CCP had a god damn design team, and playing a few hours already brings up this mess.

Fix the god damn matchmaking, either you fight people with your gear level, or equal SP. You want to play against another team? Wait in line for a match with the same ammount of players on another team.

This stomping isn't fun, and it sucked all the magic out of Dust 514 for me. I don't want stomping, I want a decent fight.

Welcome to New Eden? We all had it happen to us. Not one player hasnt been stomped by PRO suits. The thing about dust. Is it makes or brakes the casual shooter. Either you go through out the pub stompes and start doing it your self or you quit and no one cares. If you think players with LOADS of SP and ISK will wait in line to fight? It will be you stuck in line waiting for 1mill under SP players. If your getting stomped all the time by ADV thats truly sad. PRO must be a nightmare.

I do think its a little messed up that causal players(normally COD) want to jump on here and think they will be GOD. Do the grind we all did. Get stomped like we all did. Earn your way up like we all did. Its really not that hard to NOT RUN AND GUN . Running right into a HMG or a PRO suit isnt the smartest when using free fits. Even if they use the same suit as you, the free starter fits. They will still out DPS, out EHP, and have tactics you wont have. Time spent is time earned in Dust514.

Steps to fix this
1 Dont QQ
2 Join a new corp
3. Make friends with corp members
3 GRIND
4 Did I say grind?
5 Yea I did say grind.
6 save up your SP until your at 3mill or so SP
7 Pick a role you want to be. Keep in mind this will be FOREVER.
8. Spend SP and enjoy the grind to 10mill SP.
9. Learn Top corp names so you know when to leave
10, Or skip all of this and read the "new players guide" it will help you.

They need modes like PRO and down, ADV and down, and Militia only. That way YOU get to pick if you get pub stomped. Keep in mind that PRO would have highest play out. ADV would have ok pay out, and Militia would have lowest payout. To bad the player base inst high enough for this. CCP could test it out with ambush maybe then add it into other game modes for a week and count how many players played those modes of ambush. To see if it would be worth it.

BUT to cry about ADV suits killing you thats very sad. I would never have said that on the forums. Less QQ more Pew Pew. Maybe you should ask for PvE Big smile

Hopefully a causal player will know what PvE is. SHH dont tell and dont cheat using the internet.

Edit: added link to new players guide
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136343&find=unread


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Dkafamos Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.01.15 01:23:00 - [1] - Quote I mean, I've played for a few hours only and I already see all the crap that Dust is (and why people aren't staying for long in it). I mean, really, am I supposed to face advanced and prototype players, with millions of isks under their belts, with teams actually facing PCs and expect us to stay? Not counting being blown to bits by every single weapon in hand. Jeez, is it so hard to actually stop the stomping and actually concentrating on the fun? I will never defeat another player unless my team is stomping them mostly because I, in milita fit, the free one, where I won't spend money, will get raped by literally everything. I mean, are new players expected to be cannon fodder and like it? WTF? I though CCP had a god damn design team, and playing a few hours already brings up this mess. Fix the god damn matchmaking, either you fight people with your gear level, or equal SP. You want to play against another team? Wait in line for a match with the same ammount of players on another team. This stomping isn't fun, and it sucked all the magic out of Dust 514 for me. I don't want stomping, I want a decent fight.
Dkafamos Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.01.15 01:33:00 - [2] - Quote LEHON Xeon wrote: Dkafamos wrote: I mean, I've played for a few hours only and I already see all the crap that Dust is (and why people aren't staying for long in it). I mean, really, am I supposed to face advanced and prototype players, with millions of isks under their belts, with teams actually facing PCs and expect us to stay? Not counting being blown to bits by every single weapon in hand. Jeez, is it so hard to actually stop the stomping and actually concentrating on the fun? I will never defeat another player unless my team is stomping them mostly because I, in milita fit, the free one, where I won't spend money, will get raped by literally everything. I mean, are new players expected to be cannon fodder and like it? WTF? I though CCP had a god damn design team, and playing a few hours already brings up this mess. Fix the god damn matchmaking, either you fight people with your gear level, or equal SP. You want to play against another team? Wait in line for a match with the same ammount of players on another team. This stomping isn't fun, and it sucked all the magic out of Dust 514 for me. I don't want stomping, I want a decent fight. Yeah, I hear ya. At least when I first came around Academy lasted for at least 12,000 WP. You new guys sadly don't have much of a prayer these days unless you let your account just sit for several months with boosters to get enough for at least advanced gear. I don't blame you for thinking of leaving. I probably would if I was in the same situation. The worst part is to think that this is actually the simplest of the solutions and it seems to evade CCP entirely. Geez, i've been one-shot by practially everything today. If I try to face something, better my aim be completely true or I'm ****. And the worst part is that I can't even rush advanced or something to even counter this, unless I pay. CCP, news flash, you'll get money if you keep new players playing. Who the though it would be good to actually stomp newbies as a good idea? I though EVE Online would have already taught them the ropes. And worst, the longer they ignore this problem, the smaller the community gets. I know their logic behind this: "But then we won't have enough players for everyone to play with, and matches will take longer to begin." Well, bu ***** hu. I'd rather wait 3 minutes and get a cool match then having one every three seconds available and get stomped in 90% of the time. Fix this. Take your heads out of the sand and do what people actually want. Not a hard solution.
Dkafamos Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:13:00 - [3] - Quote How does WP work? The higher you get, the higher your opponents as well? How the hell did they miss this so easily?
Dkafamos Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:37:00 - [4] - Quote Thang Bausch wrote: From what I can tell, they either disabled match making altogether or at the very least toned it down to uselessness. When they first introduced it, most matches felt relatively well matched, even when there was a very dominant winner. Admittedly, you had to wait 1-5 minutes to get into a match and there were serious bugs (Scotty the AI errors, matches with 8 vs 1), but the matches were mostly fun. Around the same time that scotty errors almost completely disappeared, match search times dropped to 1-30 seconds and they removed the warbarge (which allowed you to look at the player list before the match and leave if the player list was very obviously poorly balanced), matches became as unbalanced as they were before the match making was released. I see things now that a very basic algorithm could fix. I've been in matches were one team is filled with people from different corps and most of the corps no name ones or the auto-generated ones and the other team is made up mostly of 2-4 corp squads from high end corps. I mean, how hard is it to balance the corp squads out between the two teams? I have only sparse coding experience and I could write an algorithm to handle that. It has made me wonder if they intentionally turned match making off. I most likely believe so, specially since they need to retain their "paying costumers", which need cannon fodder as well. No wonder the retention is so low.
Dkafamos Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 5	Posted - 2014.01.15 05:40:00 - [5] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Matchmaking is a genuine pain point for us right now and is something we'd love to get sorted. I don't have any specific updates other than to let you guys know that we're aware of the issues and want to rectify them. Well it would really help if you left the newbies in the Academy for around 100k warpoints (or more) and promote anyone with a 3.0 kdr (after a certain amount of matches played) or above to prevent Academy losers from farming. Considering the time it takes to grind the SP to reach a million points, I'd say 200.000. That is more then enough time to hook people up, for them to learn the ropes (since in newbiegrounds skill will dictate a lot of your actions, not gear necessarily), and after that you'll try to match him with people on standard and advanced gear, since he'll have the money and the SP to do so. Do NOT allow players outside of the 200,000 WP to battle against the players well after that, and have "tiers" of players based on WP: 0-200.000 - Novices (Militia, Standard mostly) 200,001 - 500.000 - learned the ropes but are no masters (Standard with advanced) 500,001- 1,000,000 - You are mastering one or several paths (Mostly advanced with some prototype) 1,000,001 -FFA I'm kinda sleeping here, maybe I'll come more clearer, but as a Planetside 2 veteran, I though abysmal the way new players are treated in Dust. While in planetside you are only handed a basic gear, that basic gear is strong to kill veteran players (which will have the skills to actually compensate for a not stellar equipment in comparison to you). In EVE, WITH the skill there is also equipment. MAny times I had the jump on the players and I actually pumped them full of lead, only to miss a few shots and end up one shotted in the floor. SEVERAL TIMES! This isn't fun at all. I can't even test gear for real because I have to spare SK and ISKs for fittings (My basic fitting is costing 10k, and while better then the free militia, it still nothing compared to proto wearers mostly because I don't have the SK to fight. I don't even know if Its possible to tackle full proto heavies in medium suits). The lack of tutorials is also something that hits new players very hard, but if the Academy idea went forward, it would alliviate a lot of problems and start to retain more and more people. As the game isn't fully fleshed out, it is simply being too punitive, bordering unfair to new players, and while we like challenges, we don't like a place where we are just an WP pi+¦ata. I might stya because I like EVE universe, but most won't.
Dkafamos Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 14	Posted - 2014.01.15 20:49:00 - [6] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Been yelling at CCP for this forever. While they're at it, the Academy needs dire fixing too. Raise the WP cap to at least 20,000 WP, preferably 100,000 >_> No. What they need to do is if you successfully hack an objective, you graduate the academy. You know how many blueberries I've seen recently that STAND AROUND AN OBJECTIVE SHOOTING IN THE AIR NEAR OBJECTIVE A? This is due to a lack of basic tutorial. Even pop ups would do much better then now. Since Im previously an EVE Player, I know my way around. Most people don't, and having one since newbie match does tend to make things stupid for new players.
Dkafamos Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 16	Posted - 2014.01.16 00:12:00 - [7] - Quote The main problem isn't the gear itself, but how the system decides to pit players with no skills whatsoever against players with a lot of Skill points. There is no need to make militia only matches. What needs to be done is this academy (which should also bring a hefty tutorial, explaining the systems in the game), and limit players win WPs. Higher SK should be fighting their likes, not curb stomping low SK players. We don't need to reimagine the wheel, just add these two things, and everything will go along more smoothly, with population increase. Warn the newbies that EVE is much more complex then just shooting, let them get shot a few times if they don't pay attention to fittings and stuff, and you'll see a better game.
Dkafamos Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 20	Posted - 2014.01.16 06:49:00 - [8] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: To OP: Thanks for attempting to bring this to light as many others have. There are many players in the game who happily help newbies as we try to make New Eden a better place on our own. Feel free to drop me a line in game and hopefully I will be around to at least bring you along with a good squad who will try to help you out as well as offer different perspectives on where you should put your SP based on what you enjoy about the game. I already figured some out. I'm ditching KDR (as it is a meaningless stat), and I'm switching back to militia gear when I see it's a stomp. Better die and lose nothing, then simply use all my earning as restocking. CCP has done such a poor job at this, that it doesn't seem to be done at all. CCP, you can try thinks with the matchmaking and then, if they fail completely, turn the previous option back. As people said, a test server would do wonders in this case.
Dkafamos Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 23	Posted - 2014.01.17 00:31:00 - [9] - Quote Since I'm new here, I do want to understand something. Do weapons have range? Min-Max damage? I know I hit people sometimes, and they seem to register 0 damage, what gives? ON TOPIC: What is getting frustrating. Having less then a million doesn't give me many options in how to tackle a problem. Unless I unload a full clip at someone, there is a high probability I'll die quickly. I'm finding strange the professional shooters here, 1 shot, 1 kill. As I said, the worst thing to new players in shooters (this isn't a true MMO, yet at least) is to be horribily outgunned. Lets use Planetside 2 as an example: Lvl 100 is 10~20% stronger due to certificates then a lvl 1, so skill-wise, lvl 100 is stronger, but not immortal. lvl 1 player, if skilled, can easily kill lvl 100, mostly because he isn't massively stronger then lvl 1. Of course in Dust 514 this is different (and I don't have anything against it), but as in planetside 2, a lvl 100 is 10-20% stronger, in Dust, Proto is 300% stronger then a militia player. That being said, there is no stimulli for a new player to stick around, mostly because he knows he'll lose too much time to even get in the same level as the proto players, let alone be better. There is no stimulli for new players to stay, they are virtually (pun) WP pi+¦atas, with no real chance of actually tackling and killing advanced/prototype players. I can't understand why is CCP struggling with this. The longer they wait for the "perfect" solution, the worst it'll get once it is implemented. It is already a tough break because new players, virgins of the CCP MMO esque, will not stay and try to work to get their gear. They won't care. Not with the current match making. I don't mind facing High lvl SK players. I mind fighting them in hugely Overpowered suits (compared to the militia). Just hoping this will be fixed soon (and I mean VERY soon, I'm already aprehensive of showing this game to more people thanks to this).
Dkafamos Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 23	Posted - 2014.01.17 00:53:00 - [10] - Quote demonkiller 12 wrote: Dkafamos wrote: I mean, I've played for a few hours only and I already see all the crap that Dust is (and why people aren't staying for long in it). I mean, really, am I supposed to face advanced and prototype players, with millions of isks under their belts, with teams actually facing PCs and expect us to stay? Not counting being blown to bits by every single weapon in hand. Jeez, is it so hard to actually stop the stomping and actually concentrating on the fun? I will never defeat another player unless my team is stomping them mostly because I, in milita fit, the free one, where I won't spend money, will get raped by literally everything. I mean, are new players expected to be cannon fodder and like it? WTF? I though CCP had a god damn design team, and playing a few hours already brings up this mess. Fix the god damn matchmaking, either you fight people with your gear level, or equal SP. You want to play against another team? Wait in line for a match with the same ammount of players on another team. This stomping isn't fun, and it sucked all the magic out of Dust 514 for me. I don't want stomping, I want a decent fight. do you go into an mmo and expect to beat an end game player? no of course not - theyve spent more time playing and have invested a heap into the game Well, if we consider a true MMO, then this would apply, as we have progression and all (and most players won't be forced to face their high leveled opponents soon). But in a shooter, the initial gameplay must be geared towards low level players as well. In a FPS, gear must be different, not necessarily better. If the gear is better, you start make a gap. That wouldn't much of a problem if the get didn't grow exponentially per tier. A full advanced medium armour is going to murder a militia, or even full standard armour, because there are big differences between them. If there were levels, then it would just be a matter of attaining that level. But since this is based on gear, and it takes a lot of time and patience to get it, you need something to adress the new player experience, or they'll simply leave, shrinking the player base.

Dkafamos Comando Brasil 27	Posted - 2014.01.18 05:50:00 - [11] - Quote demonkiller 12 wrote: i unlocked proto hives yesterday, was so ******* happy, so being the great logi i am i threw my factional 100% injector, wyka nanos and ishukone hives on a suit with my uplinks, this is the ONLY time i have ever run full proto for a match, at the end of the match i made 500k!!!!! and lost 800k in suits, dust needs a better way to make money, i can afk in eve making hundreds of millions of isk from mining, but in this game the only way to make money is to que sync 2 proto squads and hope the other team isnt better than you, or lock your districts cough cough This is understandable. But as you said yourself, the matchmaking isn't helping unless you are running a team.
Dkafamos Comando Brasil 28	Posted - 2014.01.18 06:01:00 - [12] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Force squads to fight other squads, and just use individuals to fill in the last few spots. I don't know why thats so difficult to program into your matchmaking system. Typically if you take the time to form a squad you have the patience to get matched up for a challenging game. That is THE most odd of things in the current matchmaking system. Even in other games, where "bad matchmaking happens", they split teams equally. Whats pissing me off a lot lately is that it seems Im like 80% of the time on the losing team. Don't know if its just me, or if in reality does match so badly low SP vs. High SP.
Dkafamos Comando Brasil 35	Posted - 2014.01.18 14:54:00 - [13] - Quote GET ATMESON wrote: Dkafamos wrote: I mean, I've played for a few hours only and I already see all the crap that Dust is (and why people aren't staying for long in it). I mean, really, am I supposed to face advanced and prototype players, with millions of isks under their belts, with teams actually facing PCs and expect us to stay? Not counting being blown to bits by every single weapon in hand. Jeez, is it so hard to actually stop the stomping and actually concentrating on the fun? I will never defeat another player unless my team is stomping them mostly because I, in milita fit, the free one, where I won't spend money, will get raped by literally everything. I mean, are new players expected to be cannon fodder and like it? WTF? I though CCP had a god damn design team, and playing a few hours already brings up this mess. Fix the god damn matchmaking, either you fight people with your gear level, or equal SP. You want to play against another team? Wait in line for a match with the same ammount of players on another team. This stomping isn't fun, and it sucked all the magic out of Dust 514 for me. I don't want stomping, I want a decent fight. Welcome to New Eden? We all had it happen to us. Not one player hasnt been stomped by PRO suits. The thing about dust. Is it makes or brakes the casual shooter. Either you go through out the pub stompes and start doing it your self or you quit and no one cares. If you think players with LOADS of SP and ISK will wait in line to fight? It will be you stuck in line waiting for 1mill under SP players. If your getting stomped all the time by ADV thats truly sad. PRO must be a nightmare. I do think its a little messed up that causal players(normally COD) want to jump on here and think they will be GOD. Do the grind we all did. Get stomped like we all did. Earn your way up like we all did. Its really not that hard to NOT RUN AND GUN . Running right into a HMG or a PRO suit isnt the smartest when using free fits. Even if they use the same suit as you, the free starter fits. They will still out DPS, out EHP, and have tactics you wont have. Time spent is time earned in Dust514. Steps to fix this 1 Dont QQ 2 Join a new corp 3. Make friends with corp members 3 GRIND 4 Did I say grind? 5 Yea I did say grind. 6 save up your SP until your at 3mill or so SP 7 Pick a role you want to be. Keep in mind this will be FOREVER. 8. Spend SP and enjoy the grind to 10mill SP. 9. Learn Top corp names so you know when to leave 10, Or skip all of this and read the "new players guide" it will help you. They need modes like PRO and down, ADV and down, and Militia only. That way YOU get to pick if you get pub stomped. Keep in mind that PRO would have highest play out. ADV would have ok pay out, and Militia would have lowest payout. To bad the player base inst high enough for this. CCP could test it out with ambush maybe then add it into other game modes for a week and count how many players played those modes of ambush. To see if it would be worth it. BUT to cry about ADV suits killing you thats very sad. I would never have said that on the forums. Less QQ more Pew Pew. Maybe you should ask for PvE Hopefully a causal player will know what PvE is. SHH dont tell and dont cheat using the internet. Edit: added link to new players guide https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136343&find=unread I actually consider myself a Harcore Gamer (I wouldn't be one if I wasn't try to make a point in the forums). I love to play game for 1, maybe more years, as I feel my time was well invested. But the problem in this game isn't the QQing, is the **** poor way to allow newer players to advance. The Matchmaking doesn't split teams well. Specially when you see 12 out of 16 players of a single corporation in a Public Contract. New players seeing how stupidly unfair the game is actually don't care for fair fights anymore. They want to participate in the stomp matches as well, maybe to win sometimes as well. I finished my bonus XP of the Week on the first day and a half, so now I have no incentive to play (not even isk, as I have a good margin for it). I feel sorry for the BR 1~10 I kill in Planetside 2, that doesn't count as a kill, while I like killing lvl 80~100 BRs. There is no point in curb stomping new players unless it is beneficial for the curb stomper. I actually start to get happy when we are stomping. It means I can win a match or another before going back to the being stomped matches that are happening SO often. This is a change in matchmaking that needs to be done. Fix it, and you'll see a lot of happier players.