DUST Search - Conceptual Design for Tiericide

Pokey Dravon wrote:

BL4CKST4R wrote:

I read all of it... but I stand by what I said. Weather or not the net gain is zero as long as the module is subtracting from the positives the net gain will always be small. Although this can be compensated by simply stacking module X basic-enhanced, X basic-enhanced, Y-Complex. X being the wanted effect and Y being the compensator.

That's the whole point. You can't gain anything without giving up something up in return, so if you want a small net gain you can equip all 3 modules. Or say you're a Gallente suit with a Plasma Rifle, and you don't care about accuracy because you intent to only engage close range....well than you can put a damage modifier on and not worry about compensating for that loss in accuracy and stability.

BL4CKST4R wrote:

He is asking for making every suit act differently rather than merging then in a soup of monotony. His suggestion means that when you go from Gallente Assault 1 to Gallente assault 3 you don't unlock a better suit but rather you unlock a Suit completely different. I do agree with a merging of suit slots across tiers but removing the tiers and making every level unlock something different is a much better idea. For example imagine at level 1 you get what is now the Prototype suit, armor tanked, at level 2 you unlock the same suit with the reverse layout and Shield tanked, at level 3 you unlock a speed tanked suit, level 4 a sneaky suit, etc.

So if you want the sneaky suit type that's level 5, and your buddy wants the frontal assault suit type that's level 1....you're just boned because your play-style differs? Each specialty should be its own tree but you need an incentive to level up your specialty.


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Gemini Reynolds Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 123	Posted - 2014.01.14 19:11:00 - [1] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DROPSUITS Dropsuits of the same class should have identical Base HP, attributes, and Slot Configuration, regardless of tier. PG and CPU increase with tier. I'm not going to dissect your entire post, but this part I disagree with. In order to create unique and interesting gameplay, you cannot have identical clones of the same suit repeated ad nauseum. This is not tiericide, this is watering down. Bonuses alone are not going to make each suit unique enough for a clever player to utilize, you need to vary the attributes of a suit along with their bonuses to make them more unique and interesting, crafting more playstyles for it. An example that constantly occurs to me would be a Ranger style suit. The bonuses would be for weapons..more ammo, better damage mod efficacy (off the top of my head), but in the attributes, bring the armor down a bit and lower the suit's scan profile to something in the neighborhood of 40dB...Now you've got something a clever player could use to create a stealthier assault (if they manage to catch the change in attributes) without 'advertising' it via Bonuses. That is simply an off-the-cuff example though. You can utilize all of the attributes of a given suit to do similar things. Creating one-dimensional 'everybody is the same' layouts is a very poor choice.
Gemini Reynolds Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 123	Posted - 2014.01.14 20:44:00 - [2] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: I read all of it... but I stand by what I said. Weather or not the net gain is zero as long as the module is subtracting from the positives the net gain will always be small. Although this can be compensated by simply stacking module X basic-enhanced, X basic-enhanced, Y-Complex. X being the wanted effect and Y being the compensator. That's the whole point. You can't gain anything without giving up something up in return, so if you want a small net gain you can equip all 3 modules. Or say you're a Gallente suit with a Plasma Rifle, and you don't care about accuracy because you intent to only engage close range....well than you can put a damage modifier on and not worry about compensating for that loss in accuracy and stability. BL4CKST4R wrote: He is asking for making every suit act differently rather than merging then in a soup of monotony. His suggestion means that when you go from Gallente Assault 1 to Gallente assault 3 you don't unlock a better suit but rather you unlock a Suit completely different. I do agree with a merging of suit slots across tiers but removing the tiers and making every level unlock something different is a much better idea. For example imagine at level 1 you get what is now the Prototype suit, armor tanked, at level 2 you unlock the same suit with the reverse layout and Shield tanked, at level 3 you unlock a speed tanked suit, level 4 a sneaky suit, etc. So if you want the sneaky suit type that's level 5, and your buddy wants the frontal assault suit type that's level 1....you're just boned because your play-style differs? Each specialty should be its own tree but you need an incentive to level up your specialty. Two slight misunderstandings between both of you. I'm not saying "Assault" at level 1, "Sneaky" at level 5. I'm talking both specializations available at the same time, split the difference and say, level 3. What I am saying is that you can have multiple "Assault' role suits, within the same race even, that do different things that are varied by both bonuses and attributes as well as slot layouts. These are the key factors to making suits unique. Assume, for a moment, that all assaults across all races had the exact same layout and attributes, etc....What's the point? What motivation would I have for picking any race, beyond 'teh ArrPeez'? Now, I'll grant you, everyone can skill into any race, but once I have picked one...Why bother with any other? This idea would cut down variation to less than a quarter of what it is now. Thus, an assault would be an assault that is the same as another assault. This is poor game design, I am sorry to say. Now lets take that same conceit for a moment, identical slot layouts, and fudge with the variables for each one. So, you've got a Caldari assault that has a good base amount for shield HP. That's it's advantage, no matter what bonuses are applied to the suit. High base shield HP. Now, you want something that's assault, but sneakier? Go Minmatar. The suit has a lower overall base HP, but also a better sig profile and scan radius. This second example is similar to what we have at the moment..What I am saying is create more granularity within the races. Say, previous Cal assault, call this new one Type II: Lower base HP, traded in for, say, faster stamina recovery. Then another that has lower shield HP, but quicker recovery time from damage/depleted. Mind you in these latter examples I have not mentioned the bonuses to said suits at all. The bonuses, in my opinion, should also have nothing to do with the altered attributes of the suit. In the example of the quicker shield recovery suit, the bonuses are, instead of the possible obvious efficacy of Shield Regulators..Make the bonuses to say, scanning. Or nano-injectors, or something else. It doesn't matter in the example. The granularity of attributes and bonuses alone suggest roles without 'forcing' them. You could take any suit and still make of it what you will, build towards the bonus, or the attribute or (if you're silly) build it completely contrary. None of these alterations make the previous iteration, the one with all base stats with a good high Shield HP, any less desirable or useful either. Just a different flavor.