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Brokerib
Lone Wolves Club
245
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Posted - 2014.01.14 04:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
In response to the talk of trading a side arm or other slot to be able to fit the cloak. CCP please note, an UP class should not have to horse trade to receive a buff.
If there are to be any restrictions, keep our CPU/PG low so we can't reasonably fit two pieces of equipment without sacrificing elsewhere, unless one of them is the cloak.
1L/1S/1G/2EQ.
The above is a compromise that does not destroy scout diversity for the sake of the cloak, and stops the scout from becoming a logi-lite.
Or as Mollerz put it...
mollerz wrote:All scout suits.
All tiers.
ALL THE TIME!
1L/1SA/1G/2EQ!!
1L/1SA/1G/2EQ!!
1L/1SA/1G/2EQ!!
All scout suits.
All tiers.
ALL THE TIME!
1L/1SA/1G/2EQ!!
1L/1SA/1G/2EQ!!
1L/1SA/1G/2EQ!!
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5013
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Posted - 2014.01.14 04:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Absolutely agree. There is really no need to make the sidearm trade. Just give scouts the second equipment, which is being forced upon them to be a cloaking device, and call it a day.
Basically don't mess with any scouts' current fitting, let them use their same fittings + cloak.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
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Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
1860
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Posted - 2014.01.14 05:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
/signed
NEVER GIVE IN
NEVER RELENT
Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face.
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
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Siv Ravenwood
The Fallen knights
5
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Posted - 2014.01.14 05:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
No side arm means no gun that shoots past 5m so your telling me its ether a shotgun and hope the cloak works or something with range? On a side note wait they will start saying maps are to big and what not. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
1568
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Posted - 2014.01.14 05:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Absolutely agree. There is really no need to make the sidearm trade. Just give scouts the second equipment, which is being forced upon them to be a cloaking device, and call it a day.
Basically don't mess with any scouts' current fitting, let them use their same fittings + cloak.
Might need some higher CPU/PG I think t fitting for cloaks is going to be so insanely high that scouts will have to run naked to use them. |
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5016
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Posted - 2014.01.14 05:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Absolutely agree. There is really no need to make the sidearm trade. Just give scouts the second equipment, which is being forced upon them to be a cloaking device, and call it a day.
Basically don't mess with any scouts' current fitting, let them use their same fittings + cloak. Might need some higher CPU/PG I think t fitting for cloaks is going to be so insanely high that scouts will have to run naked to use them.
Increased CPU/PG to accommodate for cloak is implied, sorry.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
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Brokerib
Lone Wolves Club
248
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Posted - 2014.01.14 10:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Absolutely agree. There is really no need to make the sidearm trade. Just give scouts the second equipment, which is being forced upon them to be a cloaking device, and call it a day.
Basically don't mess with any scouts' current fitting, let them use their same fittings + cloak. Might need some higher CPU/PG I think t fitting for cloaks is going to be so insanely high that scouts will have to run naked to use them. Increased CPU/PG to accommodate for cloak is implied, sorry.
Correct, the idea would be to increase CPU/PG to compensate for the appropriate tier cloak for each suit, with fitting reduction calculated in. CPU/PG should be kept low so the suit can fit as normal with cloak, but would need to give up something (tiers of modules, side arm, grenade, etc) if the second equipment slot is used for something other than the cloak. |
Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
394
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Posted - 2014.01.14 10:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
+1 OP. |
Lucifalic
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
200
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Posted - 2014.01.14 11:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Couldn't agree more. The scout has been nerfed repeatedly since uprising came out. Passive scan range nerf. Speed nerf. Then stamina delay. Hit detection improvements and aim assist coupled with the above nerfs were a direct blow. All we have gotten back is 6 m passive scan (we lost 15 to start with so still a net loss of 9m). Now u want to take our sidearm away for a piece of equipment that any skilled scout does not need. I certainly don't need it to sneak up on people unseen. I prefer the challenge of using terrain and what I have left for speed to not be seen. All we will have is scrubs charging right in cloaked... Or campers
This is a line in the sand. CCP don't take our sidearm. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
1568
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Posted - 2014.01.14 11:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Brokerib wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Absolutely agree. There is really no need to make the sidearm trade. Just give scouts the second equipment, which is being forced upon them to be a cloaking device, and call it a day.
Basically don't mess with any scouts' current fitting, let them use their same fittings + cloak. Might need some higher CPU/PG I think t fitting for cloaks is going to be so insanely high that scouts will have to run naked to use them. Increased CPU/PG to accommodate for cloak is implied, sorry. Correct, the idea would be to increase CPU/PG to compensate for the appropriate tier cloak for each suit, with fitting reduction calculated in. CPU/PG should be kept low so the suit can fit as normal with cloak, but would need to give up something (tiers of modules, side arm, grenade, etc) if the second equipment slot is used for something other than the cloak.
I just can't trust CCP on this, they overestimate the effectiveness of EQ. For example the scanner turned out to be super OP. The commando turned out Super crap just so he can have 1 extra light weapon... |
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Sir Petersen
Valhalla Nord
463
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Posted - 2014.01.14 11:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Running around with Nova knives, AR & some grenades is a Scout classic. AR for the gungame. Nova for speed & quick reactions and the grenades for multiple purposes. I would chose this setup before cloaking any day of the week.
I say it again. Removing the sidearm slot is simply tragic.
My Channel : Valhalla South
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Brokerib
Lone Wolves Club
251
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Posted - 2014.01.14 11:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Brokerib wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Absolutely agree. There is really no need to make the sidearm trade. Just give scouts the second equipment, which is being forced upon them to be a cloaking device, and call it a day.
Basically don't mess with any scouts' current fitting, let them use their same fittings + cloak. Might need some higher CPU/PG I think t fitting for cloaks is going to be so insanely high that scouts will have to run naked to use them. Increased CPU/PG to accommodate for cloak is implied, sorry. Correct, the idea would be to increase CPU/PG to compensate for the appropriate tier cloak for each suit, with fitting reduction calculated in. CPU/PG should be kept low so the suit can fit as normal with cloak, but would need to give up something (tiers of modules, side arm, grenade, etc) if the second equipment slot is used for something other than the cloak. I just can't trust CCP on this, they overestimate the effectiveness of EQ. For example the scanner turned out to be super OP. The commando turned out Super crap just so he can have 1 extra light weapon...
The suggestion in the OP will buffer scouts from a poor implementation of cloaks, maintain our current versatility, and introduce new versatility. And if the CPU/PG is worked out correctly, it also means that the additional versatility is balanced through fitting requirements.
1L/1SA/1G/2EQ |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
1972
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Posted - 2014.01.14 11:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
I don't even want a 2nd equipment slot if it means losing a sidearm.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Scout Registry
491
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Posted - 2014.01.14 12:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
+1 OP
+ Better scan & movement stats
+ A second EQ Slot & enough CPU/PG to fit Cloak |
Kain Spero
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
2620
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Posted - 2014.01.14 14:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
I actually agree. I don't think the scout should have to loose a slot to gain and equipment slot. Especially if the cloak lands in a reasonably balanced fashion.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
1977
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Posted - 2014.01.14 14:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:I actually agree. I don't think the scout should have to loose a slot to gain and equipment slot. Especially if the cloak lands in a reasonably balanced fashion.
It feels like they are forcing us to use cloaks.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Kahn Zo
Furyan Alpha
214
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Posted - 2014.01.14 14:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Scout Registry wrote:
+ Better scan & movement stats
+ A second EQ Slot & enough CPU/PG to fit Cloak
agreed.
signed.
" No no no no. I can't just fit willy nilly on my suit." ~ mollerz
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Protected Void
Endless Hatred
232
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Posted - 2014.01.14 14:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
OP is right. CCP logic here does not work.
They've acknowledged scouts are underperforming and need hugs for 7 or 8 months now. Why do we have to lose anything at all to get those hugs? We need a buff, period. Not a tit-for-tat exchange that still keeps us underperforming. |
Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
Top Men.
533
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Posted - 2014.01.14 17:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
^ that.
Under 28db
Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14)
I have a God, His name is Dakka.
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Kushmir Nadian
Valor Coalition
344
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Posted - 2014.01.14 17:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
Don't think this is a big deal either. The game is good when all suits have roles and are solid threats. Sidearm for the scout is no big deal....you'll need to give the Minmatar something special if its going to only have 1 EQ slot.
Boost its speed maybe?
Replication Veteran: On hiatus until we have 10 game modes, jets, all racial suits/wpns and EVE has a reason to care.
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
291
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Posted - 2014.01.14 17:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Agree fully. Taking away the side arm will break the scout.
Please fix the mic bubble bug...
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Sener Machius
FACTION WARFARE ARMY
6
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Posted - 2014.01.14 19:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Signed.
We won't accept Quid Pro Quo. |
True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
5668
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Posted - 2014.01.14 20:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Absolutely agree. There is really no need to make the sidearm trade. Just give scouts the second equipment, which is being forced upon them to be a cloaking device, and call it a day.
Basically don't mess with any scouts' current fitting, let them use their same fittings + cloak. Might need some higher CPU/PG I think t fitting for cloaks is going to be so insanely high that scouts will have to run naked to use them.
I think that is the intent for the other suit frames....if they want a cloak they need to sacrifice EHP for it. For scouts however I feel that the suit bonus will be what determines how the suit functions.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall.
For faith is your armour and through it, the enemy will find no breach"
-Askura 10:3
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
943
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Posted - 2014.01.14 20:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Absolutely agree. There is really no need to make the sidearm trade. Just give scouts the second equipment, which is being forced upon them to be a cloaking device, and call it a day.
Basically don't mess with any scouts' current fitting, let them use their same fittings + cloak. Might need some higher CPU/PG I think t fitting for cloaks is going to be so insanely high that scouts will have to run naked to use them.
That's ok scouts could use a slight CPU/PG buff anyway. Currently I run a allotek nanohive in my Eq (at proto), and that thing has saved my @$$ more times than I can count. I dont have a problem right now with being stealthy (gal scout) what is the cloak going to bring to the table that would make me consider giving up my nano or my Viziam SP (I use my sidearm as much or more than my main weapon) or sacrifice my abillity to perform range combat by giving up my Kaalakiota RR?
I think that a cloak would be nice, but does it warrant the sacrifice of any of the three listed above? Currently I can't see how.
{:)}{3GÇó>
Please help me save the Gal scout!:
linky
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Matticus Monk
Ordus Trismegistus
990
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Posted - 2014.01.14 21:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
I support my scout brothers in this.
Even if I was interested in having a cloak in the first place, I wouldn't be interested in losing a sidearm to gain it; especially given it's unproven effectiveness.
I see more other players interested in becoming scouts AFTER cloaks are introduced, while it seems to me most scouts are ho-hum on the matter of the cloak.
For the few scouts that have stuck through thick and thin and actually want a cloak, at least make it effective for them while not making it a requirement for those not interested. And don't mess up our play-style if we choose not to use a cloak. that are interested in cloaks.
If I wanted to play a try-hard logi puss and only use a light weapon - that's what I'd be doing.
/signed, in blood. |
Sir Petersen
Valhalla Nord
467
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Posted - 2014.01.14 21:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kushmir Nadian wrote:Don't think this is a big deal either. The game is good when all suits have roles and are solid threats. Sidearm for the scout is no big deal....you'll need to give the Minmatar something special if its going to only have 1 EQ slot.
Boost its speed maybe?
Sidearm is a HUGE deal when running around with Nova knives. Running around in open areas with just the knives is plain silly. Even with cloaking. Common..
My Channel : Valhalla South
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One Eyed King
Eyniletti Rangers
Minmatar Republic
205
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Posted - 2014.01.15 03:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
Signed. CCP, why do you hate scouts so?
Nova knifing scout masochist. I would be a sadist, but CCP won't let me.
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Sir Petersen
Valhalla Nord
468
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Posted - 2014.01.15 11:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
I personally think there-¦s nothing wrong with my scout fit the way it is today. Sure.. It-¦s tough for some to run as a Scout and we do get killed a lot but once you get the skills 2be one you become a tough cookie 2 crack.
My Channel : Valhalla South
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2053
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Posted - 2014.01.15 19:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Agreed.
NO COMPROMISES!
Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
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ALPHA DECRIPTER
Dragon-Empire
661
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Posted - 2014.01.15 20:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
I never seen CCP say anything about dropping the sidearm 
Scouts will get new class bonuses(one being great reduction to fitting cost for cloaks), increased CPU/PG, and the cloak which will be a EQ that anyone can use but will have a steep CPU/PG cost. We'll keep our guns (and knives) but will have to sacrifice our REs, Uplinks, and Scanners in order to make room for the cloak.
Scout Tactician
Dance puppets, DANCE!
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Phazoid
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
228
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Posted - 2014.01.15 21:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
dont take our sidearm, just give us cloaks
Dragons don't have friends. The nearest we can get to the idea is an enemy who is still alive.
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Grand Master Kubo
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
20
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Posted - 2014.01.15 21:48:00 -
[32] - Quote
Scouts aren't underpowered.
- Kubo |
Outer Raven
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Public Disorder.
114
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Posted - 2014.01.16 00:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote:I never seen CCP say anything about dropping the sidearm Scouts will get new class bonuses(one being great reduction to fitting cost for cloaks), increased CPU/PG, and the cloak which will be a EQ that anyone can use but will have a steep CPU/PG cost. We'll keep our guns (and knives) but will have to sacrifice our REs, Uplinks, and Scanners in order to make room for the cloak.
CCP is/has been talking about adding in a second EG slot to all scout suits except Min Scouts. They have also mentioned that they wanted to removed the side arms from all scout suits including new suits except Min scouts as well, the CPM and others have oppose this change "loss of the side arm" however.
___-öGûêGûêGêƒ________________
GûêGûêGûêGòÜGûêa»½GòáGûê Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ GûÆ PEW
¯¯GùÑGò¥GûêGûêGùñ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
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Kain Spero
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
2649
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Posted - 2014.01.17 17:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
I hope you guys enjoy the new stats that have been posted. Please give your feedback. It's actually has been really helpful both to CCP directly and for us in our conversations when the CPM and CCP have discussed these issues.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Brokerib
Lone Wolves Club
307
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Posted - 2014.01.17 23:57:00 -
[35] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:I hope you guys enjoy the new stats that have been posted. Please give your feedback. It actually has been really helpful both to CCP directly and for us in our conversations when the CPM and CCP have discussed these issues.
Thanks Kain, the involvement and support of the CPM in this has been much appreciated.
I'm sure that members of the scout community are already making their opinions heard about the new stats and suit bonuses 
The only additional changes that would interest me at this point are an increase in base speed to further differentiate the scout suits from the medium suits (the Amarr scout appears to be on par with the Mini assault), and an increase in fall distance/reduction in fall damage for scouts.
I understand that there are issues with increasing the speed of the scouts too much, but an additional 0.2m a second across all scouts would mean that scouts are definitively faster than the medium suits.
And the fall damage is essential to movement. I regularly lose shield from jumping over fences. |
Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
295
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:01:00 -
[36] - Quote
Brokerib wrote:Kain Spero wrote:I hope you guys enjoy the new stats that have been posted. Please give your feedback. It actually has been really helpful both to CCP directly and for us in our conversations when the CPM and CCP have discussed these issues. Thanks Kain, the involvement and support of the CPM in this has been much appreciated. I'm sure that members of the scout community are already making their opinions heard about the new stats and suit bonuses The only additional changes that would interest me at this point are an increase in base speed to further differentiate the scout suits from the medium suits (the Amarr scout appears to be on par with the Mini assault), and an increase in fall distance/reduction in fall damage for scouts. I understand that there are issues with increasing the speed of the scouts too much, but an additional 0.2m a second across all scouts would mean that scouts are definitively faster than the medium suits. And the fall damage is essential to movement. I regularly lose shield from jumping over fences.
They should increase scout walking speed not their sprint speed.
Please fix the mic bubble bug...
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