Bump... this is a problem that needs to be fixed. From what I hear, the idea that balancing through cost won't fix the problem. The real issue still remains that Hardeners vs AV and tank spam is destroying the game for the foot soldiers.

You can damage a tank while it's hardeners are on , it just depends on the amount that you inflict .

A range buff would help swarms . AV grenades work , I have almost soloed a tank with my swarm and grenades so I know it can be done . It's not that bad when you have help and I believe the problem is more or less , squad mates unwillingness to change fits and lessen the tank menace .

I don't believe that CCP is catering to vehicle users because the vehicles still have some ironing out needed and it's not easy at all even though you might believe otherwise .

If players would change fits to combat tanks instead of running around with AR's all day then you would notice a difference and throw in a FG or two and you would change your opinion because you would see different results .

Wonder how your going to feel when the ADV & PRO tanks come into play ??? Just be patient because vehicles are not going anywhere and the next batch will be stronger than this so buffs to the AV will be coming soon enough .

Grab an assault FG and STFU. One merc can solo even the best tanks if you know what you are doing.

4/4 matches I've played tonight have been 4-6 tanks on one side vs a team unable to kill them due to weak AV, the tanks being able to speed out of reach of AV, and how little anything and everything affects them. For the love of god, stop catering to the minority as the majority of players aren't skilled into tanks and matches like these turn into a slaughter for whichever team is the non-tank stomping one. Since 1.7 this game has been 0 fun unless I have at least 3 tanks in my squad... I honestly have lost a lot of interest in playing it and have mostly decided to afk my SP grind when I see tank spam at the beginning...

ETA: please, in the future, when you think to buff one thing and then majorly Nerf the counter to it, don't. Next round after posting this? 5 tanks on the field...

So its ok for you to afk comething that CCP has directly expressed its against but farming sessions and pc district locking is bad? Even tho as of now PC is working as intended hmmm

I happen to aggree with this thread a great deal. I don't think too much needs to go into buffing or nerfing anything. Simply removing the speed tanks would be sufficient. They should have a max speed of a scout at best. I also think they should cost about 8x moreif you aren't going to nerf anything at all.

All tanks should have a shooting range of 300 meters, max. I'm being generous. This rail tank sniping thing is pissing me off and completely nonsense. I was over 600 metters away and lost my vehicle. That is absolute nonsene. Installation turrets should maintain their range if they aren't getting any buffs.

1) Get rid of tank speed and make it no faster (at its absolute fastest) than the fastest scout
2) Increase ISK costs to, bare minimum, 4x the current costs but I recommend 8x
3) Limit range of any projectiles to no more than 300 meters. If a swarm can't get to it (which is a freaking missle mind you and most missles hit a half a mile if they are defective to say the least) then I don't believe a tank should be able have any range a swarm doesn't have at an absolute minimum.

Very good points made.

The most irritating point about the tank cost is the huge differential between the cost of a viable tank and the cost of viable AV suits. Last night, on my heavy, I got in a squad with a friend who uses a militia heavy suit and an Ishukone with Prof 3 as his AV... I was using an advanced heavy suit (non-sentinel for dual damage mods) and an ishukone with Prof 3. We tested it out to see the number of shots it would take to kill a tank... Using two heavies fitted out in this manner, it took about 4-5 shots to pop a tank (dual hardener Sicas were un-poppable) and cost us a net of about 140k in suits (for the two of us combined) to pop tanks costing half. In comparison, it is like having to use a proto suit to kill an advanced.

As far as range... the red line needs a huge Nerf... You should not be able to sit deep in your redline and pop vehicles being called in in the other redline. This behavior is only encouraged by giving tanks a near unlimited range.