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demens grimwulff
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
98
   |
Posted - 2014.01.11 04:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Good evening,
As someone who has been playing Minmatar for 10 months now, I think i can make some comments on the suit... at first, I loved it... the speed allowed for moving about the map quickly, even with armor plates (this was back in the day of shared vision, so no one used scanners) to supplement the low CPU of the suit. This was the time of bad hitboxes. I could strafe and run and be care free, frolicking around as bullets completely missed me. Then they dropped the shared vision and went to scanners... my armor plates thinned out as I had to use a CPU intensive dampner in order to stay alive as my glass cannon wouldn't make it through anything but a short gun fight. Fitting 5 Complex shield mods net me about 530 shields with only 220 armor... enough to last 3 shots off a scrambler rifle... but nay, in order to keep up with damage and the high TTK of rail rifles and scrambler rifles (also, please reconsider and nerf these things... 120 base damage per shot with massive spam rate and ultra high alpha damage and a clip 2x the size of the tactical AR... seriously...) I dropped a shield extender and run a single damage mod on my proto suit, giving me about 470 shield (well, technically less, because you can't really fit a complex damage mod on the suit with 4 complex shield extenders, less you make huge cuts elsewhere) and 220 armor... no where near what is needed to survive. So i stopped using the suit and lieu of an actual Minimatar assault suit... it isn't my fault you called it a Logistics suit, or that you can't seem to make the Minmatar Assault worth anything more than a joke. Yes, the suit has its uses, but all in all, it is a true try-hard suit... Gal and Amarr are smooth sailing suits with great bonuses, and Caldari... well... still easily better then the Minimatar.
But now you want us to have +25% (at proto level) to damage modifiers... what? The suit can barely fit 1 damage mod if you want ANY sort of play time, and how the heck will 25% of 10% even matter? Lets do the math...
Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle...
Dmg without mod: 23.2
Dmg with mod: 25.52
Dmg with mod and proto bonus: 26.1
DPS without mod: 464
DPS with mod: 510.4
DPS with mod and proto bonus: 522
So, lets compare to Gal bonus... 5% more armor from plates per level
lets say they run 3 enh and 1 complex
+ HP without bonus: 511.5 (this is assuming the skill's bonus in order to use complex)
+ HP with bonus: 639.38 (this is assuming the suit's bonus is applied after the plate skill bonus)
Net hp gain: 127.875
This is equivocal to one burst from a Boundless CR, 1.5 shots from a Rail Rifle, and <1 shot from a Viziam Scrambler Rifle (or 1.25 if not using charged). Lets see... the Six Kin gains 11.6 dps OR 0.58 dmg per bullet... Gal gained 127.875 hp... i'd rather have the armor, but I only have two low slots... so... lets look at Caldari's bonus...
Cal bonus, 5% more shielf from extenders per level
Assuming they are running 3 complex shield extenders (since, you know, enhanced extenders are worthless; but most Caldari now dual-tank and run 2 damage mods)
+HP without bonus: 217.8 (assuming skill @ 5)
+HP with bonus: 272.25 (assuming suit skill is applied after shield ext. skill)
Net hp gain: 54.45
Well... that is trash... but considering the Caldari will have over 500 shield with that, still better then the Minmatar. As well, they have a several second faster shield recharge time (Min Logi's shields recharge faster AND sooner than the Assault... and have 5 hp/sec regen vs 1 hp/sec), AND they can fit a nanohive without running a CPU mod in a low slot (which is silly since you only have 2...). The combat rifle was supposed to revive the Min Assault... instead, it allowed me to replace a basic shield extender for a complex one... but I gave up a nanohive to do it. Now what are we stuck with...? A bonus that is as useful to the class as a cake would be to a heavy.
Also, on a side note, the Amarr's proposed bonus is even worse... i'm not saying, but i'm saying... that is terribad too.
Peace,
demens |
demens grimwulff
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
98
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 04:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
I wanted to add this, because I felt it is necessary... I HATE having to run a logistics suit to be a viable assault... but point for point, the Minmatar Assault has next to know redeeming features over the Minmatar Logistics right now...
I am sure slot load out might change on the new release, and cpu/pg... hp/sec... shield delay and recharge rate... but a lot is wrong with this suit when it comes to balancing.
And to everyone who sees me in pubs... if i'm in an assault suit, 0 dmg mods... they just don't work on this suit if you want to survive (unless you, oddly, see me in assault proto, then... 1 dmg mod). |
Chief-Shotty
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
103
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 09:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
You are spot on brother. I use min assault because at the time back i thought assault was for assaulting. The reliant of shields in the highs and only 2 lows net for some high cpu demand and nil armor holding capability and even less so since everyone and their mom are running scanners. Running a complex dampener will hide you but then you only have one slot.
If you consider rechargers for your shields or armor reps and even with the low fitting cost of the CR you still will find yourself short in survival ability. When aim assist/hit detection was poor then speed was an actual asset but aim assist has all but removed the speed advantage from the suit. It is not possible to fit a damage mod on any suit below proto because its mandatory to fit shield modules in the 3 slots to get decent HP and even if you don't, fitting a damage mode is a poor choice because cpu demand wont hold and fitting anything more than enhanced is insane because you will have to sacrifice an already low hp suit.
With everyone getting health bonus the suit with the lowest hp has to lose even more hp to fit damage mods. Even then at max level you are only getting 25% bonus to the module so effectively a ;
Basic dmg: 3*1.25 = 3.75 dmg bonus
Enhanced dmg: 5*1.25 = 6.25 dmg bonus
Complex dmg: 10*1.25 = 12.5 dmg bonus
Giving that other suits are technically getting hp buff from modules doesn't this cancel out the damage bonus since other suits will actually tank the 'extra' damage while you will suffer even more considering you have no hp bonus and have to sacrifice your main tank to do it.
so here is my opinion to these suspected/potential changes
My opinion and reaction
Trust in the Rust!
7-Time Matar Mass Driver World Champion
Combat Rifle is for Combat!
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demens grimwulff
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
99
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 16:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yea, it is skill that only affect those with proto suits, and even then, in negligible ways. Imagine... starting fresh with a Min basic assault and basic dmg mods...
3*1.05=3.15 lol don't keep your hopes up... |
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
286
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 19:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Damn thing was always UP since it was released just the hit detection made it viable, im certain every minmatar assault will remember the introduction of the hit detection buff and the aim assist buff as it is truly the day that suit died. I can remember thinking "well that was quick" as i tried and failed to evade the incoming fire that at the time i had gotten used to avoiding.
Not only that but this suit should be the example of why logi suits are too good at assaulting because the minmatar logi can outperform this the minmatar assault easily. |
demens grimwulff
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
99
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 20:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:Damn thing was always UP since it was released just the hit detection made it viable, im certain every minmatar assault will remember the introduction of the hit detection buff and the aim assist buff as it is truly the day that suit died. I can remember thinking "well that was quick" as i tried and failed to evade the incoming fire that at the time i had gotten used to avoiding.
Not only that but this suit should be the example of why logi suits are too good at assaulting because the minmatar logi can outperform this the minmatar assault easily.
yep... I remember that :/ and that is why I spent more skill points... I needed a viable assault suit, so I went Min Logi |
Altina McAlterson
Pure Innocence.
EoN.
792
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 21:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
I've been running the minnie assault since it was new and I agree it's completely worthless now. At first I thought that proposed bonus would screw it up and make it OP or something until I remember how numbers work. They need to do something much better if they want that suit to work. Now strafing and dodging are beyond worthless and tanking/DPS is all that matters. So I'm going logistics. But not slayer logi because that is ******* lame.
Good Advice
Grey 17 should have stayed missing.
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Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
286
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 21:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
I stayed with the suit untill 1.7 came out and skilled for a standard minmatar logi suit Sver BPO i had but upon realising it was as good if not better than my ADV min assualt iam taking a break from dust now out of fustration after about a week of using the logi suit and the tank spam i had no want to play the game i didnt feel right using the logi suit as in my head its exploiting a OP bit of gear so i stopped in hope CCP will make a noticeable improvement to the game if so ill return. |
demens grimwulff
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
99
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 21:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:I stayed with the suit untill 1.7 came out and skilled for a standard minmatar logi suit Sver BPO i had but upon realising it was as good if not better than my ADV min assualt iam taking a break from dust now out of fustration after about a week of using the logi suit and the tank spam i had no want to play the game i didnt feel right using the logi suit as in my head its exploiting a OP bit of gear so i stopped in hope CCP will make a noticeable improvement to the game if so ill return.
Dude... I agree with you... but in order to stay competitive in proto v proto battles, Min Assault is a joke... I have to resort to Min Logi just to be competitive against other proto assaults or the Gal Logis |
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
286
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 20:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
hahaha i see where your coming from you should have tried PC with it i used to be active in PC with the old Proto min assualt suit lets just say PC aint fun at the best of times with that suit its a test of patience. |
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
3239
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 02:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
True that, I only got it to proto to run damage mods with the Swarm Launcher, now it got nerfed and I have a crap Proto suit and a crap light weapon.
You wanna battle / Aztec's not afraid of you / I could care less about your reputation / Even though it maybe true.
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
372
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 03:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
i want my internet back so i can run dual flaylocks on it
but i also want multiple suit types within each class
like 3-4 assault suits with diffrent bonuses and attributes for each race
Proud Christian
one of the most essential parts of eve is left out of dust: freedom, exploration, open-world gameplay.
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Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
1829
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 06:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
demens grimwulff wrote:
Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle...
Dmg without mod: 23.2
Dmg with mod: 25.52
Dmg with mod and proto bonus: 26.1
DPS without mod: 464
DPS with mod: 510.4
DPS with mod and proto bonus: 522
Don't forget the increase of ROF for Assault suits.
That Six Kin will now fire at 1320 RPM (22 shots a second)
At 23.2 dmg a shot, this makes it's BASE DPS 510.4
Lets add on Pro V. 26.68 dmg a shot. DPS is now ~587
NOW, lets add on the single Damage mod, with the bonus. A 12.5% Increase.
29.6 Dmg a shot. 651.2 DPS. This is how much damage is coming out of the barrel. Depending on the targets shields or armor, this gun will deal a DPS of around 618-716.
This is from ONE damage mod. That is around 1.40x the damage of a normal, non-assault variant using the same weapon.
That's pretty big.
Now, the difficult part is where it differs from the OTHER assaults. It will only deal about 1.02x the damage compared to another assault using a single damage mod.
Stacking two damage mods pushes your DPS to 702, wheras other assaults only hit 679 DPS. This is 1.03x the damage compared to another assault using two damage mods. This is the same amount as getting an extra level of prof over your target.
In short, the assault bonus in general is REALLY nice, but they really need to make the numbers for the damage mod bonus larger. It simply does not provide enough of a bonus to be beneficial. The edge it gives you is MINUSCULE.
I think they should scrap the Damage mod bonus entirely. Give me a 2% bonus to splash radius on weapons and a 5% bonus to projectile weapon clip size. (per level). I would love this. It doesn't directly increase the damage of the weapons, but will give you an incentive to use the Minmatar racial weapons.
This would give a bonus to the Flaylock and MD by making them more effective (without buffing damage)
This would also help alleviate a problem in the Assault bonus. We will tear through a 68 round clip in 3 seconds. This bonus will let us apply more DPS over time, since we will spend less time in reload (and more time spewing lead, which is something the Minmatar do well  ). This bonus will give the Assault it's famous 100 round SMG, and give it the glorious 85 round ACR.
Just my 0.02 ISK on the matter.
Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
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Chief-Shotty
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
103
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Posted - 2014.01.14 04:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
^This
That's what we need as minmatar, if you are going to sacrifice my survivability, at least let me be death reincarnate.
The bonus to splash radius of explosive weapons and increase to projectile clip increase will allow us to be able to deal massive damage in short (hit and run) tactics and then use the speed to break contact before the enemy even knows what hit them.
I still hate the fact that we don't get any health benefits like other suits are getting even worse is that our high slots have to compete with shield which is are primary defense. I would like 10 percent increase to damage mods so even from level one we would be able to tell the difference. 50% at max skill
A single complex at max skills would net a 15% increase alone.......i can deal with that.
Trust in the Rust!
7-Time Matar Mass Driver World Champion
Combat Rifle is for Combat!
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Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
1860
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 05:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Chief-Shotty wrote:^This
That's what we need as minmatar, if you are going to sacrifice my survivability, at least let me be death reincarnate.
The bonus to splash radius of explosive weapons and increase to projectile clip increase will allow us to be able to deal massive damage in short (hit and run) tactics and then use the speed to break contact before the enemy even knows what hit them.
I still hate the fact that we don't get any health benefits like other suits are getting even worse is that our high slots have to compete with shield which is are primary defense. I would like 10 percent increase to damage mods so even from level one we would be able to tell the difference. 50% at max skill
A single complex at max skills would net a 15% increase alone.......i can deal with that.
Yup.
I want to be a Glass Cannon or a Fragile Speedster
Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face.
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines
2078
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Posted - 2014.01.14 05:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Net hp gain, you make it look so tasty *drools like homer* uuugggghhhhhhhhh.
Level 2 forum warrior.
Minmatar and Gallente fw.
I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
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