DUST Search - Lets talk tanks

Aizen Intiki wrote:

Well, he has a point with the Gunnlogi being OP. Let me explain without rage:

First off, the rails. See, if you're decent enough, rails can be used for AI, and quite well. I've seen it happen, and done it (I can do it, just like blasters more due do being Gallente). So the "Rails are AV only" is frankly false. Also, being able to 2/3 shot things is what we were trying to go away from. We had enough of that from IAFG's. And that's what Partice Cannons have become, only worse. Speaking of IAFG's, rails are far superior to FG's, and that needs fixing.

Second, Missiles. Other than the bug, missiles are completely OP. That's obvious. They are so easy to use, I don't even have to try with fighting in a Missile HAV. It's just point and fire, reload, point, fire. repeat on another 2 HAV's. They frankly need a nerf.

Lastly, both of the Caldari HAV's have too much CPU/PG compared to the Maddy's and the Soma. The Sica needs nerfing (so does the Soma, but on a lesser form) for the CPU/ PG, but the Gunnlogi can stay where it's at. The Maddy, however, needs a buff in CPU/PG.

Then, it will be on equal footing.until then, Gunnlogi will be OP.

P.S. Damage mods and the redline are also factors to the rails being OP.


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PEW JACKSON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 177	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:16:00 - [1] - Quote Ello you Dusty Mercs I'm a bit of a rambler, so I'll jump right into things. Was in a squad of tankers yesterday roaming Ambush(used rails, but I know still tank stomped). A discussion about tank fits came up since we were all doing really well. A squad member gave his opinion and we all were expecting a pretty quick change in topic to pass the time in matches. To everyone's surprise, our fellow tanker went on about how he felt towards the different tank hulls and turrets. [All the other tankers ran blasters, including him] He stated that the Gunnlogi was simply OP, and that it needed to get nerfed. He also stated that railguns needed to get nerfed into the ground, because they're OP as well. I run Gunnlogis & rails, so I asked him "why?". He names a build 1 complex armor plate, 1 basic armor hardener, 2 dmg mods, shield hardener, and particle cannon. He also said how the fitting power on the Gunnlogi is OP for being able to fit such a broken thing. So the squad is quiet, allowing him to rant. He continues by saying how he has crunched the numbers to prove that the fit he named was the most OP. I asked him what exactly is OP about that fit besides the armor plate? He says the fact that this tank can 2 shot any unhardened tank, and 3 shot any tanks through a hardener. I told him that that's a pure anti tank fit. I saw no problem. Especially since that fit gives up all the easy blaster kills. He did raise a good point that I agree with. The Gunnlogi shouldn't be able to fit a complex plate with it being a shield tank. Especially with a proto rail. I tell him that it takes a considerable amount of SP to pull that fit off though. He just repeated saying the Gunnlogi should get a PG & CPU nerf. Also stating that the Rail gun should get nerfed into the ground. I ask him why do you hate my tank so much? He fires back and says that his blaster shouldn't lose up close against a rail. I told him that he was using a turret geared more towards killing infantry, to kill a tank, while the other tanker was using a turret geared more towards killing vehicles. He even continued saying that the Gunnlogi's hardener + shield regen mechanic was horribly OP and broken. I ask why do you hate shield tanks so much? He said that Gunnlogi's shields shouldn't recharge under blaster or any kind of AV fire. I said then your armor reps should stop every time you get hit then. I continued to say that he was still trying to kill a tank with an anti infantry turret. He then goes on to say that the Madrugar is under powered compared to the Gunnlogi. His stance on that being the fitting power between the two. He said that the Maddy should get at least a 100 cpu buff while also having armor modules use less cpu. (another point I agree with) Then we go back to his hatred and rage felt towards the shield tank. He says again that even if the Madrugar got a cpu buff, the Gunnlogi still needs a nerf. I told him let's stop with all the nerf this, nerf that bullsh*t. You don't want to see shield tanks with armor? Give the Maddy more PG with it's CPU buff and raise the PG cost of plates. He stood by his nerf bat mentality. At that point I saw that he just wanted Madrugars to reign supreme, because he still pushed for a nerf instead of balance. We discussed turrets and I threw this out there. Blasters: Primarily anti infantry with low AV capabilities. Missiles: Equally effective against Infantry and Vehicles. Rails: Primarily anti vehicle with low anti infantry capabilities. To be quite honest, I think tanks are nearly perfect balance wise against each other excluding the triple dmg modded red line rail. Blaster Maddy killing infantry? Call in a Gunnlogi with a rail. Rail Gunnlogi killing tanks? Call in a Maddy rail. Maddy rail pwning Gunllogis? Call in a Missile Maddy/Gunnlogi. I could think of tons of scenarios. Each turret fits into a scenario, and that's good. (feels too simple at times though) I don't want to see things get run into the ground again. CCP went overboard on Tank vs AV balance, but Tank vs Tank is nearly perfect. Lets discuss. Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
PEW JACKSON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 177	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:32:00 - [2] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Well you're right, the blaster is a really awful anti-HAV weapon unless you're fighting another blaster....then it's just fun as hell. it is a little frustrating when you get up point blank against a rail tank and it still wins, but its an acceptable tradeoff considering how easy it is to get kills with a blaster. Now the point about missiles....normally I would agree that missiles would be that nice middle ground between AV and AP, but with 1.7 they've turned into pure alpha strike DPS turrets, as the splash radius is simply too small to consistently get infantry kills without a direct hit. The role that Missiles now take is much akin to what I envision for Artillery turrets if we ever got those. What I could see for the future is perhaps a shift to make Blasters more of an AV weapon by lowering the fire rate significantly and bumping the damage per shot up, making it harder to use on infantry. Then we could have Large Autocannon turrets (4 HMGs strapped together with duct tape and tie-wraps) and use that as more of the anti-infantry turret. You has my vote for CPM Run in the election!!! This one needs our VOTES!!!!!!! Couldn't have said it better myself. Just lost trying to figure out the role Amarr turrets will play. Maybe precision anti infantry/mid range AV? Like futher than missiles, but shorter than rails. Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
PEW JACKSON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 177	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:44:00 - [3] - Quote ^ Definitely going places if you can share some of that thinking with some of the dense rulers(Devs) of New Eden. [Not all Devs are bad] Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
PEW JACKSON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 177	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:58:00 - [4] - Quote Aizen Intiki wrote: Well, he has a point with the Gunnlogi being OP. Let me explain without rage: First off, the rails. See, if you're decent enough, rails can be used for AI, and quite well. I've seen it happen, and done it (I can do it, just like blasters more due do being Gallente). So the "Rails are AV only" is frankly false. Also, being able to 2/3 shot things is what we were trying to go away from. We had enough of that from IAFG's. And that's what Partice Cannons have become, only worse. Speaking of IAFG's, rails are far superior to FG's, and that needs fixing. Second, Missiles. Other than the bug, missiles are completely OP. That's obvious. They are so easy to use, I don't even have to try with fighting in a Missile HAV. It's just point and fire, reload, point, fire. repeat on another 2 HAV's. They frankly need a nerf. Lastly, both of the Caldari HAV's have too much CPU/PG compared to the Maddy's and the Soma. The Sica needs nerfing (so does the Soma, but on a lesser form) for the CPU/ PG, but the Gunnlogi can stay where it's at. The Maddy, however, needs a buff in CPU/PG. Then, it will be on equal footing.until then, Gunnlogi will be OP. P.S. Damage mods and the redline are also factors to the rails being OP. Everyone who says rails are OP usually have some vehicle that gets popped by them. The same point of rails being used for AI can be made with the FG. I think the only OP point that Gunnlogi has over the Maddy is the CPU. Give maddy 580 CPU and I think things will look better. Maybe even giving plates a slight raise in PG cost. Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
PEW JACKSON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 177	Posted - 2014.01.11 00:01:00 - [5] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: I'm getting tired of bringing the AV view of AV discussions only to hear. AV is balanced it only takes 3 Proto Forge Guns to take out a Mlt Tanker who isn't engaged in combat with you. The broken part of AV is the no Bucks for all the bang.... 35 WP for every 1000 ehp damage and people won't care if tanks die. They'll be happy just farming points with an occasional kill. Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
PEW JACKSON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 177	Posted - 2014.01.11 02:09:00 - [6] - Quote Marad''er wrote: He raised good points though. Rails are horribly over powered... You don't think the same? Why do you think Mlt rail with dmg mod is so good? It's because it's OP to start with. Tank v Tank is lame and boring as hell. Whoever has the rail fit wins. Tank v Tank isn't skill... It's become like infantry now.. Whoever shoots first wins.. The variety in fittings are gone. Everyone has the SAME EXACT FITTING! Lol Take away rails for 1 day, and you'll see the forums erupt with Blasters r OP!!!! threads. I've alpha'd rail tanks with missiles and been alpha'd while using rails. Yes whoever shoots first wins 90% of the time. Maybe fittings are simple rite now so it'd be easier to add the other two racial hulls? Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/