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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1295
   |
Posted - 2014.01.10 23:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K136AYc8G-w
Military channel Apache Helicopter
Problem:
Dropships are paper airplanes verses tanks. This a good thing. You would never want a dropship with the armor of a tank in the air. Simultaneously, whenever rail tanks are on the battlefront, dropships cannot exist.
When it comes to Tank vs dropship combat dropships simply do not do enough damage to be any threat to a tank. Granted, prototype missle turrets on a dropship (abbr. DS) can cause significant damage to militia tanks without hardners but beyond that, DS' cannot destroy tanks. So, as a result tanks and especially rail tanks neutralize as vehicles.
Since AV is so weak, the only thing that can stop a tank is another tank.
Solution:
*keep DS sheild/armor where it is
*make dropship skills increase damage for small turrets by a greater amount than it is now.
*keep splash damage fall-off on missles the same as it is now (so that infantry aren't instant killed.)
*increase the damage on Small rail turrets for dropships and LAVs
Giving dropships stronger (LAVs) bonuses to turret damage (strong enough to kill a tank with repeated fire. NOT instantly) will help keep tanks balanced.
DS and LAVs have much les shield/armor than tanks so a TANK shooting a DS with a rail like it does now normal kills it, and will continue too. Howver with these changes a tank operator will not be the is all end all bane to all infantry and vehicles.
AV vs vehicles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0R0DdqnR3M
skip to 5:08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnJpZkzxWKY
this just shows that helicopters do actually blow-up before hitting the ground sometimes
Problem: It pretty much doesn't do much and has crappy range.
solution: keep the range the same, or even reduce by 10%, BUT increase the damage by 20% for swarms, 10% for AV nades, and 5% for forge guns.
Because AV has limited range (as handheld AV in realife) it should be potent enough to disable, vehicles (as in RL). For the sake of balance one guy with AV shouldnt be able by himself to kill several vehicles. But, in numbers, Av in its range should be potent. Proto AV shouldn't be the only Av capable of taking out a tank.
Suggestions? comments?
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça
I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
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darkiller240
WarRavens Auxiliaries
260
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Posted - 2014.01.10 23:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
while i do agree this tanks being impossible to kill by other vehicles but a really simple solution is to reduce the health on tanks.
Also the way to prevent dropships from killing everyone, hitting it with anything will make it dance in the air, kinda funny really but try aiming wile a swarmer is hitting you, good luck
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1303
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Posted - 2014.01.11 18:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
anymore comments/ I really think something should be done. I think that only a little bit of a push is nessesary to make true vehicluar balance possible.
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça
I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
|
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
773
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 18:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
i destroy tanks in my ADS all the time, at least one a game. and thats with only ADV turrets, level 3 operation and no gunner....
in our squad ADS with 1 skilled gunner no tank survives... we dive into the redline for them and they explode in seconds.
the problem is theres not enough skilled dropship pilots due to the steep learning curve and redline rails detering new pilots |
jerrmy12 kahoalii
The Phoenix Federation
327
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 18:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:anymore comments/ I really think something should be done. I think that only a little bit of a push is nessesary to make true vehicluar balance possible.
Pythons need 200 more shield, incubus needs 200 more armor, and/or 15% base resistance
I use a tablet so beware of typos
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2190
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Posted - 2014.01.11 18:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Since AV is so weak, the only thing that can stop a tank is another tank.
My FG says otherwise
Intelligence is OP
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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1303
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Posted - 2014.01.11 18:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:i destroy tanks in my ADS all the time, at least one a game. and thats with only ADV turrets, level 3 operation and no gunner....
in our squad ADS with 1 skilled gunner no tank survives... we dive into the redline for them and they explode in seconds.
the problem is theres not enough skilled dropship pilots due to the steep learning curve and redline rails detering new pilots
Here is my point. Its not exactly dDS skill but mainly, no aerial cover, there are no tall structures or high hills for DS to protect themselves against Rails, and other types of turrets. DS are still easy to take down.
But, the OOffensive capabilities of a dropship is what Im looking at. they should be more effective at taking out tanks.
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça
I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
|
D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1303
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 18:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Since AV is so weak, the only thing that can stop a tank is another tank.
My FG says otherwise
of course I did cover this in the OP. Proto forge gun with 2 complex damage mods, proficiency 5, vs militia tank doesn't count
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça
I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
|
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2190
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Posted - 2014.01.11 18:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Since AV is so weak, the only thing that can stop a tank is another tank.
My FG says otherwise of course I did cover this in the OP. Proto forge gun with 2 complex damage mods, proficiency 5, vs militia tank doesn't count
Does gunlogi and madrugars count?
I only have prof 3 tho, woe is me
Intelligence is OP
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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1305
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 18:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:D legendary hero wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Since AV is so weak, the only thing that can stop a tank is another tank.
My FG says otherwise of course I did cover this in the OP. Proto forge gun with 2 complex damage mods, proficiency 5, vs militia tank doesn't count Does gunlogi and madrugars count? I only have prof 3 tho, woe is me
I'd love to beleive you, but im pretty sure that isnt the case. especially since, I ran proto forguns, with 2 complex at proficiency 5. The only time your taking out a madrugar or gunloggi with a FG is if another tank was already shooting it... which is my point.
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça
I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
774
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Posted - 2014.01.11 19:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:i destroy tanks in my ADS all the time, at least one a game. and thats with only ADV turrets, level 3 operation and no gunner....
in our squad ADS with 1 skilled gunner no tank survives... we dive into the redline for them and they explode in seconds.
the problem is theres not enough skilled dropship pilots due to the steep learning curve and redline rails detering new pilots Here is my point. Its not exactly dDS skill but mainly, no aerial cover, there are no tall structures or high hills for DS to protect themselves against Rails, and other types of turrets. DS are still easy to take down. But, the OOffensive capabilities of a dropship is what Im looking at. they should be more effective at taking out tanks.
Backflips are usually the only cover i need, evasive flying is an OK substatute as long as you can fly low and fast and know how not to fly in strait lines.
its a VERY steep learning curve and unfortunatly rails and forges end most new pilots carreers before they really start.
although i have to say being a dropship gunner for an experianced pilot is probably the best way to start as it eliminates alot of the guesswork involved in starting out. you learn to shoot at high speeds, you get to see how to evade shots and where good cover is, the pilots tend to pass down their favorite manuvers and tricks.
its definatly the only role in dust that almost requires an apprenticeship program to reach the top :P |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
9898
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Posted - 2014.01.11 19:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dropships can't kill tanks?
Assault Dropship Montage
Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
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Justice Darling
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
21
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Posted - 2014.01.11 21:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Since AV is so weak, the only thing that can stop a tank is another tank.
My FG says otherwise
The more simple thing to do is up the fire power on AV by 1000 that should put a stop to the spam of tanks.
Missiles right now now 220.00 with a 19.00 splash no matter how much SP you put into swarm the most you get is one extra missile bring up to 6 missiles doing 220.0 if they hit just cuss they come at target don't really mean they are smart missiles if they was smart they wouldn't hit the ground or buildings before impact.
Upping the fire power of these missiles to around 600.00 with a 250 splash should fix most of the issues and tank spams, sorry if anyone don't like this thought we are playing a FPS not world of tanks or WOT just saying! |
D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1333
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 16:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
DS need something.
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça
I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
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Charlotte O'Dell
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
1729
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 16:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
OMG no. You are so wrong. If there was no redline available, and a drop ship faced off v a tail tank, the D's would win every time because all it has to do is fly high on the way to the tank, then drop above it and the tank cannot hit it. To balance, redline needs to be removed completely.
Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
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darkiller240
WarRavens Auxiliaries
League of Infamy
294
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Posted - 2014.01.22 16:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Charlotte O'Dell wrote:OMG no. You are so wrong. If there was no redline available, and a drop ship faced off v a tail tank, the D's would win every time because all it has to do is fly high on the way to the tank, then drop above it and the tank cannot hit it. To balance, redline needs to be removed completely.
Here's one boys, a redline noob, GET HIM
have you ever thought about going under buildings?
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
Omega Elite Mercs INC.
72
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Posted - 2014.01.22 17:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
DS and ADS do not need any more power. I don't have too much experience fighting tiered out tanks, but I have handled std and adv by myself. A key thing to DS or ADS is timing, a tank without support will get a beating, and may even lose it. But the reason why I feel the power we have is good is because of our mobility. The sky is the limit, we can reach a height and velocity that make it very unlikely to get shot down easily. We can pounce anywhere on the map in a moments notice, no other vehicle has such an instant presence ( favorite moments are when my squad lead issues an attack marker on a sniper! )
If our power increases we will rely less on teammates for help. An advantage for relying on and protecting your friendly tanks and AVers on the field is that they can can destroy turrets--thy insatiable enemy. Most enemy tanks run when getting hit by a DS, because sustained fire is lethal, and that I feel that mechanic is balance.
However, our survivability is an issue. I don't think I would care half as much if I made decent isk when piloting. As long as I can profitably fly and play the game and not just be an aerial tourist, I don't care how many ships I lose. I just want to fly.
FAME
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
Omega Elite Mercs INC.
72
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Posted - 2014.01.22 17:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
Charlotte O'Dell wrote:OMG no. You are so wrong. If there was no redline available, and a drop ship faced off v a tail tank, the D's would win every time because all it has to do is fly high on the way to the tank, then drop above it and the tank cannot hit it. To balance, redline needs to be removed completely.
Or maybe that tanks are not thyne almighty master and may require a forge gun man in the squad to provide support against aerial units. Makes sense to me. And in fact a tanker with a ride along forge can be very intimidating.
FAME
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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1337
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Posted - 2014.01.22 17:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:DS and ADS do not need any more power. I don't have too much experience fighting tiered out tanks, but I have handled std and adv by myself. A key thing to DS or ADS is timing, a tank without support will get a beating, and may even lose it. But the reason why I feel the power we have is good is because of our mobility. The sky is the limit, we can reach a height and velocity that make it very unlikely to get shot down easily. We can pounce anywhere on the map in a moments notice, no other vehicle has such an instant presence ( favorite moments are when my squad lead issues an attack marker on a sniper! )
If our power increases we will rely less on teammates for help. An advantage for relying on and protecting your friendly tanks and AVers on the field is that they can can destroy turrets--thy insatiable enemy. Most enemy tanks run when getting hit by a DS, because sustained fire is lethal, and that I feel that mechanic is balance.
However, our survivability is an issue. I don't think I would care half as much if I made decent isk when piloting. As long as I can profitably fly and play the game and not just be an aerial tourist, I don't care how many ships I lose. I just want to fly.
I think more powerful dropships can make a difference in the game in a positive way. espcially since we can still be downed pretty easy.
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça
I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
Omega Elite Mercs INC.
72
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 17:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:DS and ADS do not need any more power. I don't have too much experience fighting tiered out tanks, but I have handled std and adv by myself. A key thing to DS or ADS is timing, a tank without support will get a beating, and may even lose it. But the reason why I feel the power we have is good is because of our mobility. The sky is the limit, we can reach a height and velocity that make it very unlikely to get shot down easily. We can pounce anywhere on the map in a moments notice, no other vehicle has such an instant presence ( favorite moments are when my squad lead issues an attack marker on a sniper! )
If our power increases we will rely less on teammates for help. An advantage for relying on and protecting your friendly tanks and AVers on the field is that they can can destroy turrets--thy insatiable enemy. Most enemy tanks run when getting hit by a DS, because sustained fire is lethal, and that I feel that mechanic is balance.
However, our survivability is an issue. I don't think I would care half as much if I made decent isk when piloting. As long as I can profitably fly and play the game and not just be an aerial tourist, I don't care how many ships I lose. I just want to fly. I think more powerful dropships can make a difference in the game in a positive way. espcially since we can still be downed pretty easy.
Hmm, I don't know though. The issue is when there are already three enemy ADS in the sky and atleast one tank all on the same side. More stomping could occur and may only complicate the player experience in general as many a proto have lost their iskies to my MLT missiles.
FAME
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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1338
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Posted - 2014.01.22 17:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:D legendary hero wrote:Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:DS and ADS do not need any more power. I don't have too much experience fighting tiered out tanks, but I have handled std and adv by myself. A key thing to DS or ADS is timing, a tank without support will get a beating, and may even lose it. But the reason why I feel the power we have is good is because of our mobility. The sky is the limit, we can reach a height and velocity that make it very unlikely to get shot down easily. We can pounce anywhere on the map in a moments notice, no other vehicle has such an instant presence ( favorite moments are when my squad lead issues an attack marker on a sniper! )
If our power increases we will rely less on teammates for help. An advantage for relying on and protecting your friendly tanks and AVers on the field is that they can can destroy turrets--thy insatiable enemy. Most enemy tanks run when getting hit by a DS, because sustained fire is lethal, and that I feel that mechanic is balance.
However, our survivability is an issue. I don't think I would care half as much if I made decent isk when piloting. As long as I can profitably fly and play the game and not just be an aerial tourist, I don't care how many ships I lose. I just want to fly. I think more powerful dropships can make a difference in the game in a positive way. espcially since we can still be downed pretty easy. Hmm, I don't know though. The issue is when there are already three enemy ADS in the sky and atleast one tank all on the same side. More stomping could occur and may only complicate the player experience in general as many a proto have lost their iskies to my MLT missiles.
As long as their are red line turrets forges and swarms DS will never sstomp
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça
I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
Omega Elite Mercs INC.
72
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Posted - 2014.01.22 17:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:D legendary hero wrote:Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:DS and ADS do not need any more power. I don't have too much experience fighting tiered out tanks, but I have handled std and adv by myself. A key thing to DS or ADS is timing, a tank without support will get a beating, and may even lose it. But the reason why I feel the power we have is good is because of our mobility. The sky is the limit, we can reach a height and velocity that make it very unlikely to get shot down easily. We can pounce anywhere on the map in a moments notice, no other vehicle has such an instant presence ( favorite moments are when my squad lead issues an attack marker on a sniper! )
If our power increases we will rely less on teammates for help. An advantage for relying on and protecting your friendly tanks and AVers on the field is that they can can destroy turrets--thy insatiable enemy. Most enemy tanks run when getting hit by a DS, because sustained fire is lethal, and that I feel that mechanic is balance.
However, our survivability is an issue. I don't think I would care half as much if I made decent isk when piloting. As long as I can profitably fly and play the game and not just be an aerial tourist, I don't care how many ships I lose. I just want to fly. I think more powerful dropships can make a difference in the game in a positive way. espcially since we can still be downed pretty easy. Hmm, I don't know though. The issue is when there are already three enemy ADS in the sky and atleast one tank all on the same side. More stomping could occur and may only complicate the player experience in general as many a proto have lost their iskies to my MLT missiles. As long as their are red line turrets forges and swarms DS will never sstomp
I had a few games in a row the other day where 3 1st Airborne pilots and a few tankers just wiped us in ambush. We would get corralled in a building and have nowhere else to spawn. I agree that it doesn't happen too often, but by increasing the power I would think that it's occurrence could increase. However, from your POV an increase in power could mean that a skilled pilot alone could prevent a stomp like that by having the strength to fight the number of mechanized units.
FAME
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
840
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Posted - 2014.01.22 18:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Tanks > Dropships > AV working as intended |
Benjamin Ciscko
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1313
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Posted - 2014.01.22 18:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
It's not like you can hover over me and hit me repeatedly without me being able to shoot back and still do 100+ damage to shields with a hardener. You complain about redline rail snipers is there really any other way to do it without having a DS hover over you and kill you. For TvDS Proto or nothing!
Caldari Tanker/Minmatar Assault
Forum warrior lvl 1
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
Omega Elite Mercs INC.
72
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Posted - 2014.01.22 18:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:It's not like you can hover over me and hit me repeatedly without me being able to shoot back and still do 100+ damage to shields with a hardener. You complain about redline rail snipers is there really any other way to do it without having a DS hover over you and kill you. For TvDS Proto or nothing!
If you are the only tank on the map, with no AV support, and are easily visible with no overhead cover or structures to put between you and the DS or to cause the DS to have difficulty navigating, then yes you can expect him to hover above. If you work with a tank squad, having at least two HAVs a decent distance away from each will allow one of you to hit the low flying DS on attack patterns. The DS will not be able to sustain fire with one tank covering another, that is a fact.
So go make some friends and think creatively. The redline only acts as a deterrent for clever tactics.
FAME
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