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1.8 Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calculations

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Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1391	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:43:00 - [1] - Quote SCOPE: I was sitting at lunch the other day and decided I would do some simple calcs on the Sentinel bonuses that popped up on the Sisi server. For those of you who have not seen the data mine information yet, Aeon Amadi was kind enough to post it here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134173 The Sentinel Bonus gives resistances to certain damage types based off the race of the suit. For a review of damage types please look at this DevBlog: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/11/weapons-of-uprising-1.7/ I will attempt to determine what damage type is best for dealing with each Sentinel if these bonuses and values do indeed make it into 1.8 ASSUMPTIONS: -- Sentinel Skill assumed to be at Level V -- GÇ£Blast DamageGÇ¥ equates to GÇ£Explosive DamageGÇ¥ -- The Minmatar Bonus has a typo and should be GÇ£2% Armor Resistance to Hybrid-Rail DamageGÇ¥ instead of GÇ£Hybrid-Blaster DamageGÇ¥. I believe that this is a typo because the written bonus does not follow the same pattern that all of the other suits follow. --Bonuses are Multiplicative to base Shield/Armor resist/weakness values. CALCULATION: Efficiency Rating = (Native Damage Multiplier * Skill Damage Reduction Multiplier)100% Example: Minmatar -15% Shield Damage from Laser Weapons (1.2 .85)100%=102% Caldari Sentinel Shields* Laser = 120% Hybrid Blasters = 96.5% Hybrid Rail = 90% Projectile = 85.5% Explosive = 60% Armor Laser = 80% Hybrid Blasters =90% Hybrid Rail = 110% Projectile = 110% Explosive = 90% Amarr Sentinel Shields Laser = 120% Hybrid Blasters = 99% Hybrid Rail = 90% Projectile = 95% Explosive = 60% Armor Laser = 80% Hybrid Blasters =90% Hybrid Rail = 110% Projectile =93.5% Explosive = 90% Gallente Sentinel Shields Laser = 120% Hybrid Blasters = 110% Hybrid Rail = 90% Projectile = 95% Explosive = 60% Armor Laser = 72% Hybrid Blasters =90% Hybrid Rail = 99% Projectile = 110% Explosive = 90% Minmatar Sentinel Shields Laser = 102% Hybrid Blasters = 110% Hybrid Rail = 90% Projectile = 95% Explosive = 60% Armor Laser = 80% Hybrid Blasters =90% Hybrid Rail = 99% Projectile = 110% Explosive = 90% ANALYSIS: Caldari With a massive pool of shield HP, explosive weapons will be essentially useless against these suit. Its shields resist nearly every damage type making it highly versatile against most weapons. However with no additional resistance against EM Damage, Laser weapons and Flux grenades will make short work of these Sentinels. Amarr The Amarr Sentinel is effectively a hybrid tank due to its equal pools of Shield and Armor, but it does have more focus on armor when it comes to modules. Because of this, Hybrid Rail weapons will be the best choice to take these guys down, due to the fact that they will still receive 110% efficiency against the Amarr Sentinel's armor. Gallente The Sentinel's natural resistance to explosive weapons is the biggest asset for the Gallente Sentinel. On top of that, Hybrid Rail and Laser weapons will have significantly reduced effectiveness. Projectile weapons are the best choice when fighting Gallente Sentinels. Minmatar The Minmatar Sentinel has a very even balance of resistances. It is neither highly resistant or highly weak to any particular damage type. This allows it to shield or armor tank with few downsides making them highly unpredictable. Armor Tanked Minmatar Sentinels should taken out with Projectile Weapons and Shield Tanked Minmatar Sentinels should be taken out with Hybrid Blaster weapons. CONCLUSION Damage specific resistances is an interesting addition to infantry combat and will add some new dynamics to combat. It is important to remember that sometimes your enemy will have the ideal fit to counter your. For example, if you try to fight a Gallente Sentinel with a Scrambler Rifle, you're gonna have a bad time. It doesn't mean that the Gallente Sentinel is overpowered, it just means that you had the wrong weapon for that particular confrontation. As a personal opinion, I think this is a step in the right direction for Sentinels, as Heavies have been needing some much needed love and the Sentinel suits actually have a purpose now. Also remember that this report assumes that the values and bonuses found on Sisi are correct; remember that they are subject to change. I hope you found this information useful ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1397	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:49:00 - [2] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: This is the start of where EHP becomes something more than just Shield + Armor Hps. Such a wonderful idea =) Now if we can get damage specific resistance amps for dropsuits, we'll really have some EVE-style fun with fitting. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1401	Posted - 2014.01.10 20:15:00 - [3] - Quote Aqil Aegivan wrote: Call me crazy but doesn't Caldari Sentinel get a weak shield bonus vs lasers? Nope. Sentinels get a 15% reduction to their direct factional enemy and a 10% resistance to their indirect factional enemy. Caldari and Amarr are allies so caldari do not receive a bonus resist against lasers. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1403	Posted - 2014.01.10 20:19:00 - [4] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Aqil Aegivan wrote: Call me crazy but doesn't Caldari Sentinel get a weak shield bonus vs lasers? Nope. Sentinels get a 15% reduction to their direct factional enemy and a 10% resistance to their indirect factional enemy. Caldari and Amarr are allies so caldari do not receive a bonus resist against lasers. Thats not what the linked post says. Well **, youre right. Not sure how I **** that one up. When I get back to my computer Ill pull up my spreadsheet and fix it. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1407	Posted - 2014.01.10 20:32:00 - [5] - Quote Free Beers wrote: ^^^ If anyone who is running for cpm1 is reading this thread this is what you need, not your bull** fake platform no one cares about Exactly. Im here to support the player base and the game, not looking for fame and glory. Is that not what what cpm should be all about? Now I just need to stop reading ** off my phone so I dont make stupid mistakes like misread the bonuses >_< ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1407	Posted - 2014.01.10 20:33:00 - [6] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: As Daxxis said, it seems the typo is on the Amarr one and not the Minmatar one, as Amarr has resistance against it's direct rival (Minmatar) and it's other rival (Gallente), while the other three has resistances against their direct rival and their ally. So Amarr should probably have resistance against Minmatar and Caldari. Yeah I messed up when I was reading and used the Amarr as the baseline when it was actually the black sheep. Fixes coming soon, sorry guys! ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1409	Posted - 2014.01.10 20:47:00 - [7] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: I don't see anything about the bonuses saying they are per level. Common sense does. No skills in EVE or Dust offer a flat bonus. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1411	Posted - 2014.01.10 20:53:00 - [8] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Common sense does. No skills in EVE or Dust offer a flat bonus. Did they fix the current sentinel skill? Also, assuming common sense from CCP is foolish. No sure what you're getting at, but if it makes you feel better I'll update the Assumption section to include that I'm assuming the bonus is per level. I find it highly unlikely that the Sentinel would be the only specialty dropsuit that does not have a scaling racial bonus, and thus I'm assuming it is a typo. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1411	Posted - 2014.01.10 21:16:00 - [9] - Quote Aqil Aegivan wrote: Aqil Aegivan wrote: Flint Beastgood III wrote: Thanks for clearing that up, I had a feeling I was overlooking something. Well you're not wrong about there being something off in the way the resistances are structured and I'd really prefer to have the bonuses follow lore too. For the record, moving the Amarr small resist to Caldari Weapons makes almost as much sense as changing the Minmatar one, it's just that a shield bonus vs rails is worth less than a shield bonus vs plasma (CF. damage profiles). I was mostly responding to your original point about combating the damage type of your enemy's ally, the complication arises because there are two races with mixed bonuses and two races with double bonuses so the Caldari small resist against Amarr weapons and the Gallente small resist against Minmatar weapons is the only way to go without devaluing bonuses. For people discussing which bonus is a typo. Looking at it again you're correct. I think I was getting too caught up in racial differences instead of looking at the actual damage types. Caldari are Shields, They are weak to Blaster and Laser weapons, They get the big Gallente resist because they're enemies, and the small Amarr resist because they're weakest to laser. Gallente are Armor, They are weak to Rail and Projectile weapons, They get the big Caldari resist because they're enemies, and the small Minmatar resist because they're also weak to projectile. Amarr are Hybrid, emphasis on armor. They are weak to Projectile and Blaster, they get the big Minmatar resist for armor because they're enemies and projectile is strong vs armor, and Gallente for shields because shields are weak to Gallente (And I think they're trying to avoid resisting the race's own weapon type) Here is the issue, at this point we have 2 Gallente Resists, 2 Minmatar Resists, 1 Amarr Resist, and 1 Caldari Resist. So by this logic the Minmatar HAS to resist Amarr and Caldari, otherwise we have an imbalance of damage types because the Caldari would only be resisted by the Gallente Sentinel. If the Minmatar are truly supposed to be hybrid tanked, resisting both Amarr and Gallente would leave them very weak in terms of armor, so by that logic the Gallente resist should be Caldari. Another issue to consider is that Lasers do +20% to shields, but because explosives are already resisted, the best weapon to use against armor is either Rail or Projectile, but those only offer +10% to armor. However, Projectile does 5% more damage to shields than Rail does, making it superior overall. Therefor if the Minmatar are going to resist the significantly stronger Laser weapons, the Amarr should at the very least resist the slightly better Projectile over Rail. With all of that said I'm going to stick with my original conclusion that the Minmatar Sentinal has a Typo, and that they have big resist against Lasers for shields, and a small resist against Rail for armor. Amarr keep their big resist against Projectile on armor, and small resist against Blaster on shields. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1434	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:55:00 - [10] - Quote Scalesdini wrote: Quote: With all of that said I'm going to stick with my original conclusion that the Minmatar Sentinal has a Typo, and that they have big resist against Lasers for shields, and a small resist against Rail for armor. Amarr keep their big resist against Projectile on armor, and small resist against Blaster on shields. Sounds good. Makes me lean more towards the Winmatar heavy if that's indeed the case. It seems like that will be the most flexible, and with the ability to either shield or armor tank you're going to be harder to predict. They'll probably have the lowest HP, but the higher sprint speed will make for a unique playstyle for a Heavy. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1435	Posted - 2014.01.11 05:13:00 - [11] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I'm willing to bet money the numbers are incorrect in reference to explosive weapons. Replace "blast" with "splash" for the correct values. I believe that this will apply to flaylocks, mass drivers, remote explosives and forge splash. Could very well be true, would actually work better if it were to resist flux grenades as well. I guess the difference being that direct damage would not be reduced, which I'd fully support. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1445	Posted - 2014.01.11 22:13:00 - [12] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: I always like posts that include math. My new favorite suit, the Gallente Sentinel, seems to be the only suit that has every damage type below 100% against its main tank. I figured that was worth mentioning. It is something I noticed, and now with the buff to repair tools and the proposed bonus to Minmatar Logistics, I think the Gallente Heavy + Minmatar Logistics will be very very powerful. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1465	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:31:00 - [13] - Quote hgghyujh wrote: blast dmg does not == explosive dmg. Rail, forge and PLC all have splash all without explosive dmg, I would assume thats what blast means In which case it would also include basically explosives aside from the occasional direct damage from mass drivers and flaylocks. I'll update the original post with this information. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1623	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:26:00 - [14] - Quote Updated with correct, Dev Released skills for Sentinels. Also added link in first post to the Effective HP Values of the new Sentinels. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1630	Posted - 2014.01.20 21:20:00 - [15] - Quote Initially the post was based off the sisi data but the devs posted updated information on the forums which was slightly different from the sisi data. I updated this post to reflect the updated info. 1.8 Sentinels Damage Efficiency Effective HP
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1633	Posted - 2014.01.20 21:28:00 - [16] - Quote Check out the effective hp thread I put up as well, that one takes this data into accound and give you effective base hp values against each weapon type. 1.8 Sentinels Damage Efficiency Effective HP
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1653	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:10:00 - [17] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: Great post Now what is the difference in TTk per suit based on a prorto combat rifle? My guess 1 maybe one and a half seconds? These differences will matter much more once we get the ttk balnced until then Well base EHP on suits is going to be identical, so TTK is entirely dependent on their fit 1.8 Sentinels Damage Efficiency Effective HP

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