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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
6338
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Posted - 2014.01.09 19:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
...is unfounded.
There is no problem with cloaks in any FPS game so long as it is balanced. I can give at least several games that offers cloaks done right.
1. Halo
2. Kill Zone
3. Team Fortress 2
Also, don't forget that active scanners (if strong enough) will be able to reveal the position of the cloaked user if the cloaked user doesn't have a low-enough profile. This means that only the Gallente Scout Gk.0 (prototype) will be the only one to be able to avoid even the Duvolle Focused Active Scanner that has a 15dB scan resolution. But that suit only offers one high-slot and is primarily made for intel gathering and recon so using this as a high-damage sniper is out of the question. The Minmatar Scout Mk.0 is built for assassinations but doesn't take full advantage of the profile dampening and thus will be vulnerable to the Duvolle Scanner.
There is also the fact that cloaking will be an equipment item which means... NO CLOAKED HEAVIES WITH HMGS because heavies can't fit equipment.
Again, as long as the cloak is done right there is no problem with it.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
6341
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 19:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:There is a problem of what is right.
We can look at a large number of games that have done cloaks where they are either the worst or or over best feature of the multiplayer experience to where it becomes a rather un fun game for those who do not cloak.
Crysis, Planetside 2, Killzone and others come to mind.
Halo 3 did it right. But ever since Halo 4 came out, the cloak has become UNDERpowered since the introduction of the Promethean Vision.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
6344
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 19:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:There is a problem of what is right.
We can look at a large number of games that have done cloaks where they are either the worst or or over best feature of the multiplayer experience to where it becomes a rather un fun game for those who do not cloak.
Crysis, Planetside 2, Killzone and others come to mind. Halo 3 did it right. But ever since Halo 4 came out, the cloak has become UNDERpowered since the introduction of the Promethean Vision. Which is the other half of what I can see going wrong with this cloaking with the active scanner.
There is a difference between the Active Scanner and the Promethean Vision. There is one way to avoid the scanner. There is no way to avoid the Promethean Vision.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
6344
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 19:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Assault Chileanme wrote:Wouldn't a pretty a pretty simple way to allow for high mobility without breaking the game just be to make cloaked suits invisible to scanners but require them to keep the equipment out to stay cloaked?
This would allow for stealthy movements but would not directly contribute to combat capabilities.
This looks like a good idea.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
6352
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 21:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Minmatar Citizen 3173120 wrote:Dust was suppose to be different. Now its NO DIFFERENT then any other game. This cloak will finish off dust. Wait and see.
Yet another anti-cloak comment. You're assumption that the cloak will finish DUST is baseless.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
6352
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 21:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:mollerz wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
So the biggest question is
Why?
Why Cloaks?
I see cloaks as a mobility tool, to allow players to cross dangerous and highly visible areas of the game, this game has quite a few open places.
I do not want to see cloaks utilized as a weapon or a means of 'invincibility' that other games have made it to be at times.
That is all easily rectified by playing a scout, IWS. How you see it is not from a scouts perspective. Your perspective makes it utilitarian... which is great! But That would be a normal cloak. A Covert Ops Cloak is what we are getting, and that's what scouts need. I have a shotty minnie scout for urban fighting. I would make a urban gal scout but I can't get the stealth high enough to dodge the scans showing up lately, My cal assault is nearly just as stealthy at the moment. I was banned from using cloaks, overshields, and assault rifles in halo lan parties.
In what, halo 3?
Nobody banned me from using those things in LAN parties.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
6361
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 03:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Rusty Shallows wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:All this hate towards cloaks is... ... expected. CCP has a terrible track recorded when it comes to Dust 514. We were told the delays in 1.7 were so they could get it right and look where that landed us, a bunch of crazy nerfs and buffing. Even with extra time and a wealth of information on the forums we got the current result. mollerz wrote:
snip
A Covert Ops Cloak is what we are getting, and that's what scouts need.
Someone may have just hit pay dirt! A standard cloak and a cov-ops one, like in Eve.
Brought that up earlier in a separate loooong before this debate even started.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1648383#post1648383
Quote:
Actually, I like the idea of the cloak being something you can hold in your hand while running cloaked but then that will depend on how it's implemented. Do I have to keep it in my hand in order for the cloak to remain active or can I just swap to a weapon and keep the cloak active so long as I don't do any attacks such detonating REs or stabbing with the nova knives? I would very much prefer the latter if it's possible.
But yeah, here are my proposed stats for the cloak:
Standard Cloak (can fit on all suit classes and tiers)
CPU: 350
PG: 80
Cooldown Upon Deactivation: 30 Seconds
Cloak Stability Rating while Moving: 4 (moderate-high shimmer)
Cloak Stability Rating while Sprinting: 2 (high shimmer)
Bonuses when fitted on Scout: -99% reduction on CPU/PG usage and a +3 Cloak Stability Rating for moving and sprinting.
Covert Ops Cloak (can only be fitted on specialty Covert Ops Scout or Prototype Scout)
CPU: 350
PG: 80
Cooldown: 15 seconds
Cloak Stability Rating while Moving: 10 (no shimmer)
Cloak Stability Rating while Sprinting: 8 (very low shimmer)
Bonus when fitted on Prototype Scout: -99% reduction on CPU/PG usage
Bonus when fitted on Covert Ops Specialty Scout: -99% reduction on CPU/PG usage with -25% reduction to cooldown timer
Skill Prerequisite for Standard Cloak:
Cloaking Equipment Skill Book Level 1 ( -5% reduction to cooldown timer per level )
Skill Prerequisites for Covert Ops Cloak:
Cloaking Equipment Skill Book Level 5 ( -5% reduction to cooldown timer per level )
Cloaking Equipment Proficiency Skill Book Level 1 ( -3% reduction to cooldown timer per level )
What do you guys think?
EDIT:
I forgot to mention that in order to train into the Covert Ops scout, you should have to train up at least one of the racial scouts up to prototype level first as a prerequisite.
Note: Keep in mind that this was last month before I had second thoughts on how cloak should operate. Nowadays I feel that it's better to have the cloaking trigger held in order to keep the cloak rather than swap to a weapon while cloaked. There is a reason for this change of mind.
It's better to have the cloak pre-nerfed rather than have it overnerfed later on down the road. This way, the cloak won't feel OP but it won't feel useless either. This is my way of trying to protect an aspect of the game that I feel passionate about much like how I felt about the Nova Knives. You don't hear anyone crying "nerf the knives" because the knives came pre-nerfed and thus many people regarded them as a balanced weapon that just need a slight tweak such as allowing sprints while charging. If knives came with all the bells-n-whistles from the start, then it was likely that everyone would call out "nerf" and then the weapon will truly become useless with an overnerf later on down the road.
This is what I'm trying to accomplish with the cloak now. If it comes in pre-nerfed, very few people will ever complain about it and then it will be safe from the nerf bat. Kain Spero, Heinrich, me, and many others are trying to do you all a solid by going down the pre-nerf route. It's safer for the cloak so that it won't be completely useless due to unwarranted fear of the cloak.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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