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Aero Yassavi
Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire
4554
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Posted - 2014.01.09 07:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
My friend Maikyl Metsar pointed this out to me awhile ago. He is suggesting that the Assault ROF bonus will make the Laser Rifle really good. We don't usually think of the Laser Rifle in terms of ROF, but there is a numerical value to the ammo of a Laser Rifle and it depletes at a specific rate, a ROF, with each bit of that value applying damage to the target.
All Laser Rifles have a 100 size clip. On the standard laser rifle, it overheats at 60 of these units. Since heat build-up is based on time and not "shots" fired, that means the standard laser rifle with a 25% ROF bonus will overheat after firing 75. And all of this is applied over the same time span. So, essentially, the laser rifle would be getting a 25% straight up damage buff. Can you imagine that at the top end of the laser rifle damage curve? The laser rifle may retake its seat at the throne, just maybe.
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
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Ryder Azorria
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
798
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Posted - 2014.01.09 08:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
How'd you come to the conclusion that overheat is based on time? Seems silly to use a different mechanic than every other gun that has it.
Hmmm... If each unit of charge does count as a single shot in the eyes of the system then the LR will probably overheat faster (time wise, still after the same number of 'shots') but it will reach it's max damage faster and receive the expected 11% damage boost that the 10% RoF bonus would normally confer.
So overheating faster but doing more damage after less time - could be worse.
EDIT: Derp, the theoretical assault bonus is 2% RoF per level, not 5%. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
1472
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Posted - 2014.01.09 08:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:How'd you come to the conclusion that overheat is based on time? Seems silly to use a different mechanic than every other gun that has it.
Hmmm... If each unit of charge does count as a single shot in the eyes of the system then the LR will probably overheat faster (time wise, still after the same number of 'shots') but it will reach it's max damage faster and receive the expected 11% damage boost that the 10% RoF bonus would normally confer.
So overheating faster but doing more damage after less time - could be worse.
EDIT: Derp, the theoretical assault bonus is 2% RoF per level, not 5%.
overheat on laser and scrams are based on # of seconds firing, not shots used.
So he is right that the rate of fire bonus could bring up the Laser rifle from 60 shots before overheat to 75 |
Aero Yassavi
Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire
4555
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Posted - 2014.01.09 08:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yes, as Breakin Stuff has said, both the scrambler rifle and laser rifle work on a heat build up per second system. Go look at the stat page for it in the game. This means that the laser rifle will over heat after the same amount of time, but it will fire more units of charge during that time frame.
So again, a standard laser rifle will go from firing 60 units of charge before overheating to 75 units of charge before overheating, all in the same time span.
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
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Marad''er
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
74
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Posted - 2014.01.09 08:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
I guess it's a buff..
However I'd still bet on the rail rifles and scramblers to own it at its own optimal
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
2816
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Posted - 2014.01.09 08:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Ryder Azorria wrote:How'd you come to the conclusion that overheat is based on time? Seems silly to use a different mechanic than every other gun that has it.
Hmmm... If each unit of charge does count as a single shot in the eyes of the system then the LR will probably overheat faster (time wise, still after the same number of 'shots') but it will reach it's max damage faster and receive the expected 11% damage boost that the 10% RoF bonus would normally confer.
So overheating faster but doing more damage after less time - could be worse.
EDIT: Derp, the theoretical assault bonus is 2% RoF per level, not 5%. overheat on laser and scrams are based on # of seconds firing, not shots used. So he is right that the rate of fire bonus could bring up the Laser rifle from 60 shots before overheat to 75
I highly doubt the scrambler overheats based on length of time firing. What is the cut-off point? Does it start to cooldown 0.5 seconds after a shot?
It's likely the laser will simply reach its oveheat point of 60 rounds sooner.
No.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
1472
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Posted - 2014.01.09 08:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Ryder Azorria wrote:How'd you come to the conclusion that overheat is based on time? Seems silly to use a different mechanic than every other gun that has it.
Hmmm... If each unit of charge does count as a single shot in the eyes of the system then the LR will probably overheat faster (time wise, still after the same number of 'shots') but it will reach it's max damage faster and receive the expected 11% damage boost that the 10% RoF bonus would normally confer.
So overheating faster but doing more damage after less time - could be worse.
EDIT: Derp, the theoretical assault bonus is 2% RoF per level, not 5%. overheat on laser and scrams are based on # of seconds firing, not shots used. So he is right that the rate of fire bonus could bring up the Laser rifle from 60 shots before overheat to 75 I highly doubt the scrambler overheats based on length of time firing. What is the cut-off point? Does it start to cooldown 0.5 seconds after a shot? It's likely the laser will simply reach its oveheat point of 60 rounds sooner.
Scrambler rifle, if you fire one round per second, we'll say it overheats in three seconds, or three shots. Since it uses an identical overheat to the laser rifle it means it doesn't matter if you fire 3 shots per second or 13. You will overheat uniformly after three seconds of fire.
We tested this rather thoroughly. the numbers I use are asspulls, but the fact that it overheats based on # of seconds of triggerpull rather than shots fired is not an asspull. It's why so many people are convinced that the scram is OP. |
Aero Yassavi
Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire
4555
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Posted - 2014.01.09 08:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
I have also tested what Breaking Stuff is saying and can confirm I reached the same conclusion.
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
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Echoist
Fenrir's Wolves Zero-Day
106
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Posted - 2014.01.09 11:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Marad''er wrote:I guess it's a buff..
However I'd still bet on the rail rifles and scramblers to own it at its own optimal You know you would think that but i've been using my trusty laser lately and have gone against many many RR and SCR users and still have managed to kill them. I think it has something to do with a fear factor when using the laser, it has the effect of making people panic when fired upon that combined with the laser's ability to wipe out shields in less than a second. It causes them to jump around like jack rabbits and doing so they losea great amount of accuracy that normally they would need to fire at me
Noobasaures: "Rawr"
Laser Rifle Specialist, Rail Rifles... Lol fail
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Aero Yassavi
Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire
4565
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Posted - 2014.01.09 11:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Echoist wrote:Marad''er wrote:I guess it's a buff..
However I'd still bet on the rail rifles and scramblers to own it at its own optimal You know you would think that but i've been using my trusty laser lately and have gone against many many RR and SCR users and still have managed to kill them. I think it has something to do with a fear factor when using the laser, it has the effect of making people panic when fired upon that combined with the laser's ability to wipe out shields in less than a second. It causes them to jump around like jack rabbits and doing so they losea great amount of accuracy that normally they would need to fire at me The fear probably comes from the fact that the longer that beam is fired the more and more damage it does, and the longer you expose yourself the more you are risking being swiped by the laser rifle towards the end right before it overheats when it's damage output essentially makes it an extended light saber.
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1513
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Posted - 2014.01.09 11:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:My friend Maikyl Metsar pointed this out to me awhile ago. He is suggesting that the Assault ROF bonus will make the Laser Rifle really good. We don't usually think of the Laser Rifle in terms of ROF, but there is a numerical value to the ammo of a Laser Rifle and it depletes at a specific rate, a ROF, with each bit of that value applying damage to the target.
All Laser Rifles have a 100 size clip. On the standard laser rifle, it overheats at 60 of these units. Since heat build-up is based on time and not "shots" fired, that means the standard laser rifle with a 25% ROF bonus will overheat after firing 75. And all of this is applied over the same time span. So, essentially, the laser rifle would be getting a 25% straight up damage buff. Can you imagine that at the top end of the laser rifle damage curve? The laser rifle may retake its seat at the throne, just maybe.
2 x 5 = 10 so the bonus would be 10 not 25. Where are you getting 25 from? SiSi says a 2% rof buff per level. |
Aero Yassavi
Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire
4565
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 11:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:My friend Maikyl Metsar pointed this out to me awhile ago. He is suggesting that the Assault ROF bonus will make the Laser Rifle really good. We don't usually think of the Laser Rifle in terms of ROF, but there is a numerical value to the ammo of a Laser Rifle and it depletes at a specific rate, a ROF, with each bit of that value applying damage to the target.
All Laser Rifles have a 100 size clip. On the standard laser rifle, it overheats at 60 of these units. Since heat build-up is based on time and not "shots" fired, that means the standard laser rifle with a 25% ROF bonus will overheat after firing 75. And all of this is applied over the same time span. So, essentially, the laser rifle would be getting a 25% straight up damage buff. Can you imagine that at the top end of the laser rifle damage curve? The laser rifle may retake its seat at the throne, just maybe. 2 x 5 = 10 so the bonus would be 10 not 25. Where are you getting 25 from? SiSi says a 2% rof buff per level. Doh, I'm getting 25 from me being stupid and thinking it was 5% per level. My bad.
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1968
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Posted - 2014.01.09 12:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Same applies for scrambler rifle. And also, I'm wondering if it could mean faster charge rate as well. |
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
1853
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Posted - 2014.01.09 12:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
But won't the other weapons be getting the rate of fire buff too?
Can't wait to see how all of these changes work out in the real game though.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
1160
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Posted - 2014.01.09 13:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Same applies for scrambler rifle. And also, I'm wondering if it could mean faster charge rate as well.
No-one can hit the ScR cap without a modded controller anyway, so it's not a meaningful buff to ScR, considering what's being taken.
The LR buff is significant, though. Does anyone know whether the damage buildup would increase more rapidly? i.e. is the damage increase tied to shots fired? Because if so LOLWTFBBQ.
PRO tanker and proud.
Number of PRO-turret HAVs killed w/ my permahardened MLT Blaster Gunny - 2 (so far xD)
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