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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2035
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Posted - 2014.01.06 16:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
For full disclosure, Fox Gaden is not a Heavy. My Heavy is Crash Gaden. I am posting on Fox for consistency. The Heavies that I learned from are Damus Trifarn and Bears Beets.
HMG Heavy Starter Skill and Fitting Plan: This plan is simply a guideline. You can change the order that you skill into things based on your own priorities, especially if you already know what type of Heavy you want to become.
- Skill Amarr Basic Heavy Frame suit to 1.
- Setup your suit with an Armor Repair (start with militia until you skill Armor Repair up), unless you run with a Logi-Bro all the time. Put an Armor Plate on there too. You can drop the Armor Repair for a second Militia Armor Plate if you have someone who can rep you. Put Militia Shield Extenders in the high slot until you have the skills to fit at least an Enhanced Heavy Damage Upgrade (Advanced). Even if you normally run with a Logi-Bro, it is a good idea to have a fit with an Armor Repair you can switch to if your Logi-Bro canGÇÖt make it.
- Skill Weaponry to level 5, Heavy Weapon Operation to level 1, and Heavy Machine Gun Operation to level 1 to unlock the HMG.
- Skill up Armor Upgrades and Shield Upgrades to at least 4 to start. With both at 5 you will have 1200 health without modules.
- Skill HMG Operation until you can get an Assault HMG. You will want to use the Standard HMG in urban areas with plenty of cover, and the Assault HMG (less damage but more range) on open maps. Make a fit for each.
- Then skill Handheld Damage Upgrades (in the Weapon tree) to 3 so you can equip Enhanced Heavy Damage Upgrades.
- Now finish skilling HMG Operation to 5 and get HMG Proficiency to 3. Then get rapid reload to 3. (At Rapid Reload 5 it reduces your 8 second reload time to 6 seconds.)
- Push Handheld Damage Upgrades to 5 for the Complex Heavy Damage Upgrades.
- If you have not maxed your Shield and Armour upgrade skills, do so now.
- If you often run without a Logi, you will want to skill up your armor repair skill to equip a better armor repair. You may want to get it to Advanced earlier than this, but at this point you should be trying to get it to 5 for the Complex Armor repair.
- Skill up Engineering and Electronics as you need more Power Grid and CPU for fitting better modules.
Now a decision:
What sort of HMG Heavy do you want to be?
- Brick Tank Heavy: A seemingly unstoppable force, provided you have Logi-Bro support? - Assault Heavy: Sacrificing tank for independence? - Speed Heavy (Sports Turtle): Sacrificing tank for mobility?
See the description and a continuation of the Skill plan and Fitting for each in the posts below. I play Sports Turtle, but most heavies are Brick Tank. After a highly ranked Loti-Bro threw a fit over my fit, I also started working on a Brick Tank fit, for those times I am working with a good Logi-Bro.
Other Skills:
- At some point you may want to skill into Flux Grenades to easily clear equipment such as Remote Explosives and Drop Uplinks.
-The Amo capacity skill is helpful. You may want to pick it up at some point, but it is less important unless you find yourself running out of amo a lot.
-You might want to skill the SMG up a little, but you may end up dropping the sidearm from some fits to save PG and CPU, so only needed if you use it.
- Hacking Speed is not one you would normally think of, since the slow Heavy is likely to be the last one to the Objective, but if the terminal is being covered by a Sniper or you are trying a ninja hack at a hot Objective, the extra health of the Heavy Suit may allow you to complete the hack where a lesser suit would die before completion.
Other Suits:
If you are lucky the other 3 Heavy Suits will be out before you put too many points into your Dropsuit. Gallenty will likely be better for Brick Tank. Caldary, Minmitar and Amarr will be good for Assault Heavy. The Minmatar heavy should be the fastest, but I am not sure if it will have enough low slots for Kinetic Catalysers so if you like speed you may have to choose between the Minmitar and a suit with more low slots.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2035
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Posted - 2014.01.06 16:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Reserving 7 posts before I copy and past my newest guide.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2035
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Posted - 2014.01.06 16:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Reserving 7 posts before I copy and past my newest guide.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2035
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Posted - 2014.01.06 16:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Reserving 7 posts before I copy and past my newest guide.
I have the Jeopardy theme running through my head as I wait for the post timer to run out....
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2035
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Posted - 2014.01.06 16:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Reserving 7 posts before I copy and past my newest guide.
Can't post for another 39 seconds....
20 seconds...
8 seconds ..
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2035
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Posted - 2014.01.06 16:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Reserving 7 posts before I copy and past my newest guide.
Must be getting close to 7 now...
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2035
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Posted - 2014.01.06 16:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Reserved for future expansion of the Guide.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2053
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Posted - 2014.01.06 22:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
CaveCav wrote:Excellent work as always. Can I presume next step will be Forge Guns? It might be a while before I am ready to do a Forge Gun guide. I am only now getting to the point where I can hit what I am aiming at with it. Since I sort of sucked with it at first I had not skilled very far into it, so I can only use the Standard model. But it is on my skill plan for the near future, and I am starting to get the hang of it.
CaveCav wrote:Now questions (as always): 1) Did you work with the basic frame only or also with the Sentinel? In my experience I found that for a HMG Heavy build the Sentinel is better, the added tank is well worth, in my opinion, the reduced gank power. On the contrary using forges I found that the second Complex Heavy Damage Modifier was vital. I am not skilled into any suits. I use the Dren Sentinel BPO, which has no skill requirements. Although I salivate over all the low slots in the Advanced and Prototype suits, I donGÇÖt want to invest skill points in suits until I have all four races to choose from. Since BPOGÇÖs are hard to come by now, I wrote the guide with the assumption that the reader would not have access to a BPO suit.
CaveCav wrote:2) You didn't mention the Burst HMG. Why? The Burst is a Beast. It is interchangeable with the normal HMG. However it requires good timing. If you get into the rhythm you can anticipate when the damage will be applied, and move or adjust during the posses. However if you donGÇÖt have the timing down you will find yourself off target when firing and not firing when you are on target.
One of the interesting attributes of the Burst HMG is that due to the delayed Burst, a Burst will sometimes go off right after you die, before your body falls, making it quite common to kill the guy that killed you.
I may add a section describing the different varieties of HMG in more detail, along with the tactics for each.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2053
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Posted - 2014.01.06 22:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
J4yne C0bb wrote:In regards to modules, I think it's better to equip an energizer/recharger rather than an extender, especially after the HMG fix. Heavies already have the most natural HP of all suits (once Dropsuit Shield/Armor Upgrades is maxed to 5), so my philosophy is to maximize/strengthen what I already have, rather than adding more HP to the suit.
That is actually what I did. But someone pointed out to me that the recharger gives percentage increase, and in the case of the Heavy that percentage is multiplying the slowest shield regen of any suit, so he argued that you donGÇÖt get much out of it. In the end I recommended the Extender rather than the Recharger, but either would be better than a Militia or Standard Damage mods. Whatever you put in the high slots to start with will get replaced by Damage mods once you skill them up.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2061
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Posted - 2014.01.07 01:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
J4yne C0bb wrote:Interesting. I actually don't play with any damage mods at all, for the reasons cited above. My basic advanced Sentinel fitting is as follows:
High: Std Energizer
Low: Adv Shield Regulator
and depending on logi support: Adv Plates x 2 or 1 Adv plate and 1 advance rep mod
Both my HMG and Forge are at Prof 5, though, so I'd rather use the high slot as shield support, but YMMV I suppose. May have to try dam mods out sometime. My heavy is around 10 mil SP with little skilled into CPU/PG upgrades, for reference. I bet this fit would work really well on a Caldari Heavy, when we eventually get them. Damage mods were considered almost essential when the HMG was weak, but now that the HMG rate of fire has been increased and dispersion fixed, they may not be as needed. I have not heard of many Heavies choosing to go the shield tanking rout, but if it is working for you now I bet it will work even better when you get a suit designed for it.
I would classify your fit in the Assault Heavy category I think, as it relies on the shield recharge rather than extenders.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2072
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Posted - 2014.01.07 18:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
The Sentinel bonuses CCP is currently testing. These could change before they go live, but it gives us a good hint of where CCP is going with the Heavy Suit.
Quote:Amarr Sentinel Skill: Sentinel Suit Bonus: 5% resistance to blast damage per level Amarr Sentinel Bonus: 3% armor resistance to projectile weapons, 2% shield resistance to hybrid - blaster weapons.
Caldari Sentinel Skill: Sentinel Suit Bonus: 5% resistance to blast damage per level. Caldari Sentinel Bonus: 3% shield resistance to hybrid - blaster weapons, 2% shield resistance to laser weapons.
Gallente Sentinel Skill: Sentinel Skill: 5% resistance to blast damage per level. Gallente Sentinel Bonus: 3% armor resistance to hybrid - railgun weapons, 2% armor resistance to projectile weapons.
Minmatar Sentinel Skill: Sentinel Suit Bonus: 5% resistance to blast damage per level. Minmatar Sentinel Bonus: 3% shield resistance to laser weapons, 2% armor resistance to hybrid - blaster weapons. Basically, all Sentinel suits get 5% resistance to explosive damage per level, 3% resistance to their opposing factionGÇÖs damage, and 2% resistance to their opposing factionGÇÖs allyGÇÖs damage type.
I like that the Sentinal bonuses do not tie us into a specific weapon. Defensive bonuses are the way to go for the Sentinel suit in my opinion.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2102
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Posted - 2014.01.09 12:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:That all looks a hell of a lot better than the current Sentinel bonus of reducing weapon feedback damage.
In theory, resistance to blast damage would affect Forge Guns as well as obvious things like Grenades, REs and other splash damage. Right? The Forge Gun is a Hybrid - Railgun, so Gallente Sentinel gets 3% resist per level. I am guessing that the 2% hybrid - blaster resist bonus for Minmitar is a typo and will probably be hybrid - Railgun resists. These resists would be good against the Forge Gun, Rail Rifle, Sniper Rifle, and Rail Turret.
Despite being a Speed Heavy, I am seriously thinking about skilling up the Amarr Sentinel. I would not mind an extra 15% resistance to projectile damage, particularly when facing an HMG. The Amarr suit would be vulnerable to Rail Rifles though, so it is a trade off.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2170
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Posted - 2014.01.15 01:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote: I think the Amarr will be a slower Heavy, like it currently is. Only Speed Heavy suits I foresee are Caldari and Minmitar.
As a Speed Heavy I can tell you that I donGÇÖt mind going slow when I am shooting. I just want to be able to sprint fast. The Amarr Heavy will likely have more Low Slots than the Caldari or Minmatar Heavies.
On the other hand, the Minmatar heavy will have a higher base speed, so Kinetic Catalyzers will be modifying a larger number. You will be giving up a lot of health for this though.
I expect their will be two schools of thought on speed heavies. More Low Slots, or More Base Speed?
I am expecting to level the Amarr Heavy first, but I may also level either the Minmatar or Caldari heavy later.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2199
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Posted - 2014.01.17 16:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Added a section describing the HMG as well as its Assault and Burst variants.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2599
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Posted - 2014.02.23 11:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Fox, I feel I should point that the links about the types of Heavy fittings at the bottom of your first post are no longer working. Thanks for the catch Megaman Trigger. They were linking to the copy of the Guide on my Corp Forum, so they worked for me, but not for anyone outside of the Corp. So I had not noticed the issue. I have them fixed up now.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2680
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Posted - 2014.03.01 17:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Hey Fox, I was wondering if you had plans for doing a Forge Gun guide. I have a few points I'd be more than willing to share for the cause. I do not feel I have mastered the Forge Gun yet. I do have proto Forge Guns through. Once I feel I fully understand the tactics around Forge Gun usage I will likely write a guide.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2770
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Posted - 2014.03.06 14:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
I am starting to work on updating the guide for 1.8. - The Assault Heavy section has been updated. (Post 3)
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2844
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Posted - 2014.04.02 13:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
Fun fact: An Advanced Minmatar Sentinel with a Kin Cat and an Armor Repair sprints at exactly the same speed as an Amarr Sentinel with 2 Kin Cats and an Armor Repair.
The Minmatar Sentinel walks faster, while the Amarr Sentinel has more health.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3443
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Posted - 2014.05.22 13:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Minmitar Sentinel is a Speed fit naturally. I have played a Speed fit Amarr Sentinel since 1.3 on Crash Gaden, and I continue to play that fit on him. However, I skilled Minmitar Sentinel to 5 on Fox Gaden, and I find it plays very similarly to the Speed fit Amarr Sentinel. The Minmitar (I mostly play in Standard Suits) has less health and a slightly slower sprint speed (at Standard with an Armour Repair in the one low slot) but walks faster. At Advanced a Minmitar with 1 Kin Cat is the exact same sprint speed as an Amarr with 2 Kin Cats. At Proto the Minmitar would have a faster sprint speed.
Overall, I find that if you are used to playing a speed fit Sentinel, the Minmitar Sentinel actually works better than I expected. In situations where you can take advantage of your speed, including strafing while shooting, it does quite well. For assaulting a heavily defended target you might want a suit with more health though.
I have also skilled Fox Gaden to 4 in the Caldari Sentinel suit. I like it. It has more health than the Minmitar suit. I put Complex Shield Extenders on it. Has a total health of about 1200 HP. Try to avoid sustained fights. If you can duck behind cover every once in a while for long enough for your shields to recharge, then it works very well. Good when working with someone else in a leapfrog advance where one person engages the enemy until his health gets low and then takes cover while the other guy engages the enemy. Rinse and repeat so the enemy are under constant fire, but you each have a chance to recover.
Most people play Brick Tanked heavies, so most people will play Gallente or Amarr. If you like Speed Heavies or Assault Heavies, then the Minmitar and Caldari suits are quite good. I should note though that the Gallente and Amarr suits can be adapted to Speed and Assault roles with Kin Cat, or Armour Repair modules.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3556
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Posted - 2014.06.01 00:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
To remember the difference between Ferroscale and Reactive plates, remember that Reactive plates GÇ£ReactGÇ¥ to damage and heal themselves. While GÇ£ScaleGÇ¥ armor is lighter, but not as tough as regular GÇ£plateGÇ¥.
I understand the temptation to put a Regulator in the low, but personally I would not go without some sort of armor repair, because although the Caldari Sentinel is primarily a shield tank, it still has a large amount of armor.
I have not tried the Reactive Plate. I think it is worth a try, as it gives you a larger buffer, but I am not sure if I would be comfortable with the slow rep.
Armor Repair reps faster than the Reactive Plate, which means faster recovery, and they are buffing Armor Repair in Hotfix Alpha.
I just tonight replaced a Shield Extender in my high slot on my Caldari Sentinel with an Energizer. I suspect it is the better way to go, but I am not done testing it yet.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3710
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Posted - 2014.06.16 10:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
My new favorite fit:
Advanced Amarr Sentinel 2x Complex Armor Repair Complex Plate Complex Heavy Damage Modifier GÇÿSteelmineGÇÖ Boundless HMG, SMG, Flux Grenade.
The fit I have mostly been running for the last two weeks:
Standard Sentinel (Dren BPO) 2x Militia Armor Repair Militia Shield Extender HMG, Militia SMG, Flux Grenade.
The second suit costs 3810 ISK (6810 ISK without the BPO). I managed to go 29/11 in the cheap suit last night in a Domination match. I have since switched the Militia Shield Extender out for a Militia Damage Modifier (Bumps the price up to 3930 ISK).
If you train in the cheap suit, you will absolutely wreck when you switch to the expensive version. Of course I did not start running the cheap suit for training. I started running it because I was broke.
These fits are what I refer to as Assault Sentinel fits. That is, they play like a Caldari Sentinel, having to take cover part way through the fight to regenerate health before reengaging.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3855
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Posted - 2014.07.06 21:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
That looks like a good fit Trigger. I only have 2 or 3 matches in a Month where i would die enough to loose ISK with a suit like that. It looks like a money maker, and still quite effective if played well.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3952
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Posted - 2014.07.22 10:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:So by now we've seen the proposed balances to the Sentinels and the HMG. What's everyone's thoughts? I posted my thoughts here.
Fox Gaden wrote:As a HMG specialist ( Read my Guide) I support these changes overall. Heat Buildup: I am an experienced HMG user and I donGÇÖt like wasting bullets. Therefor I normally shoot in bursts, and only when I am on target. So I donGÇÖt think I will be effected a great deal from these changes. However, the spray and prey crowd who are always calling for a Nano Hive because they have burned through 1000 rounds, will probably have more trouble with the heat build up. It will make the HMG require more skill to use effectively, which will reduce the number of people using it as easy mode. That is a good thing. Currently I only overheat my Standard HMG when trying to kill a LAV (can we get the +25% damage to vehicles to balance this heat buildup nerf?) and when firing into a crowd of 4 or 5 people huddled together (fish in a barrel) where I can change targets while continuing to fire every time I get a kill without wasting bullets. With the increased heat buildup those overheat situations will happen more often, but they can be managed. Normalizing ranges across all tiers: I am all for this. Sometimes I use Standard HMG and sometimes I use Proto HMG. It will be a lot easier if their range profile is consistent. I wonGÇÖt have muscle memory working against me. Burst HMG changes: These sound interesting. However too many variables are changing for me to comment before testing. Rate of fire, damage per round, and burst delay are all changing, which will all effect how fast heat builds up while trying to kill someone. This could make it OP or UP, so I suggest you test it carefully. I like the reduction in the burst delay. I like to fire in short bursts with the Standard HMG, but with the Burst HMG I would fire a burst and then when I would pull the trigger for the next burst the delay would not be over yet and nothing would happen for a moment. Since I have the slowest trigger speed of anyone I know, this does lead me to believe that the bust delay was too long. I am thinking that the Burst HMG with the new changes might go very well with the Minmitar Sentinel suit play style.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3954
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Posted - 2014.07.23 16:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:I've never actually used the Burst HMG, so I'll have to test it out. I stick to the standard HMG, I wasn't particularly fond of the Assault since my play style is more up-close and personal than the Assault was designed for. The Assault HMG works very well on some maps such as Ashland and Line Harvest, but I have just been using the Standard HMG in these maps recently. They have a combination of open areas, with a bit of cover, so either HMG will work. The Assault works really well from the Table Top, or from the top of pipes though.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4035
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Posted - 2014.08.14 15:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
My feedback so far on Sentinel changes in Hotfix Charli:
Evaluation of the New Burst HMG
[Hotfix Delta] Suggested Sentinel changes
The CPU & PG changes seem to have effected the Minmitar and Caldari Sentinels worse than the Amarr Sentinel.
The grenades were removed so that most of our fits would remain valid. While it has been a pain to have to go back in and add grenades to each of our fits, it would have been even more of a problem if we had logged in, joined a match, and then discovered that we did not have any valid fits.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4044
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Posted - 2014.08.15 14:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
I have Engineering and Electronics at 5 on both of my Sentinels, and they are both 3 or 4 levels into the HMG Optimization. But I was fitting proto mods to Standard suits. Fittings are a lot tighter now, they donGÇÖt seem unreasonable. I definitely have had to downgrade some stuff, but I have still been able to make effective fits.
The exception being the Standard Caldari Sentinel, which I do not believe can be made effective, unless you are running with a Caldari Logi with Rep Hives.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4045
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Posted - 2014.08.15 18:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
I am pushing for a 2 HP per second built in passive armor repair for the Caldari Sentinel. (3 minutes for full armor repair.) This would make the Standard Caldari Sentinel viable again, and allow the Advanced and Proto Caldari Sentinels some options as to what to put in their one low slot.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4084
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Posted - 2014.08.25 12:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
Field Testing the Caldari Standard Sentinel [Hotfix Charlie]
Reason for testing:
It was thought that the inability of the Caldari Standard Sentinel suit to repair its armor, due to the lack of a low slot, would be a crippling liability. While it is a shield tanked suit, it was thought that the armor buffer would be needed to get to cover when their shields go down, particularly if Flux grenades are used. Also, since armor accounts for 42% of a Caldari SentinelGÇÖs base health, if the armor wore down in multiple encounters, the Sentinel could be left with less health than an Assault suit, with no way to get back to full effectiveness.
Field Testing Results:
In field testing the lack of armor repair capability was not a significant issue. During testing only about 10% of deaths could be contributed to armor attrition.
The majority of deaths were from single encounter engagements were armor repair would not have affected the outcome: Rail Turrets, Forge Guns, Flux Grenade + Shotgun, 3 v 1, etc.
In cases where there are close fights leaving the Caldari Sentinel with armor damage, there were often Repping NanoHives, or blueberries with Rep tools, so armor deficits could usually be dealt with.
The only time the lack of self repair became a substantial liability was in battles where the Sentinel is encountering a lot of close fights, leaving it with armor damage, and there is no logistical support on the SentinelGÇÖs team. Only about 20% of the matches during the test met these criteria, and even in these cases if the Sentinel survived long enough that armor repair would have helped, they would usually get several kills before they succumb to Armor depletion.
Personal Observations:
I died more times from my Burst HMG overheating or running out of ammo than I did to armor attrition during the tests.
I tested with both the Burst HMG and with the Standard HMG and only had a negative KDR in one match during testing.
I have a photograph of my screen in the middle of a battle with 0 armor and full shields. I survived for about a minute after that, but died before I could find a Rep Hive.
My biggest complaint about the Caldari Standard Sentinel suit is that it is slow and has very little stamina, but that is working as intended. I am just spoiled from running Amarr and Minmatar Sentinels which do not have Stamina issues. (Technically the Amarr Sentinel is slower than the Caldari, but it can run for a long time.) I like to sprint when I am not shooting.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4084
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Posted - 2014.08.25 12:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Considering dropping the Damage Mod and SMG to basic and upping the Rep and possibly Plates to Complex for running solo. EDIT: Can fit 2x Complex Plates, Complex Rep and an Enhanced Damage Mod. Definitely better to go Proto on the defensive modules with the burst. If you manage to hit them you will kill them, so the damage mod is not really needed.
Of course you might consider swapping the Heavy Damage mod for a Complex Sidearm Damage mod in your original fit. (+8 on the Complex sidearm mod after Charlie) That way you can switch to your sidearm when heat or ammo are an issue and still be beastly.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4092
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Posted - 2014.08.26 13:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
You will have cause to use the SMG a lot more with a Burst HMG than with any other HMG. I do actually have a Burst HMG fit with no sidearm, but I would not recommend it as not having a sidearm when your clip runs dry in the middle of a fire fight is a dangerous situation.
The reason for the Sidearm Damage Mod fit suggestion is as follows:
- After 4 burst switch to sidearm to allow your HMG to cool before switching back.
- When below 60 ammo in the clip switch to your sidearm until you get a break and can reload.
This way you should never overheat or have to reload your HMG in the middle of a fire fight.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4104
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Posted - 2014.08.29 19:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4193
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Posted - 2014.09.10 15:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
Militia HMG coming in Delta. I look forward to field testing it. I donGÇÖt expect it to be very effective, but it might act as a gateway weapon.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4206
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Posted - 2014.09.11 01:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:That's going on my cheap fit for sure. If I can drop a Proto with that, like I have with the basic, I will laugh my clone to death, respawn and die laughing again.
Even better for me; LP store Forge Guns and, hopefully, Specialist Proto (the reduced fitting cost ones) HMG and Forge. We will likely have to kill Proto suits one at a time. That thing is going to overheat quick.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2014.09.22 13:43:00 -
[34] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Anyone else think that the projectile balance in Delta is going to hit the HMG harder than it will the Combat Rifle? That is an interesting point. What configuration did they settle on? +15/+15 or -20/+20?
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2014.09.23 12:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
Caldari Sentinel needed a bit of a buff. I fit Flux all the time anyway. But the time it takes to get your HMG back into action after throwing a grenade makes grenades impractical for use in combat by Sentinels most of the time, unless you can flux them and then retreat around a corner to give yourself the time you need.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2014.09.24 12:21:00 -
[36] - Quote
Analysis of the Projectile damage profile change from -5/+10 to -15/+15 (Shield/Armor) in Hot Fix Delta and what this means for HMG Sentinel vs HMG Sentinel engagements:
-15/+15 (Shield/Armor) damage profile for Projectile weapons (HMG) -15 vs Armor resistance bonus for Amarr Sentinel with max skills -10 vs Armor resistance bonus for Gallente Sentinel with max skills
HMG damage adjustment against the primary defense of each racial Sentinel: -15 vs Caldari Sentinel Shields -15 vs Minmatar Sentinel Shields +0 vs Amarr Sentinel Armor (+15 damage profile, -15 resistance bonus) +5 vs Gallente Sentinel Armor (+15 damage profile, -10 resistance bonus)
So in a stand up head to head fight in unmodified suits the Caldari Sentinel has the advantage. The Minmatar Sentinel has the same damage profile advantage but has far less health.
However when you add modules into the mix you must keep in mind that Armor Plate adds a lot more health than Shield Extenders do, and armor can be reinforced by external reps from a Repair Tool.
In HMG Sentinel vs HMG Sentinels engagements the Projectile change has the following effect on primary tanking type: 10% buff to Caldai 10% buff to Minmatar 5% nerf to Amarr 5% nerf to Gallente
Overall, I feel the shield suits needed this change as the Armor suits were superior in every way. They will be much closer to balanced now with Armor suits only having a clear advantage when paired with a Logi.
However, I think the Gallente Sentinel has slipped two patches in a row. First trading a low slot for a high slot, and then getting a 5% nerf to their primary tanking style vs other HMG Sentinels. I feel the self rep bonus on the Gallente Sentinel suit should be increased a few % to make up for these nerfs.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2014.09.25 00:23:00 -
[37] - Quote
Initial Testing of Delta Changes to the Burst HMG (-10% damage, & increased Heat buildup)
Q) Is the Burst HMG broken? A) No, it is not.
Q) Is the Advanced Burst HMG still better than a Standard HMG? A) I am not sure yet. Requires more testing.
The Advanced HMG can fire 5 Bursts without overheating, but overheats the instant the 6th Burst starts. Interestingly, if you overheat in the first engagement, you will run out of ammo in your clip just before overheating the second time, casing you to go into a reload rather than seizing up with overheat, so you can switch to a sidearm.
Proto overheats half way through the 6th burst which is one burst less than in Charlie.
Testing continuesGǪ
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2014.09.29 12:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
I have replaced my Standard HMG with a Militia HMG on several fits. I find it a lot more fun than the Standard as the heat penalty on the Militia is great enough that you actually have to think about it, but not great enough to cause any serious problems. I have only overheated in the most extreme scenarios.
In theory the Militia should hit as hard as the Standard HMG to give people a feel for what it is like to run HMG, but have severe enough penalties that people would choose the Standard over the Militia once they have skilled into it. I actually feel the Standard HMG heat buildup should be closer to the MilitiaGÇÖs current heat, and the Militia should have even more heat buildup. I donGÇÖt think there is much of a reason to choose the Standard over the Militia at this point. The penalty on the Militia is not severe enough.
I go more into my thoughts on heat buildup in this post.
I actually managed to overheat a Boundless HMG today, but I had to really REALY work at it.
I think the change of the Projectile Damage profile is more apparent with HMGGÇÖs because Sentinel vs Sentinel battles tend to be so close that every little advantage makes a big difference. I have switched out Damage Mods for Shield Extenders on my Advanced Amarr Sentinel fits.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2014.09.30 12:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
I donGÇÖt really think there is any difference between the Militia and Standard HMG when facing another sentinel 1v1. One or the other of you will be dead before the Militia HMG overheats. The heat buildup and smaller clip only become a factor when dealing with another Sentinel when there are other enemy involved in the engagement.
I have killed plenty of Sentinels with the Militia HMG, and been killed by a fair number of Militia HMGGÇÖs as well. Of course the damage is comparable to a Standard HMG, so Advanced, Proto, and Burst will have the advantage. I also find Caldari Sentinels to be a hard nut to crack since the change to the projectile damage profile.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2014.10.01 11:59:00 -
[40] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Haven't come across many Cal Sentinels yet, but I'm sure they'll pop up eventually. The Gal has fallen out of favour, following what amounts to two nerfs in a row. Yeah, I have been pushing for an increase to the Gallente Sentinel suitGÇÖs passive Rep bonus.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2014.11.01 02:07:00 -
[41] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:I took a break from the game came back to find ALL Dropsuits got a built in regen. When did that happen? Just a few days ago, but it is definitely a help for the Standard Caldari Sentinel which has no low slots. It also allowed me to put a Kin Cat on my Quafe Minmitar Sentinel suit. (That's right, we got Fabulous pink Sentinel BPO's now!)
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2014.11.13 19:15:00 -
[42] - Quote
Previous Heat Buildup per Second: Militia HMG: 23.5 Standard HMG: 16 Advanced HMG: 15.2 Prototype HMG: 14.4 Officer HMG: 12.8
My Proposed Heath Buildup per Second: Militia HMG: 26 Standard HMG: 20 Advanced HMG: 18 Prototype HMG: 16 Officer HMG: 14
CCP Rattati wrote:So we are aiming for redoing the "lost" balance hotfix next Tuesday. Here are additional tweaks we are proposing to add to that hotfix. Please comment. HMG-Sentinel is simply too dominant across all game modes. The best way to allow other Frames to combat them is to get them when they are down. I believe Heat is the best way to manage this situation. Good Sentinels will manage their heat well and not be bothered by this change. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2378540#post2378540Militia HMG23.5 25.0buff; new 22.8 Standard HMG18 20.0nerf; new 19 Advanced HMG17.1 19.0nerf; 18.1 Prototype HMG16.2 18.0nerf; 17.1 Officer HMG15.3 17.0nerf; 16.2
And before someone flames me for suggesting this, if Rattati felt a nerf to HMG was necessary wouldnGÇÖt you guys rather this than some of the alternatives?
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2014.12.05 13:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
The Burst HMG, and informal users manual
I use it regularly. It is not easy, but it is very effective when you are in the grove and using it properly.
Try to limit yourself to 3 bursts unless you are going for the kill. Because if you try for 3 bursts and are just a little slow taking your finger off the trigger, then it will fire 4 bursts, which is fine. However, if you try to fire 4 bursts, and are a bit slow releasing the trigger, it will fire the 5th burst which will overheat your weapon (unless it runs out of ammo first). You want to avoid overheating, unless you are in a 1v1 situation and you are sure that last burst will kill your opponent.
You need to engage one enemy at a time. The best way to take on groups is to use cover. Step out, shoot 3 to 4 bursts (hopefully get a kill if you are accurate) and step back behind cover.
If they follow you behind cover immediately: Switch to your sidearm to engage the person chasing you and if you don't manage to kill them quickly switch back to your Burst HMG to finish them (it will have cooled off by this point).
If they follow you behind cover after you have had a second to cool: Try to kill them in 2 or 3 bursts from your HMG, then switch to your sidearm if they are not dead yet.
If they don't follow you behind cover: Reload and then repeat.
If you overheat, waddle to cover and hope no one noticed the overheat animation. If they feel intimidated by your HMG it will often take them 4 or 5 seconds to get up the nerve to follow you, and by that time your overheat is over. Honestly I am amazed at how often I survive overheating in a fire fight.
If you don't have grenades, due to fitting restrictions or simply because you used them already, use your sidearm to kill Uplinks. You don't want to waist your Burst HMG ammo, and you don't want to add unnecessary heat when out of combat in case you are attacked unexpectedly.
This all sounds drastic, and it is, but the Burst HMG also does a massive amount of damage. If you make those bursts count you can often kill people in two bursts, especially if you get a head shot. Even a well tanked medium frame suit will usually die to 3 bursts.
The nerf to the HMG heat buildup took it right to the edge, but did not break it. It is still a fine weapon. It is just VERY hard to use and VERY unforgiving. But when used right, it is still the most deadly automatic weapon in the game.
If I am tired or not on my game, I will switch out to the base model HMG as it is so much more forgiving.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2014.12.26 22:34:00 -
[44] - Quote
Megaman, I tried a fit like this with the Amarr Sentinel before the Gal and Amarr Sent slots were switched. I feel it is a solid fit, but I ended up replacing one of the 3 reps with a plate, mostly personal preference really. My armor was repairing faster than my shields with 3x Proto Repers. More recently I have also gone with a Kin Cat, a Plate, and a Proto Rep in the lows. I tend to try to operate in shields mostly and try not to let my armor get too low, so I donGÇÖt have to wait around for armor reps.
However with the Gallente rep bonus and 3x Proto Reps you can heal through some damage, such as someone firing at you from their max range as you cross a field. Normally armor repair is for recovery between battles, but if you have enough rep it can start to effect your EHP during the fight too. I would be interested to hear how many HP per second you get on that fit.
If you can reduce their DPS enough through use of cover and strafing, it will make even more of a difference. However, without Plate you will be susceptible to Alpha damage, including getting one-shotted by Nova Knives.
My BPO fit which uses militia modules on a standard Amarr Sent has 3x reps.
I like to use an Energizer in the Highs. I might replace the regulator with an Extender, but I suggest you experiment to see what you are comfortable with.
Overall, your fit is totally valid, and any changes would be for personal preference and play stay.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2014.12.27 01:02:00 -
[45] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Thanks for the feedback.
I'll try swapping out a Rep for a Plate and see how it goes, but even a triple plate fit gets 1-shot by Proto Knives if both slashes land.
Regulators are low slot, so using one would replace the Armour Rep or Plate. While the Depleted Delay is low in the Cal suits, and combined with the high rep rate can make them hard to deal with and great for hit and run, the normal delay is too long for me. Regulators was a typo. I meant for you to try replacing the Recharger with an Extender. (Just what I would do. You might like the Recharger better.)
I would say try it for a while with the triple rep before you try it with a plate. My point was that I ended up preferring a hybrid fit. My current fit has Speed, Rep, and Plate. But going full out on just one of those has definite advantages and if you can make it work with your play style, has the potential to be quite effective.
Recently I have been running a Min Sent with 2 Kin Cats, relying on the suit's native recharge. Now that is a dam fun fit, but definitely lacks survivability and recovery.
On the Caldari suit I normally still put a Rep or Reactive Plate in the low, but now that it has a native armor repair, putting a Regulator in the low is valid if the delay bothers you.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2014.12.28 17:37:00 -
[46] - Quote
I know of two other E-War Sentinels. Unfortunately I donGÇÖt remember their names, but they claim that it can give you an advantage.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2015.01.11 16:25:00 -
[47] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Hey Fox, did you know there's a glitch that lets you cancel part of the HMG's reload animation but not cancel the actual reload itself? I was aware. I think the reloading part has to be complete before it work. I have not timed it to determine how long the reload takes if you begin to sprint once the new magazine has been put in.
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Fox Gaden
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5989
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Posted - 2015.02.21 20:57:00 -
[48] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:It's not much further than the normal HMG. I know it's less than 10m difference and I think the main difference is actually in the dispersion. I managed to find some numbers, not sure how recent they are; Standard HMG - 35m optimal Assault HMG - 49m optimal The Assault has tighter fire, meaning it can actually hit at it's optimal right?
You add in Dispersion and the in field Effective range is about the same as the on paper Optimal range, for both of them.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2015.02.21 21:05:00 -
[49] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Fox, can I get your input on this Proto Sentinel?
Gallente gk.0 Boundless/Six Kin Burst HMG Breach SMG Flux Grenade 3x Complex Armour Reps Enhanced Shield Energizer Complex Shield Recharger
Trying to go for max regen without sacrificing too much HP. That and I can't fit a pair of Complex Rechargers, let alone Energizers.
Also, is a Complex Regulator worth taking on a Proto Cal fit that has 100+hp/s shield regen?
I finally started skilling into Gallente Sentinel. (Only level 3 currently.) Today I was running with the Advanced Sentinel version of your fit:
3x Complex Armor Reps Complex Shield Energizer Advanced Burst HMG + Flux & Sidearm
Definitely viable if you play it right. Armor is Repping while you are ducked into cover waiting for the Burst HMG to cool down.
I am still having more success with my double Kin Cat Min Sent fit, but that may be because I am not fully skilled in Gal Sent yet.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2015.03.04 18:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:HMG dps and range will be toned down, burst hmg will keep current range, assault hmg will be a longer range autocannon with anti-vehicle capability. Link
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2015.03.05 13:34:00 -
[51] - Quote
I am thinking it will be like this:
HMG: Specialized for Urban warfare, excelling in CQC. Great for point defense in Urban settings.
Burst HMG: Close to Mid range, tricky to use, but very effective in 1v1 encounters, and more versatile range wise. Even with a bit of a Damage nerf it will be quite effective. I don't think too much will be done to it, as it is not excessively popular right now. (It is not an armature friendly weapon.)
Assault HMG: Finally a Heavy Weapon for more open maps, and apparently it uses armor penetrating bullets as it is more effective against vehicles.
I am just wondering how they are going to turn the Assault HMG into an Autocannon without making it OP? I suppose if they left the damage as is, reduced dispersion, gave it a little more range, and changed the damage percentage against vehicles, that might work.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2015.03.05 13:58:00 -
[52] - Quote
Actually the Hot Fix Echo Narrative seems to suggest the Burst will get a range reduction too.
Quote: Heavy Machine Guns Always a touchy subject, but by deep diving we see that the normal HMG is completely prevalent in Planetary Conquest, has a K/S ratio above what it acceptable, and renders short range rifles such as the Gallente Assault Rifle moot, something needed to be done. So we are reducing range on the HMG and Burst while keeping the the Assault HMG the highest range. We will also be reducing the ROF and increasing the damage on the Assault HMG, to make it a sort of an auto-cannon (with 75% efficiency against vehicles), that is able to interrupt shield recharge on LAVs, which is in turn being reduced from 102 to 40.
Of course if they reduce range on the HMG by 10m, it will only mean that the range on paper will actually match the range we already have in the field due to dispersion...
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2015.03.06 19:51:00 -
[53] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:After this, they really need to give us more heavy weapons. There needs to be more shield-based AV, which 2 would be, and more AI options beyond HMG or grabbing a light weapon.
There is talk of removing the Shield/Armour profiles from AV weapons, as in making weapons do equal damage to Shields and Armor. There is also talk of increasing the vehicle damage of Mass Drivers, Flaylock Pistols, and Laser Rifles.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:52:00 -
[54] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:What about the Proficiency skill? Will that be like with knives? A good question.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2015.03.13 12:36:00 -
[55] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Anyone tested the HMG following Echo?
Am I the only one who thinks the BPO we got for the 5MCC is really benificial to Sentinels but not so much to other roles? An Advanced Heavy Damage mod which also gives +4% damage to your sidearm? Hell yes, it is good for Sentinels! Just remember to switch to your sidearm before you overheat, so you can make full use of the new BPO.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2015.03.13 12:42:00 -
[56] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Did a bit of testing with the assault HMG, its damage is really good and it's pretty ammo efficient, (I'd rename it 'breach' hmg) but it has a bit much dispersion to actually be used at its ~60m range. I am with you on the name change. It feels like a Breach weapon.
The gun sounds awesome now!
I would still like to see a reduction to dispersion.
I have not had a chance to use it against a vehicle yet.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2015.03.13 12:46:00 -
[57] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:Did a bit of testing with the assault HMG, its damage is really good and it's pretty ammo efficient, (I'd rename it 'breach' hmg) but it has a bit much dispersion to actually be used at its ~60m range. How about 50m? Hardly accurate at 30m, If it was more accurate it might be op. But it stll can't hit at it's intended/stated range, right? It needed reduced dispersion before. It still needs reduced dispersion. We need an HMG for open maps. It does not do enough damage in CQC to be OP.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2015.04.01 12:42:00 -
[58] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Guess this 'balance' worked because I see less Sentinels out there now. Hell, even I'm running the HMG less now; been running the Forge and and SMG more instead. I think I would be ok with the HMG nerf if I was able to use the Assault HMG in more open areas, but without a dispersion reduction it is just an awesome sounding weapon that can't apply damage. (Like a chain saw without a chain.) The reduction to rate of fire actually made the weapon worse than it was before. Slow rate of fire and high dispersion do not go together well. It results in kills being based on random chance.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2015.04.02 12:32:00 -
[59] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Dispersion definitely needs fixing. Like yesterday. And a rename to Breach HMG, so it' makes sense. The base HMG can be the actual Assault variant (high ROF, low damage per shot, short range) Your suggestion makes sense to me.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2015.04.08 12:41:00 -
[60] - Quote
I am hoping they fix the Assault HMG soon, but in the mean time I am running a Heavy Shotgun Scout.
Min Advanced Sentinel 1x Complex Myofibril Stimulant. 2x Complex Kinetic Catalyzers Burst HMG SMG
Getting a lot of SMG kills as I switch to the SMG for anything over 25m way, as well as switching after the third burst in prolonged or multi target fights.
The Myofibril Stimulant is mainly to assist in movement over rough terrain that a Sentinel would otherwise struggle with. I have a Complex Energizer in the other high slot, but did not list it above as it is a personal preference item. You could go with a second Myofibril, add some more buffer with a Shield extender, or even equip the +4 Damage BPO that benefits both your HMG and SMG.
The main point of the fit is to be harder to hit when you are on the move, cross open ground quickly, and get into close range before engaging. If I see a medium frame 40m away in the middle of a field and looking the other way I will sprint over half way to him before I open fire, and then sprint back to cover when he is dead.
When using a short range weapon you either need speed, or you need to stay in-doors, and there are a lot of maps where staying indoors is not an option. Until we have a viable mid range weapon, our options are limited.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2015.04.20 13:03:00 -
[61] - Quote
Medical Crash wrote:Hi, I've got a lot of new- low SP players in my corp right now, and I'm trying to train some of them to be a heavy. Are there any good experienced heavies still checking out this thread? Can you give me some advice?
What armor modules are you using, regular, Ferroscale, or Reactives?
What HMG is the best for beginners?
I want my guys to be able to hold chokepoints in city maps with their logis. I have the logi tips covered, but not the heavy.
Thanks for the help/ Megaman's advice is good.
I would recommend Amarr Sent with 1 Rep and regular Plates for the rest of the lows, if they are running with logi.
When solo they should run 2 Proto Rep (or 3 mil/std reps) and if there is room, 1 regular Plate.
Gal Sent might be just as good, but I only just skilled into it, and have not tested fits on it very much yet. Mega knows it better than I.
The regular HMG is the easiest one to start with, but tell them to switch to an SMG for anything over 20m.
The Burst is very effective if they can aim well, but it is also very tricky. To learn it quickly they need to follow this rule: 3 Bursts, switch to Sidearm. After about 5 seconds they can switch back for another 3 bursts. If you use a Burst HMG right you get a lot of sidearm kills. (If you try for 4 bursts before switching to sidearm you will often get the accidental 5th burst and overheat.)
If they have logi support and are trying to hold choke points I would definitely recommend the HMG over the Burst HMG. The Burst is for targeted quick kills. It can't sustain fire.
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2015.04.21 16:48:00 -
[62] - Quote
The Scout community has the Barbershop thread.
Now the Logi community has the Triage Ward thread.
If I was to create a Sentinel community thread, what should I call it?
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Fox Gaden
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Posted - 2015.04.22 13:10:00 -
[63] - Quote
Although I gave serious consideration to The Big and Tall Shop, I decided to call our Sentinel thread The Bastion. It seemed like it would be a good name for a bar were Sentinels might hang out.
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