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Ghermard-ol Dizeriois
Maphia Clan Corporation
51
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Posted - 2014.01.06 11:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Can you CCP explain me why a TANK makes less noise and is less visible than a HVY Amarr?
Seriously, unless you're watching an enemy tank, it can easily sneak behind you with very little noise! 
If you are an hacker, a cheater o a glitcher, you deserve death. In real life.
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Ulme Mees
Rautaleijona
Top Men.
83
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Posted - 2014.01.06 12:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yep! My passive scanning picks up other suits but not tanks...
Fear is a disease!
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Harpyja
DUST University
Ivy League
1030
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Posted - 2014.01.06 18:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ulme Mees wrote:Yep! My passive scanning picks up other suits but not tanks...
Keep in mind your passive scanner has a base range of 10m and 16m on light suits. So a tank won't be picked up passively if it's 11m away from you.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4364
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Posted - 2014.01.06 19:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Ulme Mees wrote:Yep! My passive scanning picks up other suits but not tanks... Keep in mind your passive scanner has a base range of 10m and 16m on light suits. So a tank won't be picked up passively if it's 11m away from you.
Something I've been meaning to test as well considering how finnicky the passive scanning is.
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Ghermard-ol Dizeriois
Maphia Clan Corporation
55
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Posted - 2014.01.06 19:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Ulme Mees wrote:Yep! My passive scanning picks up other suits but not tanks... Keep in mind your passive scanner has a base range of 10m and 16m on light suits. So a tank won't be picked up passively if it's 11m away from you.
You are right stating that, but it is ridiculous that your internal scanning system cannot locate a tank even if it's beyond 10 meters.
We're not talking about a rifleman or a LAV, which is not so big, a tank is something big, noisy, smoky... definitely not something "stealth"!
If you are an hacker, a cheater o a glitcher, you deserve death. In real life.
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Tch Tch
Red Shirts Away Team
100
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Posted - 2014.01.06 23:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Scanning should work like either sound (since they are using dB) which means a source loses 6dB per doubling of distance
Ie a 150dB noise will at 1000km be as loud as a 50dB noise at 10m
See this web page with explanations, calculators and equations:
Sound attenuation
OR scanning should be based on how light attenuated (brightness dims as 1/distance^2)
Either way they should use at least one of the physical phenomena so that it allows objects to be passively scanned if they are bright/loud from a larger distance. At the moment it is quite inconsistent with natural phenomena and it is a wonder the suits can see the sun or the moons as despite their high brightness they are clearly outside that magic 10m mark.
Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
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Grit Breather
Cannonfodder PMC
910
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Posted - 2014.01.07 11:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Time for some raw numbers...
First, Madrugar.
Second, PRO Heavy.
Now let's move on...
These 2 types (items in DUST are called types and have a unique typeID) each have an attribute called signatureScanProfile. That is the attributed that determines how much "noise" each type creates. This is what we see in-game and is measured in dB.
The Madrugar has this set as 200.
The heavy suit has this set as 65.
As you can see, tanks make a hell of a lot more "noise" than even a heavy suit (light suits are somewhere around 35).
What you should keep in mind though, is something that was raised in a previous reply by Tch Tch. Most suits have a passive scan radius of 10m.
Hell, even tanks have a passive scan range of 10m.
A bit silly... But that's what it is. You are limited by your 10m range and that's why you can't see tanks around you.
"Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
GÇò Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
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Ghermard-ol Dizeriois
Maphia Clan Corporation
55
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Posted - 2014.01.07 15:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Grit Breather wrote:What you should keep in mind though, is something that was raised in a previous reply by Tch Tch. Most suits have a passive scan radius of 10m.
Hell, even tanks have a passive scan range of 10m.
A bit silly... But that's what it is. You are limited by your 10m range and that's why you can't see tanks around you.
I can't argue with your numbers, yet I refuse to assume that the sensors of each armor become TOTALLY useless beyond 10 meters.
Sounds move across the space and if they are powerful enough to reach your suit, this sound should be analized and you should get some intel about an HAV or, at closer distances, a LAV.
If you are an hacker, a cheater o a glitcher, you deserve death. In real life.
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Lt Royal
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2316
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Posted - 2014.01.07 15:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ok so they don't pop up on the minimap or appear flashy next to you on the screen, but you can hear them coming from at least 35 meters away!
If you're having a problem with tanks, get a headset (you should have one anyway) or crank up your TV volume.......
Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Subdreddit Recruitment Video Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
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CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
97
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Posted - 2014.01.07 17:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ghermard-ol Dizeriois wrote:Can you CCP explain me why a TANK makes less noise and is less visible than a HVY Amarr? Seriously, unless you're watching an enemy tank, it can easily sneak behind you with very little noise!
  Salutations, Ghermard. And I think your thread MAY have accidentally been derailed into a question of scanner performance, when I THINK you may have been referring to simple hardcore situational awareness during a fight.
Hearing-wise I agree with your concern. I am a dropship driver, and I know the ugly growl of my engine's works perfectly in the game as a giveaway to mercs on the ground that the enemy may be attempting an aerial strike or deployment. I say this is "PERFECT" because it gives you on the ground a situational-awareness advantage, gives me a handicap I need to worry about when I'm making a surprise move on the map, and it raises the possible tactical stakes of the game a few cool notches (...um, I say "possible" tactical stakes, because LOL, so many of us still don't try much tactical thinking in this game...).
The HAV DOES make a sound, and it's a cool sound too. (I almost think the Gallente's HAV is a warmer hum, while you can actually hear wheels clanking/turning in the Caldari HAV,..but that could all be me going cuckoo from too much late night gaming)
But to my ears also... the sound is too subdued and gets hidden by even a little small arms fire.
Situation-awareness (that's eyes and ears alone, without electronic scanners or even MIC) is the backbone survival tool to learn when you're a Newberry in Dust. And it's become my TACTICAL tool now that I'm a little more advanced in the game. So I think all vehicles should have visual or audial characteristics on a hard-to-miss level.
Each gun emplacement has its own "signature" if you listen to them, the DS has it's growl, every vehicle is betrayed by its headlights/floodlights in the dark-mood maps, and LAVs always had pretty audible drivetrain...
HAV is the only one sort of missing from the list. You're right, Ghermard. |
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Harpyja
DUST University
Ivy League
1034
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Posted - 2014.01.07 17:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lt Royal wrote:Ok so they don't pop up on the minimap or appear flashy next to you on the screen, but you can hear them coming from at least 35 meters away!
If you're having a problem with tanks, get a headset (you should have one anyway) or crank up your TV volume.......
Yeah even I can hear other tanks while driving my own. It's all part of my situational awareness.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Grit Breather
Cannonfodder PMC
910
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Posted - 2014.01.08 10:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ghermard-ol Dizeriois wrote:Grit Breather wrote:What you should keep in mind though, is something that was raised in a previous reply by Tch Tch. Most suits have a passive scan radius of 10m.
Hell, even tanks have a passive scan range of 10m.
A bit silly... But that's what it is. You are limited by your 10m range and that's why you can't see tanks around you. I can't argue with your numbers, yet I refuse to assume that the sensors of each armor become TOTALLY useless beyond 10 meters. Sounds move across the space and if they are powerful enough to reach your suit, this sound should be analized and you should get some intel about an HAV or, at closer distances, a LAV.
I fully agree with what you're saying about 10m. It's a very silly hard limit.
But another thing is your interpretation of dB. It's a bit of an odd unit in DUST/EVE as it doesn't directly correspond to any formal use of dB anywhere else.
Basically, it's not sound or any other form of a wave. It's basically a representation of size of your distortion as picked up by other scanners. Not very wave-like or frequency related at all as far as I understand it.
Something EVE has that I would really like DUST to have is various elements playing with your dB signature. We already have modules that play with the profile size but EVE goes a step further. In EVE your signature (dB value) grows with your shield tank. The more shield you have (I'm simplifying here), the easier you are to lock on to.
"Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
GÇò Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
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Ghermard-ol Dizeriois
Maphia Clan Corporation
60
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Posted - 2014.01.08 11:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
I have ALWASY assumed that "dB" meant Decibels.
That would explain why I can't pick up a tank even if it's moving close to me but not in my FoV: the sensors do not read noises around, they only pick "field distortions" generated by shields.
So, how do armor sensors actually work?
On a different note, I had wriitten a reply here, but it seems it was deleted... why? 
If you are an hacker, a cheater o a glitcher, you deserve death. In real life.
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Grit Breather
Cannonfodder PMC
917
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Posted - 2014.01.09 11:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ghermard-ol Dizeriois wrote:I have ALWASY assumed that "dB" meant Decibels. That would explain why I can't pick up a tank even if it's moving close to me but not in my FoV: the sensors do not read noises around, they only pick "field distortions" generated by shields. So, how do armor sensors actually work? On a different note, I had wriitten a reply here, but it seems it was deleted... why?
Your reply was deleted because the forums hate you. I always CTRL A, CTRL C before posting. That post button is not reliable... :)
As for distortion, it doesn't only pick up shield distortion, it pick up all distortion. In EVE, shield have more of it in a way.
I do hope DUST gets to EVE's profile complexities soon... Would make things great.
"Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
GÇò Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
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Ghermard-ol Dizeriois
Maphia Clan Corporation
65
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Posted - 2014.01.09 21:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Grit Breather wrote:As for distortion, it doesn't only pick up shield distortion, it pick up all distortion. In EVE, shield have more of it in a way.
I do hope DUST gets to EVE's profile complexities soon... Would make things great.
Well, that was kinda obvious, but after all everything has a shield generator in DUST, even MLT suits 
Anyway, I keep getting ninja'd by enemy tanks
If you are an hacker, a cheater o a glitcher, you deserve death. In real life.
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POWERTRAP EDDIEKANEJR
ZionTCD
6
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Posted - 2014.02.25 05:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
First off excuse me if this was already discussed, but this was the main issue with LAVs and the "murder taxis" its more relevant now because most folks were not pouring SP into range amplification and precision enhancement so it was chalked up to OP LAVs and then the free went away.,....sad day.......now TTK went down and now thats issue, I could go on and on, but at the end of the day most of these forum complaints (crybabies) tunes life time SP is barely 3mil, if that. You cant get a full grasp for the game when you spend half of that 3 million SP just to go basic proto and wonder why your proto suit proto gun is getting hammered, ITS MORE THAN JUST YOUR PROTO GUN AND PROTO SUIT YOU HAVE TO PLACE MORE FOCUS ON YOUR DROPSUIT UPGRADES AND MAYBE MAYBE YOU JUST MIGHT STAY ALIVE A LITTLE LONGER. But anyway just take a breath close your eyes and think about what and where we know this game we love, Dust 514, think about planetary, factions, our very own instalation drop, drones, race suits, vehicles, weapons, player market, maps, huge maps and battles, epic battles all the good things we know we should have in this game called Dust514. Now think think about how you and your squad , your team lack the ability to adapt to that red line thales, or that red line rail or that tank that 1 man cant kill or even to the to the ebb and flow of any particular battle because of a bad spawn points because some folks farm for SP, or a guy with a needle that runs over you and away because they forgot their carrying an injector, or that guy that loves the triangle button and as you go to revive with your proto needle he's not waiting for you he's heated he died in his basic proto and respawns when he has 10 seconds and your 10 meters from him you think you missed the hit ,then you die trying to save his dumb ass, or even better guys spawn in with locus when flux are urgently need and a do that 3 or 4 times long as their in the top of the leader board, as long as they can keep that KDR in the positive they dont care that the team took the L but that don't matter they only think of themselves in this squad based shooter, then they complain to CCP and CCP take feedback and change sometimes for the good but recently most of the time for the bad because they dont know any better..This is their first console release, but because of these type of issues we are stuck in Molden Heath. Dont get me wrong I know some things need a nerf and some things need a buff but most of the complaints are coming lower teir SP players trying to play like they top teir when they are not. I wont even get into if these people even spent money in support of a game like none before it to complain like they do. I done drop too much money in love for this game and im not complaining half as much as I see on these forums.
In closing at the end of the day first and foremost CCP is a business witb investors yada yada yada blah blah blah thats a major conerstone for the people of Iceland and we all know when its business its just that dont get so sensitive. What we all need to do is get all the COD and BF player's and convert they ass if the got a character from last year find them help them spend those Skill Points wisely.
"Bold" I love killing Protos in pub matches.
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