DUST Search - Public Opinion on a Vehicle Delay

Agrios Endendros wrote:

Thumb Green wrote:

The problem isn't how quickly vehicles can be called in; if it were we would have had this problem before 1.7. The problem is vehicles are too effective and/or their counter is too ineffective thus the reward far outweighs the risk of using them. A delay would be just that, a delay and it would still come down to which team could call in their vehicles first. To really fix this problem the reward vs lack of risk must be addressed.

I am not trying to fix the interaction between tanks and infantry with this. I don't have a problem with that, except militia tanks are too good. I am trying to balance tanks vs tanks between the two teams. Though as a result of having tanks on both sides to fight one another, it would greatly reduce the amount of damage any tanks are doing to infantry.

Tanks are effective now, as they should be. Some AV needs a little buff but not much. The reason that we didn't have this before 1.7 is that tanks were a sidenote with very little impact on matches. Now, they are a key part of combat and if your team can't keep tanks on the field, or get them out in the first place, there is a very good chance you will lose the match. That is what I want to make fair.

CCP: Is it the most asinine way possible to do this? Yes. Then that's how we're doing it.

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Agrios Endendros Single Serving Friends 67	Posted - 2014.01.05 22:35:00 - [1] - Quote I posted this in the feedback section but that area doesn't always get that much attention from the general public and I wondered what the feelings on this would be. I think there should be a delay of maybe 30 secs from match start that neither team can call in HAVs or Dropships. I think half the problem with Ambush in particular right now, is the poor deploy and beginning of the match lag. When the opposing team has 4 tanks LANDED and rolling across the field before I could even deploy in, let alone call in a counter-vehicle, that can seal the match right there. None of the tankers on my team can call any in at that point and now it's my team of 16 infantry, 4 or so of whom are spec'ed into nothing but vehicles, versus 5 tanks and 2 dropships + Infantry. If there were a delay, both teams would have an equal chance at being completely deployed and be required to take up strategic positions to call in vehicles. I understand that I likely gain this advantage as much as I am defeated by it, but that kind of game winning advantage should not be left to chance. This is of great importance in Ambush, but I think all game modes could benefit. This would also increase the importance and proper use of LAVs. Ideally, Scotty would be able to identify the roles that players could fill on a team and ensure each team has a balanced number of potential tankers, and everything else for that matter, but that is wishful thinking. Agrios Endendros Heavy Haruko Endendros AV Logi ~ Canti Endendros Pilot ~ Zero Endendros Support Logi
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 2630	Posted - 2014.01.05 22:38:00 - [2] - Quote I completely agree Proud member of the Commndo 6 <3 Commando AK.0
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 50	Posted - 2014.01.05 22:48:00 - [3] - Quote I've been feeling same way that there needs to be some delay/barrier to fielding vehicles, but a flat timer delay would do nothing other than being just a delay. I was thinking something along the lines of having vehicles cost WP like orbitals do you need x amount of extravehicular WPs to deploy x vehicle it gets popped, you can't recall another one until you accumulated the neccesary WPs.
Mithridates VI Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2541	Posted - 2014.01.05 22:50:00 - [4] - Quote So players with all the SP in vehicles do what? AFK in the MCC until the timer expires or their team gets enough WP and are then at a disadvantage on the killboard? Or run around in MLT gear until they're allowed to do what they skilled into? Please refrain from utilizing such inflammatory sarcasm in the future. GÇö CCP Eterne
Agrios Endendros Single Serving Friends 67	Posted - 2014.01.05 22:59:00 - [5] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: So players with all the SP in vehicles do what? AFK in the MCC until the timer expires or their team gets enough WP and are then at a disadvantage on the killboard? Or run around in MLT gear until they're allowed to do what they skilled into? I don't think the WP thing will work for thje reason you mention, but 30 secs(or 20, 15, or whatever) is NOT a long time. Just enough to ensure both teams have a CHANCE to completely spawn in. Smart pilots with everything into vehicles, like my own Canti alt, would use that time to find a safe call in location. 30 secs may be pushing it, even just 10 secs might be enough to balance the issue. Some timing tests would have to be done. Agrios Endendros Heavy Haruko Endendros AV Logi ~ Canti Endendros Pilot ~ Zero Endendros Support Logi
Mithridates VI Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2541	Posted - 2014.01.05 23:01:00 - [6] - Quote Mm, I wouldn't be opposed to a short timer so there's an opportunity for first vehicles to be deployed simultaneously by both teams. Please refrain from utilizing such inflammatory sarcasm in the future. GÇö CCP Eterne
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 51	Posted - 2014.01.05 23:03:00 - [7] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: So players with all the SP in vehicles do what? AFK in the MCC until the timer expires or their team gets enough WP and are then at a disadvantage on the killboard? Or run around in MLT gear until they're allowed to do what they skilled into? Not on a team level, a squad or individual one
Mithridates VI Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2541	Posted - 2014.01.05 23:05:00 - [8] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Mithridates VI wrote: So players with all the SP in vehicles do what? AFK in the MCC until the timer expires or their team gets enough WP and are then at a disadvantage on the killboard? Or run around in MLT gear until they're allowed to do what they skilled into? Not on a team level, a squad or individual one That would be even worse. Imagine being told that you couldn't use any of what you personally have skilled into until you got enough warpoints doing something that isn't your role. Ridiculous. Please refrain from utilizing such inflammatory sarcasm in the future. GÇö CCP Eterne
Agrios Endendros Single Serving Friends 67	Posted - 2014.01.05 23:06:00 - [9] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: Mm, I wouldn't be opposed to a short timer so there's an opportunity for first vehicles to be deployed simultaneously by both teams. That's what I'm going for. Agrios Endendros Heavy Haruko Endendros AV Logi ~ Canti Endendros Pilot ~ Zero Endendros Support Logi
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 51	Posted - 2014.01.05 23:11:00 - [10] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Mithridates VI wrote: So players with all the SP in vehicles do what? AFK in the MCC until the timer expires or their team gets enough WP and are then at a disadvantage on the killboard? Or run around in MLT gear until they're allowed to do what they skilled into? Not on a team level, a squad or individual one That would be even worse. Imagine being told that you couldn't use any of what you personally have skilled into until you got enough warpoints doing something that isn't your role. Ridiculous. If someone skills only into vehicles it comes back to bite them I think that is wholly their fault. It's a bad idea that shouldn't be rewarded like spreading sp across across a wide variety of skills. Personal preference before game balance is what you are saying. You're in a dropsuit first last time I checked.

Thumb Green Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 633	Posted - 2014.01.05 23:13:00 - [11] - Quote The problem isn't how quickly vehicles can be called in; if it were we would have had this problem before 1.7. The problem is vehicles are too effective and/or their counter is too ineffective thus the reward far outweighs the risk of using them. A delay would be just that, a delay and it would still come down to which team could call in their vehicles first. To really fix this problem the reward vs lack of risk must be addressed. CCP: Is it the most asinine way possible to do this? Yes. Then that's how we're doing it.
Agrios Endendros Single Serving Friends 67	Posted - 2014.01.05 23:18:00 - [12] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Mithridates VI wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Mithridates VI wrote: So players with all the SP in vehicles do what? AFK in the MCC until the timer expires or their team gets enough WP and are then at a disadvantage on the killboard? Or run around in MLT gear until they're allowed to do what they skilled into? Not on a team level, a squad or individual one That would be even worse. Imagine being told that you couldn't use any of what you personally have skilled into until you got enough warpoints doing something that isn't your role. Ridiculous. If someone skills only into vehicles it comes back to bite them I think that is wholly their fault. It's a bad idea that shouldn't be rewarded like spreading sp across across a wide variety of skills. You're in a dropsuit first last time I checked. I don't agree with this at all. This game is all about specialization and typically punishes those who don't. While I agree with you that it doesn't need rewarded, it certainly shouldn't be punished, which is what you propose. Pilots should be able to use their chosen "weapons" without having to earn the right to do so, I just want that right to be given to both teams at the same time. Agrios Endendros Heavy Haruko Endendros AV Logi ~ Canti Endendros Pilot ~ Zero Endendros Support Logi
Agrios Endendros Single Serving Friends 68	Posted - 2014.01.05 23:23:00 - [13] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: The problem isn't how quickly vehicles can be called in; if it were we would have had this problem before 1.7. The problem is vehicles are too effective and/or their counter is too ineffective thus the reward far outweighs the risk of using them. A delay would be just that, a delay and it would still come down to which team could call in their vehicles first. To really fix this problem the reward vs lack of risk must be addressed. I am not trying to fix the interaction between tanks and infantry with this. I don't have a problem with that, except militia tanks are too good. I am trying to balance tanks vs tanks between the two teams. Though as a result of having tanks on both sides to fight one another, it would greatly reduce the amount of damage any tanks are doing to infantry. Agrios Endendros Heavy Haruko Endendros AV Logi ~ Canti Endendros Pilot ~ Zero Endendros Support Logi
ladwar Death by Disassociation Legacy Rising 1967	Posted - 2014.01.05 23:27:00 - [14] - Quote i would settle for 15 second wait for the game to sycn everyone up on the spawning screen since there have been a few matches where i hit spawn as soon as the spawn screen shows up and there is already a forge sniper overlooking, on tall tower, our spawn area the moment i spawn in and i was the first one to spawn on my team. meaning he had enough time to spawn, call in a dropship fly it over there and recall it and then went to ledge to start shooting before i even got to see my gun in my hands. Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
Agrios Endendros Single Serving Friends 68	Posted - 2014.01.05 23:30:00 - [15] - Quote ladwar wrote: i would settle for 15 second wait for the game to sycn everyone up on the spawning screen since there have been a few matches where i hit spawn as soon as the spawn screen shows up and there is already a forge sniper overlooking, on tall tower, our spawn area the moment i spawn in and i was the first one to spawn on my team. meaning he had enough time to spawn, call in a dropship fly it over there and recall it and then went to ledge to start shooting before i even got to see my gun in my hands. That is exactly the issue. Agrios Endendros Heavy Haruko Endendros AV Logi ~ Canti Endendros Pilot ~ Zero Endendros Support Logi
Thumb Green Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 633	Posted - 2014.01.06 03:17:00 - [16] - Quote Agrios Endendros wrote: Thumb Green wrote: The problem isn't how quickly vehicles can be called in; if it were we would have had this problem before 1.7. The problem is vehicles are too effective and/or their counter is too ineffective thus the reward far outweighs the risk of using them. A delay would be just that, a delay and it would still come down to which team could call in their vehicles first. To really fix this problem the reward vs lack of risk must be addressed. I am not trying to fix the interaction between tanks and infantry with this. I don't have a problem with that, except militia tanks are too good. I am trying to balance tanks vs tanks between the two teams. Though as a result of having tanks on both sides to fight one another, it would greatly reduce the amount of damage any tanks are doing to infantry. Tanks are effective now, as they should be. Some AV needs a little buff but not much. The reason that we didn't have this before 1.7 is that tanks were a sidenote with very little impact on matches. Now, they are a key part of combat and if your team can't keep tanks on the field, or get them out in the first place, there is a very good chance you will lose the match. That is what I want to make fair. This point still stands; A delay is just a delay and it will still come down to who can call their vehicles in first. The only thing that will change it is an effective counter infantry can use without it requiring 3+ people to actually pose a threat. Until then incoming vehicles will continue to be ravaged by whichever side gets their vehicles in first. CCP: Is it the most asinine way possible to do this? Yes. Then that's how we're doing it.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3409	Posted - 2014.01.06 03:19:00 - [17] - Quote What does this help? Not to mention the whole point of dropships (and somewhat LAVs) is to get somewhere faster than infantry can. Giving infantry a head start destroys the point We used to have a time machine
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 439	Posted - 2014.01.06 03:44:00 - [18] - Quote Ambush should not have tanks... that has been very clear to me for quite some time. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Agrios Endendros Single Serving Friends 74	Posted - 2014.01.06 04:19:00 - [19] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: What does this help? Not to mention the whole point of dropships (and somewhat LAVs) is to get somewhere faster than infantry can. Giving infantry a head start destroys the point The point is that sometimes most of the infantry, including pilots, aren't even spawned in on one side before the other has already spawned with enough time to land several vehicles. It's about keeping both teams equal instead of, "who ever is lucky enough to get spawned first wins" (At least when teams are equal matched, but that's another story.) 10 seconds or so is hardly a head start. Agrios Endendros Heavy Haruko Endendros AV Logi ~ Canti Endendros Pilot ~ Zero Endendros Support Logi
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 892	Posted - 2014.01.06 04:21:00 - [20] - Quote Honestly, I'd almost argue there should be a way to pre-spawn vehicles at the ground spawn. Which ties into the real desire, that nobody should be able to move at all until everyone is spawned into the match. People (and things) should be pre-spawned, before the game begins, so everyone starts on a fair timer. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate

Jason Pearson 3791	Posted - 2014.01.06 04:22:00 - [21] - Quote Disagree. It delays the inevitable, the spam will happen a little later rather than at the very start. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. You're a total git, Jason. - Kingbabar
Agrios Endendros Single Serving Friends 74	Posted - 2014.01.06 04:23:00 - [22] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Ambush should not have tanks... that has been very clear to me for quite some time. I think the tanks are fine, something just needs to be done to make the deployment fair. If enemy tanks always have friendly tanks to deal with, then the infantry gets left alone. Agrios Endendros Heavy Haruko Endendros AV Logi ~ Canti Endendros Pilot ~ Zero Endendros Support Logi
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 1025	Posted - 2014.01.06 04:23:00 - [23] - Quote I think instead of having a vehicle delay, it would be better to simply have a countdown to match start. You'll be able to spawn in but can't move or do anything until the match officially starts. Like Battlefield. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Agrios Endendros Single Serving Friends 74	Posted - 2014.01.06 04:26:00 - [24] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Disagree. It delays the inevitable, the spam will happen a little later rather than at the very start. This is not to "deal" with tank spam or eliminate it, so no it won't. What it ensures, is that both teams have the CHANCE to spam equally. Agrios Endendros Heavy Haruko Endendros AV Logi ~ Canti Endendros Pilot ~ Zero Endendros Support Logi
Agrios Endendros Single Serving Friends 74	Posted - 2014.01.06 04:28:00 - [25] - Quote Harpyja wrote: I think instead of having a vehicle delay, it would be better to simply have a countdown to match start. You'll be able to spawn in but can't move or do anything until the match officially starts. Like Battlefield. That works too. I thought the way I suggested allowed the cluster to disperse just a little and vehicle drivers to move aside to a good call in local. Your way still succeeds in keeping it fair, though, so that would be fine. Agrios Endendros Heavy Haruko Endendros AV Logi ~ Canti Endendros Pilot ~ Zero Endendros Support Logi
Eberk Baldek Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 0	Posted - 2014.01.06 04:42:00 - [26] - Quote Clearly some games are already lost by the time I get to spawn in, even when I spawn in at the very beginning with my anti-tank fit L4 Swarm Launcher. There's usually absolutely nothing to be done when you get swarmed by a bunch of tanks at the very beginning of the game except drop out, which is what I think everyone should do at this point (especially on a small map). Why lose 7 or 8 suits for no good reason at a camp site? It's pointless. There are still plenty of battles that aren't totally dominated by 5 invincible red tanks. I don't know what the solution is. Maybe it means tankers spawning with anti-tank gear along side a good sniper or two, just in case, so they can clear the field a bit before calling in their own tanks, if necessary. I think though that it's more likely that CCP still has a bit of work left to do on Scotty and match-making. Or, does CCP think that this sort of thing is fun. I think evenly distributed matches are fun, not pubstomps. Even when I'm on the winning side, it's just pathetic. Tankers take most of the kills and leave the scraps to the rest of us.
Ecub dunbar Death by Disassociation Legacy Rising 1	Posted - 2014.01.06 04:44:00 - [27] - Quote Does this apply to pc because dropships and lavs in the beginning of the match are crucial to get to objectives quickly. From a blueberry to a warrior, that's what everyone will be with enough training.
Agrios Endendros Single Serving Friends 74	Posted - 2014.01.06 04:49:00 - [28] - Quote Ecub dunbar wrote: Does this apply to pc because dropships and lavs in the beginning of the match are crucial to get to objectives quickly. PC has apparently got a lot more than this to worry about... Agrios Endendros Heavy Haruko Endendros AV Logi ~ Canti Endendros Pilot ~ Zero Endendros Support Logi
Ecub dunbar Death by Disassociation Legacy Rising 1	Posted - 2014.01.06 04:52:00 - [29] - Quote Agrios Endendros wrote: Ecub dunbar wrote: Does this apply to pc because dropships and lavs in the beginning of the match are crucial to get to objectives quickly. PC has apparently got a lot more than this to worry about... The Lag From a blueberry to a warrior, that's what everyone will be with enough training.
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 2016	Posted - 2014.01.06 05:19:00 - [30] - Quote Remove the Warbarge. The MCCs should be the "holds" for each team with a mutual Countdown Timer that backs directly into the match counter. This gives both teams and the server to get everyone in, squadded, properly fitted, and with a buffer for the deploy lag. Beer before Liquor, never sicker. Toothpaste before Orange Juice, you're dead.

Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 974	Posted - 2014.01.06 05:24:00 - [31] - Quote I think there should be a 30 second delay before you can spawn in anything but MLT/STD dropsuits. This delay would apply every time you die and try to respawn.
Agrios Endendros Single Serving Friends 74	Posted - 2014.01.06 06:01:00 - [32] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: Remove the Warbarge. The MCCs should be the "holds" for each team with a mutual Countdown Timer that backs directly into the match counter. This gives both teams and the server to get everyone in, squadded, properly fitted, and with a buffer for the deploy lag. I've thought this many times myself, but what of "redlined" teams? Do they just AFK in the MCC? I do think that possibly this could work: The red line still exists as it is with groudspawn intact. However; everyone MUST spawn in the MCC for the first spawn of the match, at which time the "hatch doors" of the MCC are still closed. After both teams have had time(15 seconds?) to spawn in the hatch opens and the match begins as we know it. Agrios Endendros Heavy Haruko Endendros AV Logi ~ Canti Endendros Pilot ~ Zero Endendros Support Logi
Agrios Endendros Single Serving Friends 74	Posted - 2014.01.06 06:04:00 - [33] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: I think there should be a 30 second delay before you can spawn in anything but MLT/STD dropsuits. This delay would apply every time you die and try to respawn. This might solve a lot of problems but many people would hate it and CCP would never do it because it makes people use higher tier gear less, which is the opposite of their goal to make you spend au on better gear than you are skilled for. Agrios Endendros Heavy Haruko Endendros AV Logi ~ Canti Endendros Pilot ~ Zero Endendros Support Logi


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