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Foundation Seldon
Gespenster Kompanie
340
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Posted - 2014.01.05 06:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Initially, going in to 1.7, I was all but convinced that the Saga would be the way to go when it comes to my LAV of choice. This was based on the power of AV as it was pre-1.7 and Shields having a natural resistance to the most effective types (AV Nades, Swarms, Proxies/Remotes). As time went on though and due to the quirks of where AV v. Vehicle Balance is right now, what's been more than often killing me in a match, and what the two LAVs are able to actually effectively fit - I've more or less gone to the Methana for my vehicle of choice when I'm looking to actually use one in an attack setting. Here's why ...
Sagas have to sacrifice utility for Tank, Methanas sacrifice nothing.
The base HP amount of the Methana is monstrous from before you even fit the thing, there's never as much of a need to fit a plate or extend the HP base of the vehicle because it's already at a level where it can pretty much react to any sort of AV and get out in time to avoid it. Despite there not being a need to do so though I like to use a setup that has a Scanner in the high, and Enhanced Armor Repair and Basic Armor Hardener in the lows. The extra 40% resist applied to the already very high base HP amount does a lot to increase my survivability against an installation or Tank that's found its self behind me and the most important thing of course is that my HP is continuing to repair itself as I run away from or engage a hostile vehicle, thus my already high base HP is extended even further while my resists are on as well.
Compare this to the Saga which, while having high Shield Regen, can't utilize said regen during battle, can't fit an armor repair without a pretty significant decrease in your shield base, needs to sacrifice useful high slots to increase its tank, and is much more prone to surprise burst damage than the Methana which has a small shield base and high armor pool. I can REACT to threats with a Methana and activate my hardeners to deal with said threats, when the Saga is hit with an installation however my Shields are all but gone, what would the point be in activating a 60% Shield Hardener when there are no more shields left to harden? So I can increase my Tank with extenders or boosters or hardeners but ultimately this only barely puts me on the level of a Methana which gets all the benefits of the base tank, a hardener, AND A SCANNER. There is no useful utility based low slot module that would make me ever think to sacrifice the tank on a Methana or use a Saga to use.
But Foundation, Shield Boosters effectively increase the Tank on a vehicle right? Well ...
Light Shield Boosters are bugged.
It's extremely annoying and it's a problem that CCP has acknowledged at least but it's certainly a factor that tips the scales even further to the side of the Methana. Currently Shield Boosters can be interrupted while regenerating and ... that makes them an extremely unreliable module to actually use in any situation. If a blaster tank is tagging my Saga as I activate a booster then the booster is rendered completely null. If a blaster tank is tagging my Methana I activate my hardeners and proceed to soak up a hilarious amount of damage.
The only effective counter to a LAV is a Tank, an Installation, or Proxy mines
The power of Shield Based vehicles compared to Armor Based vehicles in the current state of the game is that Shield Vehicles don't have an effective AV counterpart that really scares them. So a Saga, on paper at least, should be able to more effectively deal with infantry based AV ... except infantry based AV is a joke right now so the Methana can just as easily laugh in the face of a Swarmer (which were always a bigger threat to LAVs than Forges) and AV Nades just as well if not better than the Saga can.
So how do we fix this ... ?
+ Buff AV, no really. It needs to be in a place where I'm scared to simply run straight at an infantry in case he has an AV grenade and it needs to be in a place where Swarmers actually force me to retreat rather than laugh, jump in my small turret, and gun him down before he gets off his third volley. Ultimately this will end in a net buff to the Saga as it has a natural resistance to the relevant AV in the game.
+Increase base Shield pool of the Saga. Self explanatory really, this gives me more leeway to react to threats and offsets the lack of useful low slot modules that would otherwise incentive my use of the Methana instead. Something subtle like going from 1200 -> 1500 would go a long way in making the Saga a more useful LAV for purposes other than jihad jeeping.
Small Railgun Turrets are godlike on a LAV.
Seriously.
1.7 LAVs - Thoughts and Discussion
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Foundation Seldon
Gespenster Kompanie
343
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Posted - 2014.01.05 17:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:it's a good post. well thought out. I agree that methana is better than saga, although I still see a lot of saga's because on the BPO's.
I disagree with AV being ineffective though. I'm an AV player and 2 shots of my forge takes out any LAV that i've come across so far (except one that took 3 shots - I dont know the build on that one). 90% of the LAVs out there are taken down by 2 proto swarms and the really good LAVs take 3. If you have a build that can take more, post the build here and I'll test it. I can say for sure that it is not a common build if it takes more than 2 shots from me. So if I hit you once, and you're not out of site within 2.5 seconds, you're dead.
A good driver has always been able to survive through driving skill. but that's a fair game. dont nerf them because they have skill.
My issue is less with the Proto Swarms and more with the ineffective Militia/Standard and Advanced Swarms. Buffing AV in my eyes would involve raising the floor rather than the ceiling, putting lower tier Swarms nearer to the overall damage output of Proto Swarms. Maybe doing something along the lines of increasing the damage per individual swarm of the lower tier Swarms while higher tier swarms get less damage per swarm but are doing more damage overall thanks to the increased number they're firing instead.
As for my fit though, I'm running a Methana with an Enhanced Armor Repairer, Basic Armor Hardener, and Scanner. I'd love to hear how many volleys the thing can tank from someone whose specced into them.
1.7 LAVs - Thoughts and Discussion
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Foundation Seldon
Gespenster Kompanie
371
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Posted - 2014.01.09 11:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Repe Susi wrote:Bumping this just because I saw you mr. Foundation Seldon go 16/0 yesterday having fun with your Methana and railgun turret.  That LAV was flying around the map and we couldn't get you at all. Inspired by this, I made myself a LAV fit also and I have to say with little practice and a good gunner this can be good asset to the team.
Haha, I keep telling people that the small railgun is amazing. Glad I motivated someone to try to pick up the LAV as a serious thing on the battlefield, when you get used to orienting your turret *before* you engage someone then it becomes really easy to use one solo as well. The trick is to point it in the cardinal direction that you believe you will be facing the enemy when you switch to your turret, that way you're already facing them as soon as you start firing.
Saga v. Methana Balance
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Foundation Seldon
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
556
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Posted - 2014.03.15 14:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Quote:Sagas have to sacrifice utility for Tank, Methanas sacrifice nothing. This is called shield tanking.
Thanks for the clarification, this point had been totally lost on me clearly.
The problem is that they get absolutely nothing in return for switching to a shield tanking heavy setup. Why bother using a Saga if I can get all of its benefits on the Methana without any sort of sacrifice? It's not like a Gunnlogi v. Madrugar setup where the slot layout or PG/CPU distribution allows the Gunnlogi to get a significant lead in the eHP department, there's literally no reason to use the Saga over the Methana if you're serious about using the LAV as an attack platform and there's no useful low slot utility that would make the required use of a high slot extender/hardener worthwhile.
Saga v. Methana Balance
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