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Texs Red
DUST University Ivy League
112
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Posted - 2014.01.05 04:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Okay, ran some numbers today and did some play tests. Missile turrets are clearly the favored turret to use but why? Because they are the only small turret that isn't broken.
Small missile turret: Direct damage 455, splash 357.5 over 2.5 meters. Clip size 8 129% effective vs armor, 857 per hit (4,695.6 damage per clip) 69% effective vs shields, 314 per hit (2,778.6 damage per clip) Splash damage is almost equal to a direct hit from a railgun. Easy to hit infantry from an elevated position.
True damage: As listed but is +29% vs armor, -31% vs shields
Small railgun turret: Direct damage 377, clip size 24 63% effective vs armor, 237.5 per hit (6,604.3 but overheats at half clip so really is 3,300) 77% effective vs shields, 290 per hit (7,356 but overheats at half clip so really is 3,676) Almost impossible to hit infantry from an unstable platform.
Ture damage: 263.9 (+7% vs shields, -7% vs armor)
Small blaster turret: Direct damage 49.4, clip size 150 33% effective vs armor, 16 per hit (2,445 but overheats at half clip so really is 1,222) 44% effective vs shields, 21.7 per hit (2,714 but overheats at half clip so really is 1,357) Almost impossible to hit infantry from an unstable platform.
True damage: 19 (+8.5% vs shields, -8.5% vs armor)
What is up with these numbers? Your closest range turret (highest risk) has the poorest DPS while missiles are effective out to 250 meters (railguns only go 300) with splash damage almost equal to a direct railgun hit? Then you give railguns and blasters an overheat mechanic that effectively halves their clip size because the overheat duration is almost as long as reloading. The blaster has such poor DPS that a mass driver and flux grenades are more effective vs tanks/installations. Coupled with the fact that it is almost impossible to hit infantry with it on an unstable platform this turret is literally useless. Period.
The efficiency ratings on hybrid weapons are just messed up but missiles get their actual listed values (+30% vs armor, -30% vs shields). If you were worried about railguns and blasters being overpowered then lower their damage, don't leave these messed up efficiency ratings. You are |
Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4362
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Posted - 2014.01.05 05:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hate to rain on your parade, but I just ran several matches in a Gunnlogi equipped with two Small Railguns and watched my gunners cap infantry with one shot repeatedly, many times even getting headshots.
Also, at one point where I was reloading and my Damage Mod was on cooldown, my two gunners destroyed a Madrugar unassisted.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
9643
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Posted - 2014.01.05 05:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Hate to rain on your parade, but I just ran several matches in a Gunnlogi equipped with two Small Railguns and watched my gunners cap infantry with one shot repeatedly, many times even getting headshots.
Also, at one point where I was reloading and my Damage Mod was on cooldown, my two gunners destroyed a Madrugar unassisted. Small railguns and blasters are ok on tanks because it's very stable, unlike a dropship where everything you do moves the ship, including simply firing the gun.
It doesn't change that missiles do massive damage to everything with no real drawbacks, while blasters and rails have weird damage profiles, overheat, and require insane precision.
Assault Dropship Montage
Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
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Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
1012
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Posted - 2014.01.05 05:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Hate to rain on your parade, but I just ran several matches in a Gunnlogi equipped with two Small Railguns and watched my gunners cap infantry with one shot repeatedly, many times even getting headshots.
Also, at one point where I was reloading and my Damage Mod was on cooldown, my two gunners destroyed a Madrugar unassisted. Small railguns and blasters are ok on tanks because it's very stable, unlike a dropship where everything you do moves the ship, including simply firing the gun. It doesn't change that missiles do massive damage to everything with no real drawbacks, while blasters and rails have weird damage profiles, overheat, and require insane precision. I'm not sure if I was lucky or what but here's my story. Only once I have gunned from a dropship so far since 1.7 and it was with a railgun turret. I was able to directly hit and kill a sprinting scout within 50m three times (same player, felt sorry for him) during the minute I was aboard the DS before the game ended. I can say with certainty the dropship was hovering stable for one of the kills but was moving more or less for the other two. The poor guy went 9-3 I believe, made me feel a lot more sorry for him that all of his deaths were from being directly hit by a small railgun from a dropship.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Adelia Lafayette
DUST University Ivy League
536
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Posted - 2014.01.05 05:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
they do need some tweaking. Would love to see the blaster comparable to the current hmg but more range for usablity. Railgun is much better then the pre 1.7 one.. still needs some work though.
Assault dropship gets blown up....
(Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ "Kitten this I'm out"...
..."I'm back"
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Texs Red
DUST University Ivy League
112
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Posted - 2014.01.05 11:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
What I am talking about isn't just infantry, it's vehicles and installations. I mean look at the numbers I got from blasters, half a clip can't even take out the shields of an installation! And while managing the clip might work well on HAVs or LAVs on an incubus it's really hard not to overheat the railgun because the shots come out so fast plus everything else I have to worry about. |
daishi mk03
BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion
544
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Posted - 2014.01.05 11:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Your numbers are wrong.
To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin.
The Scriptures,Book of Missions
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Texs Red
DUST University Ivy League
112
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Posted - 2014.01.05 13:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Your numbers are wrong.
Care to elaborate on that? |
Serimos Haeraven
The Exemplars Top Men.
565
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Posted - 2014.01.05 13:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:daishi mk03 wrote:Your numbers are wrong. Care to elaborate on that? apparently not lol |
daishi mk03
BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion
546
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Posted - 2014.01.05 13:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Explanation post (will edit in and tell you why you are not more intelligent than swiss cheese)
To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin.
The Scriptures,Book of Missions
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daishi mk03
BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion
546
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Posted - 2014.01.05 13:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:Okay, ran some numbers today and did some play tests. Missile turrets are clearly the favored turret to use but why? Because they are the only small turret that isn't broken.
Small missile turret: Direct damage 455, splash 357.5 over 2.5 meters. Clip size 8 129% effective vs armor, 591.5 per hit (4,695.6 damage per clip) 69% effective vs shields, 314 per hit (2,778.6 damage per clip) Splash damage is almost equal to a direct hit from a railgun. Easy to hit infantry from an elevated position.
True damage: As listed but is +29% vs armor, -31% vs shields
Small railgun turret: Direct damage 377, clip size 24 63% effective vs armor, 237.5 per hit (6,604.3 but overheats at half clip so really is 3,300) 77% effective vs shields, 290 per hit (7,356 but overheats at half clip so really is 3,676) Almost impossible to hit infantry from an unstable platform.
Ture damage: 263.9 (+7% vs shields, -7% vs armor)
Small blaster turret: Direct damage 49.4, clip size 150 33% effective vs armor, 16 per hit (2,445 but overheats at half clip so really is 1,222) 44% effective vs shields, 21.7 per hit (2,714 but overheats at half clip so really is 1,357) Almost impossible to hit infantry from an unstable platform.
True damage: 19 (+8.5% vs shields, -8.5% vs armor)
What is up with these numbers? Your closest range turret (highest risk) has the poorest DPS while missiles are effective out to 250 meters (railguns only go 300) with splash damage almost equal to a direct railgun hit? Then you give railguns and blasters an overheat mechanic that effectively halves their clip size because the overheat duration is almost as long as reloading. The blaster has such poor DPS that a mass driver and flux grenades are more effective vs tanks/installations. Coupled with the fact that it is almost impossible to hit infantry with it on an unstable platform this turret is literally useless. Period.
The efficiency ratings on hybrid weapons are just messed up but missiles get their actual listed values (+30% vs armor, -30% vs shields). If you were worried about railguns and blasters being overpowered then lower their damage, don't leave these messed up efficiency ratings. You are
Just wanted to quote this wall of text of sh** lol
To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin.
The Scriptures,Book of Missions
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Texs Red
DUST University Ivy League
112
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Posted - 2014.01.05 13:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Explanation post (will edit in and tell you why you are not more intelligent than swiss cheese)
Edit: Since I'm not responsible for your existence I only give you some advices, why you are totally wrong.
I) Your calculations are wrong: e.g. Small Missile Turret 455*1,3 is NOT 857
II) Your tests are wrong: e.g. If you use Small Blasters against Infantry (OH MY GAWD DAISHI USES A HIGH ROF LOW DMG WEAPON AGAINST MOBILE TARGET AND NOT INSTALLATIONS!!!! WHY IS HE SO BETTER THAN ME) it does correctly 110% / 90% vs shield/armor
III) You are Dust University crap and part of the cancer flood of this forum e.g. no e.g. needed
protip: look for someone who did manage to make it through elementary school and let him do stuff like this
Fine, I made one mistake. You are missing the point though, I am not talking about infantry specifically. It's about its effectiveness on a dropship (an unstable firing platform) and against tanks/installations, where it is woefully ineffective. |
daishi mk03
BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion
546
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Posted - 2014.01.05 14:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
One mistake? No, your whole text is completely bullsh't and you know that.
I tell you what you did. You equipped one small turret after the other, shot an installation and watched the efficiency rating. That's all you did. Then you came to this forum, generalized your data for everything and stated that blasters and railguns are broken, while they are clearly not, because you are just to dumb to test things properly. Now you give me that dropship vs installation crap, which agains shows why swiss cheese is more intelligent.
Dropships can perfectly fine use railguns (vs infantry/tanks) and missiles (vs tanks/installations), because they need the range. Tanks can equip all three kinds of turrets, whatever they want to do. Small Blasters shine on LAVs for anti-infantry, still, LAVs can use all three turrets.
Thanks to people like you CCP crackheads read threads like this and destroy the game more and more. You want to complain that you can't cut your bread (=installation) with a spoon (=small blaster)? Please leave society.
To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin.
The Scriptures,Book of Missions
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
3992
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Posted - 2014.01.05 14:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Quote:Small Blasters shine on LAVs for anti-infantry, still, LAVs can use all three turrets.
The lack of protection on the LAV paired with it's extremely short range and being on par with small arms fire makes using the LAV an easy death trap for small blaster.
Granted the Ion Cannon can actually do something to keep people suppressed it's just that the range falloff is a bit drastic..no, very drastic for a weapon of it's class.
inb4 random scrub shouts get good. We typically do very well with small blaster (but I only give my gunners the Ion blasters because the others are crap) the main problem is that the gunner has 0% protection. Even the Dropship has a protective armor plate for its gunners as seen here. |
daishi mk03
BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion
546
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Posted - 2014.01.05 14:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Man, this is a completely different topic, though you are right. Heavy suit and a good driver are mandatory, but the gunner is far to unprotected. We need armor plates all around.
To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin.
The Scriptures,Book of Missions
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Arx Ardashir
Imperium Aeternum
333
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Posted - 2014.01.05 14:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Man, this is a completely different topic, though you are right. Heavy suit and a good driver are mandatory, but the gunner is far to unprotected. We need armor plates all around.
Not all around, I'd say, but maybe 120 degrees forward. That way the gunner can kill what he's shooting at, but flanks will still be effective against him.
Amarr HAV Speculation
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daishi mk03
BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion
546
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Posted - 2014.01.05 14:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Arx Ardashir wrote:Not all around, I'd say, but maybe 120 degrees forward. That way the gunner can kill what he's shooting at, but flanks will still be effective against him.
I would armor it 360 degree but let the upper third of the gunner stick out. LAVs are food for tanks, so I think it is reasonable to give them an edge over infantry. (especially since they are counting to the vehicle amount one can deploy) The back is important, since keeping the enemies behind you protects the driver. Also, the co-driver should be able to mount his main (light) gun, get +100% magazin size, use a special vehicle ammo counter and fire in an 120-180 angle forward. Right now it is too hard to use LAVs as anti-infantry vehicle.
To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin.
The Scriptures,Book of Missions
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Arx Ardashir
Imperium Aeternum
333
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Posted - 2014.01.05 15:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote: The back is important, since keeping the enemies behind you protects the driver. Yes, but the gunner should be facing the enemy, protecting both him and the driver.
I was talking about armor that's mounted on the turret, so it'd rotate with the gunner.
Amarr HAV Speculation
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daishi mk03
BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion
546
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Posted - 2014.01.05 15:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
Arx Ardashir wrote:daishi mk03 wrote: The back is important, since keeping the enemies behind you protects the driver. Yes, but the gunner should be facing the enemy, protecting both him and the driver. I was talking about armor that's mounted on the turret, so it'd rotate with the gunner.
I didn't understand it this way, yeah, you are correct. +1
To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin.
The Scriptures,Book of Missions
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Texs Red
DUST University Ivy League
112
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Posted - 2014.01.05 15:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:One mistake? No, your whole text is completely bullsh't and you know that. I tell you what you did. You equipped one small turret after the other, shot an installation and watched the efficiency rating. That's all you did. Then you came to this forum, generalized your data for everything and stated that blasters and railguns are broken, while they are clearly not, because you are just to dumb to test things properly. Now you give me that dropship vs installation crap, which agains shows why swiss cheese is more intelligent. Dropships can perfectly fine use railguns (vs infantry/tanks) and missiles (vs tanks/installations), because they need the range. Tanks can equip all three kinds of turrets, whatever they want to do. Small Blasters shine on LAVs for anti-infantry, still, LAVs can use all three turrets. Thanks to people like you CCP crackheads read threads like this and destroy the game more and more. You want to complain that you can't cut your bread (=installation) with a spoon (=small blaster)? Please leave society. Edit: Oh, and yeah, some people know how to play (Dropship with small railgun) http://youtu.be/atnP5DMr0nw?t=1m40sgreets to Dust Fiend
I can't honestly tell if you are trying to troll me or you really can't understand what I am trying to say. I never said railgun were not effective vs shield tanks nor that they were a failure at destroying installations, I fly an incubus with rails and I know how effective they are vs shield tanks. They struggle with armor tanks and do okay with installations but clearly you haven't used a railgun as your main turret on an ADS because it *sucks* at hitting infantry.
If you watch your own video you can clearly see that he switches from using a rail turret to a missile turret once he has taken out the tank and decides to go anti-infantry. In the video he flying an incubus, which gives a bonus to hybrid turrets, and decides to use a missile turret instead of a blaster, a hybrid turret, for anti-infantry. Why? Because the blaster turret is horrible on a dropship. A missile turret has superior ability to hit infantry due to having splash damage that deals almost as much damage as a railgun and has like double to triple the engagement range.
Also I agree about LAVs, to be honest they are the most poorly designed military vehicle I have ever seen. This is supposed to be the future but they leave all of the seats open, especially the gunner where he is only protected from fire coming from the front of the jeep. Look at modern military vehicles, the gunner sits mostly inside of the vehicle and has an armored plate on the front of the gun so he can only be hit in the shoulder and head region from the back or sides. Not his entire body from almost any angle like CCP made. |
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DrDoktor
PiZzA DuDeS
37
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Posted - 2014.01.05 15:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Give me a aiming reticle similar to ARs with dispersion for the blaster and I'll be happy. Maybe not to the same degree but you get the idea. That small dot isn't doing me any favors. Accurate but limiting.
Then again I'm no ace shot, but flying/stabilizing/and hoping that little soldier boy doesn't move an inch is skljfdsajhfajkldsalf...aggravating. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
1014
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Posted - 2014.01.05 16:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:III) You are Dust University crap and part of the cancer flood of this forum e.g. no e.g. needed Woah there dude.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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