DUST Search - MLT TANKS GETTING NERFED!!!

CLONE117 wrote:

looks like some1 thinks he has an aura of invincibility when wearing full proto^..

lets see...during the so called"murder taxi era"

i was never really ran over by any lavs. i was against the removal of the free starterfit lav though. in which proto bears like above^ wanted to run around in the middle of the road and NOT suffer the consequences. and so as they played around in the road like the stupid idiots they are.. in came the cars that ran them down. and so how this ends is that a bunch od crying unstable idiots came to the forums wanting the free mlt lav removed so they wouldnt have to worry about being ran over.

but that didnt work because then the logistics lavs started to shine and were thus nicknamed by the stupid full proto using n00bs. we discovered the word "murdertaxi".

and from several nerfs and buffs later. here we are right now.

wanting to nerf the WEAKEST AND HARDEST TO FIT OF ALL THE TANKS.

a zero sp invested tank isnt the deadliest threat to your beloved proto gear.

as even i dont complain about these at all. u know the tank i complain about... a std tank fitted with proto modules and turrets.

when i see an enemy mlt tank on the field i get my slightly better mlt tank out and use my "driving skills" to wreak havok on these "tank spammers" with ease.

hell i could easily av them solo with adv swarm and std av nades rather easily.

u know why? its because majority of these mlt tanks are driven by unskilled new players.or just unskilled.

i dont run out into the middle of a road like some ****** just to shoot at a mlt tank stand still, then get shot dead. (thats a stupid thing to do it makes no sense as to why every1does it anyways with their assault rifles!) then run on these forums and cry like a little baby. saying they r op.

i say tank vs tank is balanced and i can handle them while on foot with some careful tactics as well with ease.

so your going to nerf mlt tanks because that is the thing that killed u what? once or twice?. when that perma hardened gunnlogi or maddrugar over is obliterating every single thing on the map without a worry?

your either a tanker who has lost to many std tanks to mlt during a match. or some stupid player who wants to be invincible in full proto..


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BattleCry1791 PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 294	Posted - 2014.01.07 14:56:00 - [1] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Tanks still feel too strong in 1.7 and AV is not strong enough to stop them WeGÇÖll need to do something about MLT tanks. We will see to rebalance some PG/CPU for equipment and more. More details will come in a dev blog/forum post. Le Source Thank you, Saberwing!!!! :D <3333 I wonder if tanks feel too strong because tanks got a buff, price cut, and every form of AV got nerfed? Seriously how didn't see this coming CCP Because no one in CCP or none of the CPMs drive tanks/use AV load outs. They never have. It should be fairly obvious by the changes made to tanks since Chromosome that if they do, those people need to be reassigned/terminated since they haven't the slightest clue regarding tanks and AV. They've never really even come close. Either the AV is too powerful or the tanks are unkillable by anything other than a stationary turret or another tank. There has yet to be an inbetween. Can you get it right this time CCP? Historical evidence says that you won't. Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Time to do something different; listen to different people, come at it from a different direction. Here's my .02 ISK: MLT tanks: Everyone knows they are OP. So the question is, how far do you knock them down? To be completely honest, you can leave the armor and shield rating alone or take them down a few hundred. The overall issue is the slots and the guns. Take the slots down to 2 per whatever tank it is. Sica gets two highs, and Somas get two lows. Or make it one and one. And you absolutely have to gank the CPU/PG room on both. In fact, the MLT tanks are the wrong place to start now that I think about it. The place to start is in a conceptual battle: How many licks to the center of a lollipop? How many full hits (missiles for swarms and fogre hits) at proficiency 5 does it take to break a tank with a proto weapon? That's what should be discussed. A fair answer to that question is what will actually balance tanks and AV once and for all. And what kind of tank are we talking...just a basic STD tank with no extras? I think that would be the best way to go. Or...a basic tank with an active hardner specific to the tank type (Gunnloigi/Madrugar). And since I'm talking about tanks....If I may offer....get rid of the main blasters. Replace them with a shell style gun that hits harder than the rail, but is harder to aim, reloads a bit slower. Reason is two fold.: Eventually the MAVs will be released, I personally think that should be the anti infantry vehicle of choice. It would actually give tankers a reason to put secondary turrets on their tanks. The secondary turrets should be the anti infantry piece for tanks, meaning that tankers would actually have to run as crews. This also means that as CCP, you'd have to fix the 20M blasters. lolwut? Yeah I know I'm asking to much. So there's that.
BattleCry1791 PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 295	Posted - 2014.01.07 15:35:00 - [2] - Quote Griffter D'nan wrote: BattleCry1791 wrote: MLT tanks: Everyone knows they are OP. So the question is, how far do you knock them down? To be completely honest, you can leave the armor and shield rating alone or take them down a few hundred. The overall issue is the slots and the guns. Take the slots down to 2 per whatever tank it is. Sica gets two highs, and Somas get two lows. Or make it one and one. And you absolutely have to gank the CPU/PG room on both. I'm quite amazed that people keep forgetting about one important thing. Veh ballance. Yes, you could cripple MLT beyond rational point, but in that case even 3 ganked MLT tanks don't kill one STD tank. Dust is not only about infantry. I don't like idea of superpowerful tanks that require over 10M SP to gain practical immortality form MLT guys. Guy or gal in skilled Gunlogi should fear when multiple MLT tanks (2 or 3) operating on the battlefield just like protobear fear ppl with MLT starter fit working together (and yes, they can bring protobrar down). After all Dust is a multiplayer game, so should CCP encourage pll to fight solo? Pay VERY close attention here, because I'm only going to say this once. YOU.ARE.WRONG Here's why: Take everything you just said, and apply it to militia vs Proto Gear. Doesn't work. In fact, you'r logic goes against EVERYTHING the game is about. The game is totally about imbalance. It's about SP sinks. It's about proficiency to 5. Since there are no proto tanks, then the tanks have to be proto'd by SP sink...really no way around it. Same with AV. If Proto AV is designed to take down the biggest tanks with level 5 everything then they should be able to rip through MLT. Short of actual STD, ADV, and Proto tanks, there is no other solution but to bring back Prof 5 for Tank guns, so that way dedicated tankers will win most tank battles and survive most AV just the same way proto infantry can survive sub proto infantry. Anything else is just laughable.
BattleCry1791 PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 295	Posted - 2014.01.08 01:42:00 - [3] - Quote Griffter D'nan wrote: Well, are you dust player? Do you know EvE online? Do you know dust mechanics? First if you are player you already should know, that any protobear with lv. 5 everything can be killed with ease by 2-3 fresh MLT toons with 0 SP applied. So this is cornerstone of EvE and by extension Dust. There is no goodlike fit or skills that can't be bypassed by good teamwork. This should be applied to tanks as well. Second. EvE and Dust are "working in progress" game. So balancing something against things that come or not in far, far future is just silly. Game should be balanced now in "as it" state. Dev just rebalance things as new stuff will show up. Well they did this more than one-time (just look at new rifles and rang rebalance and many others). That's what is MMO's about - constant change, constant rebalance nothing there is eternal. Third. Your understanding of mechanics is very poor. Sill levels are about unlocking new stuff and giving little advantage over unskilled player. Giving player skills that heavily circumvent team play (tank/AV gank), planning, tactics, shooting skills is just wrong. Advantage that come from that should be about 10-15% max. This also apply to equipment. That means that Gunlogi after toe-to-toe battle with Sica (if pilots have equal SP skills of course) should have no more than 10% eHP. Yes, it's very laughable that you want ballance things that not exist, and create this elitist tank-club/protostompers again. You need to play more, try AV fits, MLT tanks and more. Maybe then you think about and find good arguments, because now you far from it. Wow. Just freaking wow. Just when I thought the mouse jokey crowd couldn't get any more obtuse. There's a lost of ways I could go with this. I could politely inform you just exactly what my Clan tag entails Dust history wise, who I am, and where I come from just to make it so's you understand that on this forum, you're the new guy and I'm not. However, this little bit right here: " Your understanding of mechanics is very poor. Sill levels are about unlocking new stuff and giving little advantage over unskilled player. Giving player skills that heavily circumvent team play (tank/AV gank), planning, tactics, shooting skills is just wrong. Advantage that come from that should be about 10-15% max. This also apply to equipment. That means that Gunlogi after toe-to-toe battle with Sica (if pilots have equal SP skills of course) should have no more than 10% eHP." Means you know ** ALL about this game. Seriously, you go beyond newb to n00b with that statement. I'll even grant you that math wise you may be right...but you know what, you aren't. Not even close. Not even in the same universe. I mean, you are a complete ******. Let's just run the math of militia assault rifle vs a proto AR with Prof 5. Militia AR: 34 HP/rd, Accuracy rating of 55.5 and a magazine of 48 rds Duvolle AR: 37.4 HP/rd, Accuraccy rating of 57.2, and a magazine of 60 rds. Now, on paper, you might be justified in thinking "not much of an increase. Here's where you're dead wrong. You have to factor in Prof 5 for assualt rifles, which guys that DON'T have Duvolles...don't freaking have. That's 15% increase in damage per rd. That puts a Duvolle over 43/rd damage. The other thing you have to factor in is that a guy carrying a Duvolle is running ADV gear at the least and more than likely full proto gear. So either he's tanked with something between 700-1200 EHP or is using complex damage mods, which the militia user ALSO DOESN'T have....just say they're running a "glass cannon" gallente assualt rig....Duvolle + 2 complex damage mods (17.5 incrase last time I checked) + Prof 5 = dead squishy militia or STD user. There is no "slight advantage" over "unskilled" players. With the damage mods and the Prof 5 (and let's not forget the Sharpshooter bonus which means more shots on target) you're looking at over 30% increase in damage over a Militia/Standard user. That's why higher SP toons can do well with Exiles and GEKs...they have a natural advantage over their lowered SP counterparts. There is a distinct, massive advantage to the proto user. He can either outlast the STD/ADV/MLT user or out DPS's him, or a combo of both depending on his rig. It's called proto stomping for a reason jack ass. A week a go I was on my 4th alt, a "test" subject for new weapons. He uses a Caldari medium suit with full points in shields and armor, runs Complex Shield extenders, a GEk, and AR Prof 4. I was owned like the washington generals to the globetrotter that was handling a carthum SR and full Amarr Assault proto gear. I could site up on him, get off a round or two and that's all it was. Straight owned by superior gear vs a 350 shield 150 armored medium fit. Caught him from behind more than once, he just turned around and floored me both times. The game is DESIGNED with HUGE imbalances. In fact if there's any one thing that has been a constant in DUST from the beta until know is the advantage that players with bigger SP have over low SP players. As you said, that's how MMO's (you mean RPG but whatever) work. Since this game is indeed an RPG first and a shooter second., it is imbalanced by design.
BattleCry1791 PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 298	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:30:00 - [4] - Quote Ya know, every time I run across some half wit English professor wanna be EvE Mouse jockey I always think to myself..."Wow, can these guys get any more dense? I mean seriously, this guy is so thick he has his own gravitational pull. There's no way they can all be this obtuse." And then another calculator watch wearing gaming hipster comes along up and proves me wrong. Open your books to page one chillun's cuz I'm about to take this little ** to school. Griffter D'nan wrote: There is a good chance that my toon is older than yours, have more SP, moreover Im probably higher on leaderboards than you. So I find that gibberish utterly funny. This whole "elitism" is just childish so give a brake. I just font say much on public, just because don't like kids with bad patronizing habits. I probably have alts with more SP than you. If you can break 18 mill you lemme know (and I've capped ONCE in the last two months). Shouldn't be hard if you've been around since the beginning. Oh, and you don't post seldom because you're a shy, unique snowflake, but because your likely from the Affirmation-Everyone's Special-Participation Trophy generation and can't handle the heat. Griffter D'nan wrote: That's why i put one condition - (if pilots have equal SP skills of course). Can you understand what you read? Yes, we discuss MLT tank nerf, so we compare them with caeteris paribus in mind (check on wikipedia what that means ). And this stats above just support my opinion. Thx. I got a better idea, instead of sitting around learning ** that no on cares about so you can throw it in their faces because no one's ever heard of it why don't you spend your parents hard earned money on some critical thinking classes. You'r "condition" is the DUST equivalent of zero on the Kelvin Scale, Santa Claus, Carly Rae Jepson's 2nd top 10 hit, or a CSI script that challenges the viewer; it doesn't exist in this reality. From an infantry standpoint there's been too much time and too many options for players that have been playing since the beta or just after LOLrelease. And the other thing here is that you completely missed the entire reason I wrote it, which was to explain the difference that we see in infantry and if tanking so to follow the same lines then there HAS to be the same built in imbalance. Proto players with 20 mill SP and 250K fits shouldn't have to fear being taken down by militia gear users and neither should tankers. That was the entire point of that, to show you that militia infantry users have little chance against Proto suits, MLT tanks shouldn't be able to win a straight knock down against a STD tank with a 12-16 mill SP sink (this is of course assuming that tanker weapon proficiency is brought back). As the skill tree stands now, it's too much a sink for a secondary role, or it's not enough of an advantage for tankers that have sunk the SP. Griffter D'nan wrote: Yes, I know that you just can't read. Second you was alone without sq support lol. If you don't know that already... squaddies can support you using own rifle or use needle, and repair tool. It's all about teamwork. And Im noobie, bro, you are so funny. You do realize that the majority of FPS players DO NOT squad up. They DON'T have mics, and couldn't spell tactics if you gave them "actics" as a clue. So I'd love to know where this "perfect" team of yours is because it sure as hell isn't on my side of the MCC. And for the record myself and three clanmates where in that match, they chose to run milita gear because it was FW. Which was again...NOT MY POINT. My point is that there are newer players...even a couple of months old that have sunk SP into the wrong places, whatever the reason, and have maxed out as far as they can with 10-6 mill that are simply fodder for proto stompers. If it that way for infantry (and if I haven't painstakingly made that abundantly clear so that even a bottom feeder like yourself has to understand it then there's little hope for mankind at this point) then so it should be for everything else. Griffter D'nan wrote: Yes, and I love that veh rebalance changed it. With that statement, you created a singularity of stupidity so strong, you bent light. And with that, I am done with you. While I'd love to come back and repeatedly point out all your fallacies and just plain moronic statements, I actually have stuff to do. For a minute I thought you were just a really ineffective troll, but based on your misplaced confidence in your laughable and ineffective posts lead me to conclude something even worse...that you actually believe the garbage you post. You are one of the things I despise most...the psuedo-intellectual. You may come off as intelligent, and you may have convinced yourself that you are, but in reality, all you are is an ineffective, non linear, freaking bore. So goodbye and good luck. Hugs and kisses, BattleCry1791 PS. Call your mother and apologize for being the huge disappointment that you are. They'd ban me, but I'm too funny and more importantly, I'm right.
BattleCry1791 PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 299	Posted - 2014.01.08 19:31:00 - [5] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: looks like some1 thinks he has an aura of invincibility when wearing full proto^.. lets see...during the so called"murder taxi era" i was never really ran over by any lavs. i was against the removal of the free starterfit lav though. in which proto bears like above^ wanted to run around in the middle of the road and NOT suffer the consequences. and so as they played around in the road like the stupid idiots they are.. in came the cars that ran them down. and so how this ends is that a bunch od crying unstable idiots came to the forums wanting the free mlt lav removed so they wouldnt have to worry about being ran over. but that didnt work because then the logistics lavs started to shine and were thus nicknamed by the stupid full proto using n00bs. we discovered the word "murdertaxi". and from several nerfs and buffs later. here we are right now. wanting to nerf the WEAKEST AND HARDEST TO FIT OF ALL THE TANKS. a zero sp invested tank isnt the deadliest threat to your beloved proto gear. as even i dont complain about these at all. u know the tank i complain about... a std tank fitted with proto modules and turrets. when i see an enemy mlt tank on the field i get my slightly better mlt tank out and use my "driving skills" to wreak havok on these "tank spammers" with ease. hell i could easily av them solo with adv swarm and std av nades rather easily. u know why? its because majority of these mlt tanks are driven by unskilled new players.or just unskilled. i dont run out into the middle of a road like some ****** just to shoot at a mlt tank stand still, then get shot dead. (thats a stupid thing to do it makes no sense as to why every1does it anyways with their assault rifles!) then run on these forums and cry like a little baby. saying they r op. i say tank vs tank is balanced and i can handle them while on foot with some careful tactics as well with ease. so your going to nerf mlt tanks because that is the thing that killed u what? once or twice?. when that perma hardened gunnlogi or maddrugar over is obliterating every single thing on the map without a worry? your either a tanker who has lost to many std tanks to mlt during a match. or some stupid player who wants to be invincible in full proto.. I was going to reply but then I realized you're with whatever is left of PRO and I figured "why bother?" Better my sister in a whorehouse than my brother play with those scrubs. Your clan tag alone makes anything you say completely invalid. If you were to say "It's noon and the sun is shining", I'd have to walk outside and check. PS, if you can't keep up, take notes. They'd ban me, but I'm too funny and more importantly, I'm right.