Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Emerald Bellerophon
Nenikekamen
64
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 08:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Oh dear god don't tell me you're seriously thinking of this:
CCP Remnant "IGÇÖm happy to say that soon the Scout class should be wholly rejuvenated (or at the very least, be in a much better place). The introduction of cloaking equipment and revamped bonuses should help the Scout find his rightful place in the battlefield hierarchy."
It's like when everyone in your favorite sitcom gets married. You know it's doomed from that point on.
Please PLEASE don't give us cloaking.
Considering your skill at isolating the logi role to logi suits, CCP, I hope you'll forgive me for not trusting you with cloaking abilities in any way, shape, or form.
With our (scouts'/former scouts') luck, cloaking will be intended for scout suits, but will actually work better on other suits entirely. Twenty bucks says cloaking works better for logi suits, or (god forbid) for HAVs, considering how the game is now.
There are so SO many ideas you could implement for scouts short of cloaking and/or busting the seams of the PS3 hardware you so unwisely tied your game's fate to... please FOR ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY consider other scanning changes first, both passive and active, as well as both improvements to scanning and dampening/jamming.
Edit: The Oxford comma. I guess I'm an elitist bastard. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
7383
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 08:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
I suspect it will be either horrendously overpowered or completely useless.
Level 7 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
|
Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
345
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 08:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Going along the lines of the suggestions people put forward for activate scanners - you could give an inherent CPU/PG bonus to scout suits (like 99% reduction) so that putting it on any other suit would gimp it horribly. This would be similar to how the modules work in EVE and would give scouts an advantage but then I have no idea what the cloaking module on infantry will do or how it will work....
|
Emerald Bellerophon
Nenikekamen
67
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 04:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Justicar Karnellia wrote:Going along the lines of the suggestions people put forward for active scanners - you could give an inherent CPU/PG bonus to scout suits (like 99% reduction) so that putting it on any other suit would gimp it horribly. This would be similar to how the modules work in EVE and would give scouts an advantage but then I have no idea what the cloaking module on infantry will do or how it will work....
Yes, effective role bonuses could be implemented for cloaking suits, but by the same measure, effective role bonuses could have been applied to all suits by now (e.g. logi is a weaker suit w/ a bonus for equipment), but they haven't, and I honestly don't trust the devs at this point with something that has so much potential to be game-breaking.
|
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
863
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 04:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
It will only be completely invisible when you're still, and you'll have to shut it off to fire your weapon. When moving, it'll be a shimmer. Probably enough to keep you from getting sniped, but not enough to protect you from a shotgunner at close range.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
|
Kierkegaard Soren
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
71
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 04:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Notice how the Dev also mentions skill bonuses too. I remember the executive producer stating that equipment is going to be re-balanced so that it's difficult to fit on suits that aren't a logi, and in a similar vain the cloak will prohibitive to fit on suits that aren't a scout, and probably won't work as effectively to boot.
CCP understands cloaking mechanics within a pvp framework quite well; they have them in EvE and for the most part are balanced and effective when used in there intended role.
I won't lie, though. Predator Heavy makes me giggle.
Dedicated Commando.
So it's a good job KDR doesn't bother me, really.
|
Thurak1
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
467
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 04:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
When i heard about cloaking the first thing i thought was finally a way to make my HMG very effective turn my suit into the ultimate ambush suit! |
Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2549
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 04:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think we should implement it in this one patch Remove it the next patch Probably for good Just to say "We did"
I am in agreement the OP. I feel like if Dust gets the cloak it will just leave a bad taste.
Do Not Feed The Imperfects. Feeding them may disrupt the natural setting.
|
Emerald Bellerophon
Nenikekamen
68
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 04:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kierkegaard Soren wrote:Notice how the Dev also mentions skill bonuses too. I remember the executive producer stating that equipment is going to be re-balanced so that it's difficult to fit on suits that aren't a logi, and in a similar vain the cloak will prohibitive to fit on suits that aren't a scout, and probably won't work as effectively to boot.
CCP understands cloaking mechanics within a pvp framework quite well; they have them in EvE and for the most part are balanced and effective when used in there intended role.
I won't lie, though. Predator Heavy makes me giggle.
In what way are the relevant PvP roles in EVE analogous enough to anything we have in DUST that we can just say they understand it?
EVE is an entirely different game. The roles for ships in EVE have very little to do with the roles for dropsuits in DUST. Because they have the former figured out doesn't mean squat for the latter.
This is still no reason to warrant trust.
|
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
784
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 05:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
I bet it will be totally unbalanced and not related to skills. In all likelihood it will be the new easymode of being able to walk anywhere anytime undetected. Less likely it will be broken from the get go with active scanning completely defeating it.
I don't even care if non scouts can effectively use it because I don't believe it will be a well balanced piece in the game.
Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
|
|
sira draco
Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 05:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Emerald Bellerophon wrote:Oh dear god don't tell me you're seriously thinking of this:
CCP Remnant "IGÇÖm happy to say that soon the Scout class should be wholly rejuvenated (or at the very least, be in a much better place). The introduction of cloaking equipment and revamped bonuses should help the Scout find his rightful place in the battlefield hierarchy."
It's like when everyone in your favorite sitcom gets married. You know it's doomed from that point on.
Please PLEASE don't give us cloaking.
Considering your skill at isolating the logi role to logi suits, CCP, I hope you'll forgive me for not trusting you with cloaking abilities in any way, shape, or form.
With our (scouts'/former scouts') luck, cloaking will be intended for scout suits, but will actually work better on other suits entirely. Twenty bucks says cloaking works better for logi suits, or (god forbid) for HAVs, considering how the game is now.
There are so SO many ideas you could implement for scouts short of cloaking and/or busting the seams of the PS3 hardware you so unwisely tied your game's fate to... please FOR ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY consider other scanning changes first, both passive and active, as well as both improvements to scanning and dampening/jamming.
Edit: The Oxford comma. I guess I'm an elitist bastard. I agree, I could care less about cloak, I've never liked cloak in videogames, I hated it in Crysis 2 and 3 those games forced you to use it
and the last thing we need is a proto logi with a rail rifle that can cloak |
Niuvo
NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention
967
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 05:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:I think we should implement it in this one patch Remove it the next patch Probably for good Just to say "We did"
I am in agreement the OP. I feel like if Dust gets the cloak it will just leave a bad taste. medium suits vs. scouts has a bad taste. With cloaking I'll be better prepared as an assassin, a lurker, a ghost. There needs to be skilled involved. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
6241
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 05:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Emerald Bellerophon wrote:Oh dear god don't tell me you're seriously thinking of this:
CCP Remnant "IGÇÖm happy to say that soon the Scout class should be wholly rejuvenated (or at the very least, be in a much better place). The introduction of cloaking equipment and revamped bonuses should help the Scout find his rightful place in the battlefield hierarchy."
It's like when everyone in your favorite sitcom gets married. You know it's doomed from that point on.
Please PLEASE don't give us cloaking.
Considering your skill at isolating the logi role to logi suits, CCP, I hope you'll forgive me for not trusting you with cloaking abilities in any way, shape, or form.
With our (scouts'/former scouts') luck, cloaking will be intended for scout suits, but will actually work better on other suits entirely. Twenty bucks says cloaking works better for logi suits, or (god forbid) for HAVs, considering how the game is now.
There are so SO many ideas you could implement for scouts short of cloaking and/or busting the seams of the PS3 hardware you so unwisely tied your game's fate to... please FOR ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY consider other scanning changes first, both passive and active, as well as both improvements to scanning and dampening/jamming.
Edit: The Oxford comma. I guess I'm an elitist bastard.
No, you're not an elitist bastard. Just another player who fears the unknown.
I'm a dedicated scout and I have been waiting for this since I first signed up and dedicated myself to the oh-so-under-appreciated role of scout. The scout suit has been in dire need of something like this for a damn long time and I'm not going to let a thread like this take it away from me and every other scout out there who has braved every nerf to the suit up to this point.
Also, WHY OH WHY DO YOU WANT ANOTHER SCOUT-RELATED FEATURE TO BE MARGINALIZED BY EVERY OTHER SUIT OUT THERE? It's bad enough that an assault and a logi can already run as fast as a scout and have much better endurance as a scout and be better at sniping and other things than a scout. Basically, anything a scout is specialized in is apparently done better in another suit. That makes absolutely no sense at all. Now you want cloaking to be better in a logi suit than in a scout suit?
Finally, have you even bothered to read the drawbacks given in this dev blog here? http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/03/equipment-is-your-friend/
Quote: The second item is a Cloaking Field. This sneaky bit of kit will not only make you (almost) invisible to other combatants, it will also blind turret AI targeting systems. It isnGÇÖt perfect invisibility, scanners will still pick you up if you havenGÇÖt masked your signal well enough, motion will disrupt the field to some extent and weapon fire will cause the field to shut down. This means it will take some skill to use to its maximum potential. This item is going to be a real game changer, particularly for Scout dropsuits which have been screaming out for stealth gear.
We have been screaming for this kind of thing since the dawn of Dust. It's coming whether you like it or not.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
|
Thurak1
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
467
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 06:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
To me its just annoying i walk around with a suit that isn't cheap by any means both SP and ISK wise and the idea that a scout might be able to cloak and walk up right behind me 100% undetected no matter what i do and kill me with a shotgun in 1 hit annoys me a great deal. Its annoying enough now when a scout is able to get the drop on me but being a heavy it happens and at leas ti generally have some warning and i am not often 1 shoted because i move. But this idea just makes me wonder. I mean if it comes into the BF wont it turn into a game of nearly all scouts because if you can cloak your a hunter if you can't your prey and who wants to be prey? |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
868
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 06:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
Thurak, a cloaky scout will probably be pretty limited on what they can actually do. And they won't be entirely undetectable if they're moving. You might miss one that's moving out of the corner of your eye, but you'll still see one you're looking straight at who isn't standing still.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
|
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
1067
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 06:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
the op needs to read the article, I think. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
6241
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 06:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:To me its just annoying i walk around with a suit that isn't cheap by any means both SP and ISK wise and the idea that a scout might be able to cloak and walk up right behind me 100% undetected no matter what i do and kill me with a shotgun in 1 hit annoys me a great deal. Its annoying enough now when a scout is able to get the drop on me but being a heavy it happens and at leas ti generally have some warning and i am not often 1 shoted because i move. But this idea just makes me wonder. I mean if it comes into the BF wont it turn into a game of nearly all scouts because if you can cloak your a hunter if you can't your prey and who wants to be prey?
You have to consider the fact that movement alone will cause fluctuations in the cloak which means that a scout will not be 100% undetectable especially if the cloaked user doesn't have a low-enough profile to evade the proto scanners. As far as I can tell from the math that me and many others have confirmed, there is only one suit in particular that will be able to evade all scanners and that is the Gallente Scout Gk.0 (prototype level suit). That's only one particular suit. Not just a suit class, but a particular tier of suit.
Now, ask yourself how many players out there are able to fit the Scout Gk.0? Just remember that a lot of players have mostly specced into popular suits like the Logi and Assault and plenty of heavies. But scouts? Probably a small amount in comparison.
So as long as you have a proto scanner in your sqaud or in your fitting, you're mostly good since the odds of running into a Scout Gk.0 with maxed out complex dampeners taking up all 4 low slots and a cloak is very slim. All other suits will still have a hard time evading proto scanners (especially that one very-powerful scanner).
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
|
Emerald Bellerophon
Nenikekamen
72
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 07:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Emerald Bellerophon wrote: There are so SO many ideas you could implement for scouts short of cloaking and/or busting the seams of the PS3 hardware you so unwisely tied your game's fate to... please FOR ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY consider other scanning changes first, both passive and active, as well as both improvements to scanning and dampening/jamming.
I'm a dedicated scout and I have been waiting for this since I first signed up and dedicated myself to the oh-so-under-appreciated role of scout. The scout suit has been in dire need of something like this for a damn long time and I'm not going to let a thread like this take it away from me and every other scout out there who has braved every nerf to the suit up to this point. Also, WHY OH WHY DO YOU WANT ANOTHER SCOUT-RELATED FEATURE TO BE MARGINALIZED BY EVERY OTHER SUIT OUT THERE? It's bad enough that an assault and a logi can already run as fast as a scout and have much better endurance as a scout and be better at sniping and other things than a scout. Basically, anything a scout is specialized in is apparently done better in another suit. That makes absolutely no sense at all. Now you want cloaking to be better in a logi suit than in a scout suit?
I don't *want* it to be marginalized. I just genuinely don't think it will be done well.
I've been dying to do something with a scout other than fit two cardiac stabilizers and run all over creation dropping gagued uplinks (and I do die a lot with that strategy) but we already had advantages which have been systematically squashed.
Back in Chromosome, I discovered passive scanning. I trained it up, and could see redberries close to the edge of my radar screen while dampened so they couldn't see me. I could even see which direction they were facing, and duck behind cover to remain unseen, then continue stalking.
THAT was stealth, and it was loads of fun, so it's where I put my skills for Uprising, but the devs broke passive scanning in that update for the first time, and I was left hoping for a respec like everyone else who felt screwed over.
Since then, it's been all bad for scouts, and I bemoan that like you, but there are safer ways to rejuvenate light suits.
At the moment, the Hunter scout is a joke. I played with it again recently: it's far more terrible than it was when I first tried it. Restore that functionality, and cloaking will be superfluous. |
Emerald Bellerophon
Nenikekamen
72
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 07:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Thurak1 wrote:To me its just annoying i walk around with a suit that isn't cheap by any means both SP and ISK wise and the idea that a scout might be able to cloak and walk up right behind me 100% undetected no matter what i do and kill me with a shotgun in 1 hit annoys me a great deal. Its annoying enough now when a scout is able to get the drop on me but being a heavy it happens and at leas ti generally have some warning and i am not often 1 shoted because i move. But this idea just makes me wonder. I mean if it comes into the BF wont it turn into a game of nearly all scouts because if you can cloak your a hunter if you can't your prey and who wants to be prey? You have to consider the fact that movement alone will cause fluctuations in the cloak which means that a scout will not be 100% undetectable especially if the cloaked user doesn't have a low-enough profile to evade the proto scanners. As far as I can tell from the math that me and many others have confirmed, there is only one suit in particular that will be able to evade all scanners and that is the Gallente Scout Gk.0 (prototype level suit). That's only one particular suit. Not just a suit class, but a particular tier of suit. Now, ask yourself how many players out there are able to fit the Scout Gk.0? Just remember that a lot of players have mostly specced into popular suits like the Logi and Assault and plenty of heavies. But scouts? Probably a small amount in comparison. So as long as you have a proto scanner in your sqaud or in your fitting, you're mostly good since the odds of running into a Scout Gk.0 with maxed out complex dampeners taking up all 4 low slots and a cloak is very slim. All other suits will still have a hard time evading proto scanners (especially that one very-powerful scanner).
So it'll be okay on day 1 of the update that gives us cloaks, but then proto scouts will be the new fotm which people train as soon as they can and in not too long the game is as broken as it ever was. Teams of newberries are slaughtered by squads of unseen cloaky scouts, this game continues to fail at plAyer retention, and everyone languishes as a result.
I hear a lot of excuses for cloaking, but no ideas about how it's really going to work well.
|
Spectre-M
The Generals General Tso's Alliance
178
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 07:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
Invisible snipers. Yay
Amarr Factional Warfare Loyalist
Minnmatar in Amarr Armor
I am a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing
|
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
6243
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 08:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
Emerald Bellerophon wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Thurak1 wrote:To me its just annoying i walk around with a suit that isn't cheap by any means both SP and ISK wise and the idea that a scout might be able to cloak and walk up right behind me 100% undetected no matter what i do and kill me with a shotgun in 1 hit annoys me a great deal. Its annoying enough now when a scout is able to get the drop on me but being a heavy it happens and at leas ti generally have some warning and i am not often 1 shoted because i move. But this idea just makes me wonder. I mean if it comes into the BF wont it turn into a game of nearly all scouts because if you can cloak your a hunter if you can't your prey and who wants to be prey? You have to consider the fact that movement alone will cause fluctuations in the cloak which means that a scout will not be 100% undetectable especially if the cloaked user doesn't have a low-enough profile to evade the proto scanners. As far as I can tell from the math that me and many others have confirmed, there is only one suit in particular that will be able to evade all scanners and that is the Gallente Scout Gk.0 (prototype level suit). That's only one particular suit. Not just a suit class, but a particular tier of suit. Now, ask yourself how many players out there are able to fit the Scout Gk.0? Just remember that a lot of players have mostly specced into popular suits like the Logi and Assault and plenty of heavies. But scouts? Probably a small amount in comparison. So as long as you have a proto scanner in your sqaud or in your fitting, you're mostly good since the odds of running into a Scout Gk.0 with maxed out complex dampeners taking up all 4 low slots and a cloak is very slim. All other suits will still have a hard time evading proto scanners (especially that one very-powerful scanner). So it'll be okay on day 1 of the update that gives us cloaks, but then proto scouts will be the new fotm which people train as soon as they can and in not too long the game is as broken as it ever was. Teams of newberries are slaughtered by squads of unseen cloaky scouts, this game continues to fail at plAyer retention, and everyone languishes as a result. I hear a lot of excuses for cloaking, but no ideas about how it's really going to work well.
Are you forgetting the amount of SP needed to train into the damn suit alone? A lot, really. You need well over 2million SP to train up the proto scout and that's just for the suit. On top of that, that's not including the basic light frame suit you have to train up which is nothing more than an SP sink. You'll need additional 1million+ SP for profile dampening. Then there are core skills like engineering and electronics which are critical to optimally fitting the scout and even then the suit is still mostly limited.
It's a huge investment and I know it because I had to go through it with both the Minmatar Scout and Gallente Scout.
Proto scouts won't be the FoTM if there are not that many around. Even if there are that many, the scout has practically given up on all tank just to sneak in. So a few stray bullets or even an accidental LAV run-over will end a cloaked user's day instantly especially considering that once uncloaked you'll have to wait for a cooldown in order to use the cloak again. During that cooldown, you are vulnerable.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
6243
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 08:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
Again, I don't see any problem with the cloak as long as there are drawbacks implemented. At the very least be thankful that it's an equipment item so that means you won't have to worry about invisible heavies popping out of nowhere.
Also, look at it this way. This could also help the AV folks as well.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |