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Emerald Bellerophon
Nenikekamen
64
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Posted - 2014.01.03 08:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Oh dear god don't tell me you're seriously thinking of this:
CCP Remnant "IGÇÖm happy to say that soon the Scout class should be wholly rejuvenated (or at the very least, be in a much better place). The introduction of cloaking equipment and revamped bonuses should help the Scout find his rightful place in the battlefield hierarchy."
It's like when everyone in your favorite sitcom gets married. You know it's doomed from that point on.
Please PLEASE don't give us cloaking.
Considering your skill at isolating the logi role to logi suits, CCP, I hope you'll forgive me for not trusting you with cloaking abilities in any way, shape, or form.
With our (scouts'/former scouts') luck, cloaking will be intended for scout suits, but will actually work better on other suits entirely. Twenty bucks says cloaking works better for logi suits, or (god forbid) for HAVs, considering how the game is now.
There are so SO many ideas you could implement for scouts short of cloaking and/or busting the seams of the PS3 hardware you so unwisely tied your game's fate to... please FOR ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY consider other scanning changes first, both passive and active, as well as both improvements to scanning and dampening/jamming.
Edit: The Oxford comma. I guess I'm an elitist bastard. |
Emerald Bellerophon
Nenikekamen
67
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Posted - 2014.01.04 04:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Justicar Karnellia wrote:Going along the lines of the suggestions people put forward for active scanners - you could give an inherent CPU/PG bonus to scout suits (like 99% reduction) so that putting it on any other suit would gimp it horribly. This would be similar to how the modules work in EVE and would give scouts an advantage but then I have no idea what the cloaking module on infantry will do or how it will work....
Yes, effective role bonuses could be implemented for cloaking suits, but by the same measure, effective role bonuses could have been applied to all suits by now (e.g. logi is a weaker suit w/ a bonus for equipment), but they haven't, and I honestly don't trust the devs at this point with something that has so much potential to be game-breaking.
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Emerald Bellerophon
Nenikekamen
68
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Posted - 2014.01.04 04:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kierkegaard Soren wrote:Notice how the Dev also mentions skill bonuses too. I remember the executive producer stating that equipment is going to be re-balanced so that it's difficult to fit on suits that aren't a logi, and in a similar vain the cloak will prohibitive to fit on suits that aren't a scout, and probably won't work as effectively to boot.
CCP understands cloaking mechanics within a pvp framework quite well; they have them in EvE and for the most part are balanced and effective when used in there intended role.
I won't lie, though. Predator Heavy makes me giggle.
In what way are the relevant PvP roles in EVE analogous enough to anything we have in DUST that we can just say they understand it?
EVE is an entirely different game. The roles for ships in EVE have very little to do with the roles for dropsuits in DUST. Because they have the former figured out doesn't mean squat for the latter.
This is still no reason to warrant trust.
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Emerald Bellerophon
Nenikekamen
72
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Posted - 2014.01.04 07:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Emerald Bellerophon wrote: There are so SO many ideas you could implement for scouts short of cloaking and/or busting the seams of the PS3 hardware you so unwisely tied your game's fate to... please FOR ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY consider other scanning changes first, both passive and active, as well as both improvements to scanning and dampening/jamming.
I'm a dedicated scout and I have been waiting for this since I first signed up and dedicated myself to the oh-so-under-appreciated role of scout. The scout suit has been in dire need of something like this for a damn long time and I'm not going to let a thread like this take it away from me and every other scout out there who has braved every nerf to the suit up to this point. Also, WHY OH WHY DO YOU WANT ANOTHER SCOUT-RELATED FEATURE TO BE MARGINALIZED BY EVERY OTHER SUIT OUT THERE? It's bad enough that an assault and a logi can already run as fast as a scout and have much better endurance as a scout and be better at sniping and other things than a scout. Basically, anything a scout is specialized in is apparently done better in another suit. That makes absolutely no sense at all. Now you want cloaking to be better in a logi suit than in a scout suit?
I don't *want* it to be marginalized. I just genuinely don't think it will be done well.
I've been dying to do something with a scout other than fit two cardiac stabilizers and run all over creation dropping gagued uplinks (and I do die a lot with that strategy) but we already had advantages which have been systematically squashed.
Back in Chromosome, I discovered passive scanning. I trained it up, and could see redberries close to the edge of my radar screen while dampened so they couldn't see me. I could even see which direction they were facing, and duck behind cover to remain unseen, then continue stalking.
THAT was stealth, and it was loads of fun, so it's where I put my skills for Uprising, but the devs broke passive scanning in that update for the first time, and I was left hoping for a respec like everyone else who felt screwed over.
Since then, it's been all bad for scouts, and I bemoan that like you, but there are safer ways to rejuvenate light suits.
At the moment, the Hunter scout is a joke. I played with it again recently: it's far more terrible than it was when I first tried it. Restore that functionality, and cloaking will be superfluous. |
Emerald Bellerophon
Nenikekamen
72
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Posted - 2014.01.04 07:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Thurak1 wrote:To me its just annoying i walk around with a suit that isn't cheap by any means both SP and ISK wise and the idea that a scout might be able to cloak and walk up right behind me 100% undetected no matter what i do and kill me with a shotgun in 1 hit annoys me a great deal. Its annoying enough now when a scout is able to get the drop on me but being a heavy it happens and at leas ti generally have some warning and i am not often 1 shoted because i move. But this idea just makes me wonder. I mean if it comes into the BF wont it turn into a game of nearly all scouts because if you can cloak your a hunter if you can't your prey and who wants to be prey? You have to consider the fact that movement alone will cause fluctuations in the cloak which means that a scout will not be 100% undetectable especially if the cloaked user doesn't have a low-enough profile to evade the proto scanners. As far as I can tell from the math that me and many others have confirmed, there is only one suit in particular that will be able to evade all scanners and that is the Gallente Scout Gk.0 (prototype level suit). That's only one particular suit. Not just a suit class, but a particular tier of suit. Now, ask yourself how many players out there are able to fit the Scout Gk.0? Just remember that a lot of players have mostly specced into popular suits like the Logi and Assault and plenty of heavies. But scouts? Probably a small amount in comparison. So as long as you have a proto scanner in your sqaud or in your fitting, you're mostly good since the odds of running into a Scout Gk.0 with maxed out complex dampeners taking up all 4 low slots and a cloak is very slim. All other suits will still have a hard time evading proto scanners (especially that one very-powerful scanner).
So it'll be okay on day 1 of the update that gives us cloaks, but then proto scouts will be the new fotm which people train as soon as they can and in not too long the game is as broken as it ever was. Teams of newberries are slaughtered by squads of unseen cloaky scouts, this game continues to fail at plAyer retention, and everyone languishes as a result.
I hear a lot of excuses for cloaking, but no ideas about how it's really going to work well.
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