DUST Search - The real problem about vehicles.

Severus Smith wrote:

Keri Starlight wrote:

Severus Smith wrote:

I disagree. The problem is that 1 player in a HAV is more effective than 1 player in a dropsuit.

What the...?

Tanks are meant to be more effective than soldiers... they are... tanks you know? Straight

Just like in a real battlefield, there needs to more people than vehicles. Vehicles need to be limited so that for every tank there are 3 people who can possibly take it out.

What's the purpose of a tank in your opinion? It is not a dropsuit. It's a high damage potential vehicle, a threat, a massive area denial instrument.

Tanks are supposed to be powerful, high damage, area denial instruments - as you describe. And that works perfectly and is a lot of fun in an unmetered battlefield (ala Planetside 2). If one side shows up with 20+ tanks the other side can call in 40+ infantry to counter. Tanks show up to mow down infantry, more infantry is called in, balance is restored and happy chaos ensues.

Except in DUST you can't call in more infantry. The balance isn't around numbers (like EVE) where if the one side shows up in 50 Battleships you can just blob them with 100 Cruisers and call it a day. DUST is only 16 vs 16. So when single players can make themselves vastly more effective by calling in a tank then the balance is thrown off.

There are several ways to fix this.

1. Limit how often tanks can be called in by a team so that when a tank is destroyed is it not immediately replaced. This also limits the amount of tanks on the field at one time.

2. Require multiple players to operate a tank for it to be effective. A driver and gunner. Two infantry are lost to gain one tank.

3. Make tanks not as powerful so that they are as effective as a dropsuit.

4. Remove match caps so that we can call in more people when needed (like Planetside 2).

All of these have problems.

1. Makes AVers compete for the right to call in a tank. So if 2+ AVers are on a team and only one of them can call in a tank then that screws the others.

2. Makes the guy who called in the tank have to front the entire bill for a 2 person vehicle. And they're basically stuck as the taxi driver to some other players fun (tank gunner).

3. This is stupid.

4. The way I think everyone envisioned DUST when they first heard about it but for some reason CCP chose the PS3 as their platform so it's not going to happen for at least 10 years, if ever.


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Keri Starlight 0uter.Heaven 2442	Posted - 2014.01.02 18:01:00 - [1] - Quote It's the vehicles to players ratio. 16 tanks out of 32 players is broken. It wasn't like that before, because tanks used to suck. Now they are fairly potent and a tank team will always win against an infantry team. Make this game at least 24 v 24 really quickly (unlikely) or just decrease the amount of HAV allowed per team until the first one is done. AV is not useless. Tanks are not exaggerated (MLT tanks actually are, you shouldn't have that power with 0 SP invested and a bunch of ISK), but you simply can't take out 8 tanks with 8 infantry players, if tanks require teamwork to be destroyed. You can't. This is the problem, the only one. 100% Achura "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
Keri Starlight 0uter.Heaven 2446	Posted - 2014.01.02 19:31:00 - [2] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: I disagree. The problem is that 1 player in a HAV is more effective than 1 player in a dropsuit. What the...? Tanks are meant to be more effective than soldiers... they are... tanks you know? Just like in a real battlefield, there needs to more people than vehicles. Vehicles need to be limited so that for every tank there are 3 people who can possibly take it out. What's the purpose of a tank in your opinion? It is not a dropsuit. It's a high damage potential vehicle, a threat, a massive area denial instrument. 100% Achura "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
Keri Starlight 0uter.Heaven 2446	Posted - 2014.01.02 19:43:00 - [3] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Keri Starlight wrote: Severus Smith wrote: I disagree. The problem is that 1 player in a HAV is more effective than 1 player in a dropsuit. What the...? Tanks are meant to be more effective than soldiers... they are... tanks you know? You fail at reading. He didn't say the problem is that vehicles are more effective than dropsuits, he said the problem is that vehicles are more effective than dropsuits for the number of players they use. I'm sorry, my mistake. Thanks for the clarification. 100% Achura "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
Keri Starlight 0uter.Heaven 2451	Posted - 2014.01.02 20:44:00 - [4] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: Keri Starlight wrote: Severus Smith wrote: I disagree. The problem is that 1 player in a HAV is more effective than 1 player in a dropsuit. What the...? Tanks are meant to be more effective than soldiers... they are... tanks you know? Just like in a real battlefield, there needs to more people than vehicles. Vehicles need to be limited so that for every tank there are 3 people who can possibly take it out. What's the purpose of a tank in your opinion? It is not a dropsuit. It's a high damage potential vehicle, a threat, a massive area denial instrument. Tanks are supposed to be powerful, high damage, area denial instruments - as you describe. And that works perfectly and is a lot of fun in an unmetered battlefield (ala Planetside 2). If one side shows up with 20+ tanks the other side can call in 40+ infantry to counter. Tanks show up to mow down infantry, more infantry is called in, balance is restored and happy chaos ensues. Except in DUST you can't call in more infantry. The balance isn't around numbers (like EVE) where if the one side shows up in 50 Battleships you can just blob them with 100 Cruisers and call it a day. DUST is only 16 vs 16. So when single players can make themselves vastly more effective by calling in a tank then the balance is thrown off. There are several ways to fix this. 1. Limit how often tanks can be called in by a team so that when a tank is destroyed is it not immediately replaced. This also limits the amount of tanks on the field at one time. 2. Require multiple players to operate a tank for it to be effective. A driver and gunner. Two infantry are lost to gain one tank. 3. Make tanks not as powerful so that they are as effective as a dropsuit. 4. Remove match caps so that we can call in more people when needed (like Planetside 2). All of these have problems. 1. Makes AVers compete for the right to call in a tank. So if 2+ AVers are on a team and only one of them can call in a tank then that screws the others. 2. Makes the guy who called in the tank have to front the entire bill for a 2 person vehicle. And they're basically stuck as the taxi driver to some other players fun (tank gunner). 3. This is stupid. 4. The way I think everyone envisioned DUST when they first heard about it but for some reason CCP chose the PS3 as their platform so it's not going to happen for at least 10 years, if ever. Good stuff. 100% Achura "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"