DUST Search - the QQ and av advice for anyone who cant get kills with low end av

Korvin Lomont wrote:

Mortedeamor wrote:

ok so ive been listening and reading the qq about tanks for about a month now..and this is what i have to say

av is not underpowered the users are being stupid

i killed 9 tanks in 1 skirm the other day witha baloch lav..and eon bpo heavy dau assault forge 1 dmg mod..at any given moment there were 4 -6 tanks on the field..they were working together and when one pulled back beyond the others for cover he died..gasps omg he died..do you mean he died from av? why yes of course why wouldnt he?

simple tank killing depending on fit

1 attack tank be it with swarms or forge drive up to him at 200m hop out and hit his ass
2 tank flicks hardeners up..land 1 more shot (this allows you to judge the current state of his hardeners)

3 drive off to pre laid nano resupply healing circle just a ways off..
4 wait wait wait (while we wait im running a methana 1 light enhanced repper 1 enhanced hardener 1 scanner no turret allows for safe transport of 2 avers)
now depending on the results of step 2..which if you recall was test tanks hardened state you do the following

5 MUSCLE THROUGH it with 1 hardener i prefer to just outright kill them as they may be running 2x-3 hardeners and cycleing ..is possible alone is easier with help
6 AMBUSH if u see that that extra shot does next to nothing..then the tanker has cut MULTIPLE HARDENERS that have a very known and calculable down time..pull off for example we are conducting step 5 and suddenly each shot starts doing nothing (what happened..tank has 2-3 hardeners..and instead of cutting 1 on ata time like he was before he flicked them all up because you almost wiped him out in this case you perform step 3 again and then move on to step 4and then to step 6)

now with swarms i did all this + added in laying re' prox traps i will never jihad it is rude and is something pathetically weak av players need to do also av over jihad would be preferred ina clone tight situation in competitive play.

and if you follow all this + for swarms have a teamate 2 proto swarmers with proto av nades and re's and proxies on 2 logi's can make mince meat of any lone tank.

USE LAVS THEY get you tot he tank they allow you to surprise him they get you the out of there...i was a tanker in chromosome i am 36 mill sp into infantry 1.2 mill sp into tanks..ive used the same tactics people used on me in chromosome with my av..vs tanks to great effect.

ive also tanker through failed avers trying to solo me on foot ..and also poorly organized av squads attempt at what i just described..and yet at the same time i personally have pulled of and watched skilled av i know of old use these simple techniques to slaughter tanks and then vehicle deny the enemy team.

so in short a message from Mortedeamor stop the QQ get good. Be a solid aver and you wont have a problem STOP running and gunning alone and get TACTICAL. also have a good day

All this may work on bad fitted stupid tankers not that those are rare these days.

And the thing with the LAV only works if the Tanker is stupid enough to let it come close. The tak pilots I have met normally prefere to shoot these down.

Also smart tankers retreat when they get hit while their hardeners are running and they can simply recall their tanks and call in a fresh one (assuming they don't runs hardeners).

If you meet a well fitted sdt HAV swarms will do literally nothing. You already need more than one clip of protoswarms with damage mods to bring down a militia HAV assuming the Pilot does not bother to use any modules.

And honestly I have never seen a HAV that goes down to swarms alone. But sure it is possible to solo unaware HAV pilots, I use RE's + packed AV nades and this work on most HAVs. This works better than the current AV options Infantry has and it works without to sacrify your anti infantry weapons (and no I don't refere to jihad LAVs)...

why use suits when ccp gave us nice shiny op as hell tanks that cost next to nothing

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Mortedeamor 1170	Posted - 2014.01.02 11:32:00 - [1] - Quote ok so ive been listening and reading the qq about tanks for about a month now..and this is what i have to say av is not underpowered the users are being stupid i killed 9 tanks in 1 skirm the other day witha baloch lav..and eon bpo heavy dau assault forge 1 dmg mod..at any given moment there were 4 -6 tanks on the field..they were working together and when one pulled back beyond the others for cover he died..gasps omg he died..do you mean he died from av? why yes of course why wouldnt he? simple tank killing depending on fit 1 attack tank be it with swarms or forge drive up to him at 200m hop out and hit his ass 2 tank flicks hardeners up..land 1 more shot (this allows you to judge the current state of his hardeners) 3 drive off to pre laid nano resupply healing circle just a ways off.. 4 wait wait wait (while we wait im running a methana 1 light enhanced repper 1 enhanced hardener 1 scanner no turret allows for safe transport of 2 avers) now depending on the results of step 2..which if you recall was test tanks hardened state you do the following 1 MUSCLE THROUGH it with 1 hardener i prefer to just outright kill them as they may be running 2x-3 hardeners and cycleing ..is possible alone is easier with help 2 AMBUSH if u see that that extra shot does next to nothing..then the tanker has cut MULTIPLE HARDENERS that have a very known and calculable down time now with swarms i did all this + added in laying re' prox traps i will never jihad it is rude and is something pathetically weak av players need to do also av over jihad would be preferred ina clone tight situation in competitive play. and if you follow all this + for swarms have a teamate 2 proto swarmers with proto av nades and re's and proxies on 2 logi's can make mince meat of any lone tank. USE LAVS THEY get you tot he tank they allow you to surprise him they get you the out of there...i was a tanker in chromosome i am 36 mill sp into infantry 1.2 mill sp into tanks..ive used the same tactics people used on me in chromosome with my av..vs tanks to great effect. ive also tanker through failed avers trying to solo me on foot ..and also poorly organized av squads attempt at what i just described..and yet at the same time i personally have pulled of and watched skilled av i know of old use these simple techniques to slaughter tanks and then vehicle deny the enemy team. so in short a message from Mortedeamor stop the QQ get good. Be a solid aver and you wont have a problem STOP running and gunning alone and get TACTICAL. also have a good day why use suits when ccp gave us nice shiny op as hell tanks that cost next to nothing
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5329	Posted - 2014.01.02 11:39:00 - [2] - Quote Smart call that's pretty much how I hunt tanks on foot as well. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Mortedeamor 1170	Posted - 2014.01.02 11:49:00 - [3] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Smart call that's pretty much how I hunt tanks on foot as well. seriously true true the qq is unjustified i just killed 12 somas with swarms and yesterday i killed 5 sica and 4 gunlogi's in the fit described here they need to get good why use suits when ccp gave us nice shiny op as hell tanks that cost next to nothing
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1548	Posted - 2014.01.02 11:53:00 - [4] - Quote You Write: and if you follow all this + for swarms have a teamate 2 proto swarmers with proto av nades and re's and proxies on 2 logi's can make mince meat of any lone tank. So, 2 logi suits With proto swarms, proto AV nades, RE's and mines! - which means that you're totally dependant on bad infantry on the enemy team or another 2 dudes to protect Your flanks. These are setups that normally will cost you 200 K isk and the lone tank may cost 70 K isk, and I'd rather be in a tank facing two logis With swarms rather than being a logi suit With swarms trying to Chase it Down..... So thats 2 suits With 4 AV weapons each, can take out a single tank. Yes that sounds about right. And don't get me wrong, I really don't have a take on all this AV/Tank debacle, I find it funny that some tankers come here and say how easy AV play is, it may be "balanced" but taking out a tank is far from easy on average. The biggest problem With tanks these days are the tank Squads roaming in Ambush, I oity those PBI's playing that mode.... http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
Mortedeamor 1170	Posted - 2014.01.02 11:55:00 - [5] - Quote KingBabar wrote: You Write: and if you follow all this + for swarms have a teamate 2 proto swarmers with proto av nades and re's and proxies on 2 logi's can make mince meat of any lone tank. So, 2 logi suits With proto swarms, proto AV nades, RE's and mines! - which means that you're totally dependant on bad infantry on the enemy team or another 2 dudes to protect Your flanks. These are setups that normally will cost you 200 K isk and the lone tank may cost 70 K isk, and I'd rather be in a tank facing two logis With swarms rather than being a logi suit With swarms trying to Chase it Down..... So thats 2 suits With 4 AV weapons each, can take out a single tank. Yes that sounds about right. And don't get me wrong, I really don't have a take on all this AV/Tank debacle, I find it funny that some tankers come here and say how easy AV play is, it may be "balanced" but taking out a tank is far from easy on average. The biggest problem With tanks these days are the tank Squads roaming in Ambush, I oity those PBI's playing that mode.... i was using packed av nades and cbr7's ona adv amar logi what i mean with this is that 2 fitss just like this should make mince meat MINCE MEAT of a tank tanks in ambush are different there is nothing u can do better to tank kill them time windows to small its to confined and tanks need small balancing changes av is fine i have no issue as tanks get better they only get marginally stronger what gets better is they're timing..which technically so does av..when you highly skilled in av you should be highly skilled in applying it the av of new eden is coddled why use suits when ccp gave us nice shiny op as hell tanks that cost next to nothing
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1774	Posted - 2014.01.02 12:07:00 - [6] - Quote My favorite tactic is to scare them away or scare them into activating hardeners early...then get to a high point and take them out when their hardeners wear off. Shield tanks are much easier to deal with because once their shields are down, their shield hardeners are worthless...but armor tanks are able to activate their hardeners before you can even break their shields. Either way, it's about 3 shots from a forge to kill most unhardened tanks, 4 if they have an extra plate or extender. I should probably learn how to use proximity mines to give a bit of an edge. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
Mortedeamor 1172	Posted - 2014.01.02 12:10:00 - [7] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: My favorite tactic is to scare them away or scare them into activating hardeners early...then get to a high point and take them out when their hardeners wear off. Shield tanks are much easier to deal with because once their shields are down, their shield hardeners are worthless...but armor tanks are able to activate their hardeners before you can even break their shields. Either way, it's about 3 shots from a forge to kill most unhardened tanks, 4 if they have an extra plate or extender. I should probably learn how to use proximity mines to give a bit of an edge. yeah i have been using my swarms vs armor just to test the validity and if you pull up in your methana lay the prox trap drive about 50 m behind it..and provoke the tanker u should have awesome results using your lav for cover almost always gets them to rush you..and then poof prox mines full swarm volley to the face and a arrrrggg what happened...laters u may even geta ******* hacker message i am getting very fond of those..i get more hacker accusations when i use my av than when i tank why use suits when ccp gave us nice shiny op as hell tanks that cost next to nothing
J0hlss0n Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 76	Posted - 2014.01.02 12:17:00 - [8] - Quote Im just curious if there were any "good" tankers in that game. I dont complain, Ive had those games (only using a forge, not skilled into grenades, swarms or so) too where Ive even solo'd 6 tanks, but that was all thanks to bad tanking/bad setup tanks, facing 3 or more good tankers plus them having good people on the ground is another thing... Also, calling AV'ers weak because they use whatever means they can to bring down a tank is just... well stupid... and makes me wonder what one is supposed to be calling tankers who goes into games in squads and call in 4-6 tanks against squads of randoms.... I actually find that worse than proto stomping...
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 336	Posted - 2014.01.02 12:22:00 - [9] - Quote Although I appreciate your tactics, you mention having teammates with proto AV - as soon as you mention this you're falling into the traditional fallacy that most tankers spout - "It should require teamwork to take down a tank"... this is a fallacy on so many levels. If this were EVE online that would be fine. In a 16 vs 16 engagement, if one asset on the opposing team forces you to deploy multiple assets to counter , that team now has the advantage. Keep in mind while your infantry AV is deployed, the enemy infantry have a numerical advantage as infantry AV are not effective against other infantry. Now, since they are no longer effective one on one vs other vehicles, people have figured out a tank counters a tank best, and a tank can also counter infantry... sooo tank spam (or a zero-sum game).
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 424	Posted - 2014.01.02 13:01:00 - [10] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: ok so ive been listening and reading the qq about tanks for about a month now..and this is what i have to say av is not underpowered the users are being stupid i killed 9 tanks in 1 skirm the other day witha baloch lav..and eon bpo heavy dau assault forge 1 dmg mod..at any given moment there were 4 -6 tanks on the field..they were working together and when one pulled back beyond the others for cover he died..gasps omg he died..do you mean he died from av? why yes of course why wouldnt he? simple tank killing depending on fit 1 attack tank be it with swarms or forge drive up to him at 200m hop out and hit his ass 2 tank flicks hardeners up..land 1 more shot (this allows you to judge the current state of his hardeners) 3 drive off to pre laid nano resupply healing circle just a ways off.. 4 wait wait wait (while we wait im running a methana 1 light enhanced repper 1 enhanced hardener 1 scanner no turret allows for safe transport of 2 avers) now depending on the results of step 2..which if you recall was test tanks hardened state you do the following 5 MUSCLE THROUGH it with 1 hardener i prefer to just outright kill them as they may be running 2x-3 hardeners and cycleing ..is possible alone is easier with help 6 AMBUSH if u see that that extra shot does next to nothing..then the tanker has cut MULTIPLE HARDENERS that have a very known and calculable down time..pull off for example we are conducting step 5 and suddenly each shot starts doing nothing (what happened..tank has 2-3 hardeners..and instead of cutting 1 on ata time like he was before he flicked them all up because you almost wiped him out in this case you perform step 3 again and then move on to step 4and then to step 6) now with swarms i did all this + added in laying re' prox traps i will never jihad it is rude and is something pathetically weak av players need to do also av over jihad would be preferred ina clone tight situation in competitive play. and if you follow all this + for swarms have a teamate 2 proto swarmers with proto av nades and re's and proxies on 2 logi's can make mince meat of any lone tank. USE LAVS THEY get you tot he tank they allow you to surprise him they get you the out of there...i was a tanker in chromosome i am 36 mill sp into infantry 1.2 mill sp into tanks..ive used the same tactics people used on me in chromosome with my av..vs tanks to great effect. ive also tanker through failed avers trying to solo me on foot ..and also poorly organized av squads attempt at what i just described..and yet at the same time i personally have pulled of and watched skilled av i know of old use these simple techniques to slaughter tanks and then vehicle deny the enemy team. so in short a message from Mortedeamor stop the QQ get good. Be a solid aver and you wont have a problem STOP running and gunning alone and get TACTICAL. also have a good day All this may work on bad fitted stupid tankers not that those are rare these days. And the thing with the LAV only works if the Tanker is stupid enough to let it come close. The tak pilots I have met normally prefere to shoot these down. Also smart tankers retreat when they get hit while their hardeners are running and they can simply recall their tanks and call in a fresh one (assuming they don't runs hardeners). If you meet a well fitted sdt HAV swarms will do literally nothing. You already need more than one clip of protoswarms with damage mods to bring down a militia HAV assuming the Pilot does not bother to use any modules. And honestly I have never seen a HAV that goes down to swarms alone. But sure it is possible to solo unaware HAV pilots, I use RE's + packed AV nades and this work on most HAVs. This works better than the current AV options Infantry has and it works without to sacrify your anti infantry weapons (and no I don't refere to jihad LAVs)...
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2098	Posted - 2014.01.02 14:11:00 - [11] - Quote OP I think you just confused 99% of the AV players in this game Intelligence is OP
Mortedeamor 1173	Posted - 2014.01.02 14:15:00 - [12] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: ok so ive been listening and reading the qq about tanks for about a month now..and this is what i have to say av is not underpowered the users are being stupid i killed 9 tanks in 1 skirm the other day witha baloch lav..and eon bpo heavy dau assault forge 1 dmg mod..at any given moment there were 4 -6 tanks on the field..they were working together and when one pulled back beyond the others for cover he died..gasps omg he died..do you mean he died from av? why yes of course why wouldnt he? simple tank killing depending on fit 1 attack tank be it with swarms or forge drive up to him at 200m hop out and hit his ass 2 tank flicks hardeners up..land 1 more shot (this allows you to judge the current state of his hardeners) 3 drive off to pre laid nano resupply healing circle just a ways off.. 4 wait wait wait (while we wait im running a methana 1 light enhanced repper 1 enhanced hardener 1 scanner no turret allows for safe transport of 2 avers) now depending on the results of step 2..which if you recall was test tanks hardened state you do the following 5 MUSCLE THROUGH it with 1 hardener i prefer to just outright kill them as they may be running 2x-3 hardeners and cycleing ..is possible alone is easier with help 6 AMBUSH if u see that that extra shot does next to nothing..then the tanker has cut MULTIPLE HARDENERS that have a very known and calculable down time..pull off for example we are conducting step 5 and suddenly each shot starts doing nothing (what happened..tank has 2-3 hardeners..and instead of cutting 1 on ata time like he was before he flicked them all up because you almost wiped him out in this case you perform step 3 again and then move on to step 4and then to step 6) now with swarms i did all this + added in laying re' prox traps i will never jihad it is rude and is something pathetically weak av players need to do also av over jihad would be preferred ina clone tight situation in competitive play. and if you follow all this + for swarms have a teamate 2 proto swarmers with proto av nades and re's and proxies on 2 logi's can make mince meat of any lone tank. USE LAVS THEY get you tot he tank they allow you to surprise him they get you the out of there...i was a tanker in chromosome i am 36 mill sp into infantry 1.2 mill sp into tanks..ive used the same tactics people used on me in chromosome with my av..vs tanks to great effect. ive also tanker through failed avers trying to solo me on foot ..and also poorly organized av squads attempt at what i just described..and yet at the same time i personally have pulled of and watched skilled av i know of old use these simple techniques to slaughter tanks and then vehicle deny the enemy team. so in short a message from Mortedeamor stop the QQ get good. Be a solid aver and you wont have a problem STOP running and gunning alone and get TACTICAL. also have a good day All this may work on bad fitted stupid tankers not that those are rare these days. And the thing with the LAV only works if the Tanker is stupid enough to let it come close. The tak pilots I have met normally prefere to shoot these down. Also smart tankers retreat when they get hit while their hardeners are running and they can simply recall their tanks and call in a fresh one (assuming they don't runs hardeners). If you meet a well fitted sdt HAV swarms will do literally nothing. You already need more than one clip of protoswarms with damage mods to bring down a militia HAV assuming the Pilot does not bother to use any modules. And honestly I have never seen a HAV that goes down to swarms alone. But sure it is possible to solo unaware HAV pilots, I use RE's + packed AV nades and this work on most HAVs. This works better than the current AV options Infantry has and it works without to sacrify your anti infantry weapons (and no I don't refere to jihad LAVs)... clearly you have no skills av teams are 100% viable of old 2-4 men can clean slate a field why use suits when ccp gave us nice shiny op as hell tanks that cost next to nothing
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1391	Posted - 2014.01.02 14:25:00 - [13] - Quote So Im on the new craters map, we have just capped C, the above ground small complex right of the facility. Now the Enemy instantly launches a counter attack. Now we have no access to vehicular support. So I now don't have time to set up this strategy you laid out, I can't call to my team to help because they are fending of the infantry So what now? I didn't have 5 mins before that tank came into prepare, so what do I do? I can't afford to wait till his hardners drop because he is shoving his way into the facility. You truly believe that's fair, that a crack team of infantry are gonna loose the point they just capped because ONE guy brought a tank? Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 558	Posted - 2014.01.02 14:35:00 - [14] - Quote Somebody give this man the 1.7 adaptation medal
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2019	Posted - 2014.01.02 14:58:00 - [15] - Quote The Forge Gun seems to be balanced. The Swarm Launcher is significantly underpowered compared to the Forge Gun. Swarms need a small buff. I would say 30 damage and 25 m of range to put it at 250 damage per missile (down from 330 in 1.6) and 200 m range (down from 400 m in 1.6). This would make Swarms viable when used in combinations with RE and Flux Grenades, or in teams. Right now Swarms are only good for kill stealing, or finishing off a tank that has just been hit HARD by something such as a full Prox + RE trap, as described by the OP. The only advantage to Swarms right now is that they have more range than a grenade, so they can be used to finish a Tank that is running for its life. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Sky Kage Immortal Guides 630	Posted - 2014.01.02 15:01:00 - [16] - Quote lol I was strolling around in my maddy and out of nowhere a squad of 6 adv/std swarm users just jumped me. took only about 6 seconds to make my ass toast. I die alot AND have fun... Who knew? a¦á_a¦á
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 665	Posted - 2014.01.02 15:10:00 - [17] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: ok so ive been listening and reading the qq about tanks for about a month now..and this is what i have to say av is not underpowered the users are being stupid..... ...i was a tanker in chromosome i am 36 mill sp into infantry 1.2 mill sp into tanks..ive used the same tactics people used on me in chromosome with my av..vs tanks to great effect. ive also tanker through failed avers trying to solo me on foot ..and also poorly organized av squads attempt at what i just described..and yet at the same time i personally have pulled of and watched skilled av i know of old use these simple techniques to slaughter tanks and then vehicle deny the enemy team. so in short a message from Mortedeamor stop the QQ get good. Be a solid aver and you wont have a problem STOP running and gunning alone and get TACTICAL. also have a good day Mortdemore, First I think you've got a workable tactic for taking on milita HAVs when the conditions are right. It's not that different to what I use and I've been having some modest success at tank hunting, certainly not the 9 tanks in one match you are claiming. I'm not doubting your claim btw, actually pretty impressed. However, let me draw your attention to the highlighted part of you comment. Dude...you've got about 37mil SP and I bet your partners have something in that neighborhood as well. I would expect a player of your experience, skills, and fitting options to be able to do well in just about any situation. Your also probably in the upper 5% of players with that level of SP. It's a different experience for most other folks on the field. The issue is that a guy with 500k SP right out of the academy...with no investment in SP and for less ISK than your AV set...can go 20/0 and it takes at least a couple veteran players out of the taking objectives and anti infantry game to deal with him. Wouldn't you say that you and your partners would have been more or less helpful to the team taking objectives and clearing out enemy strong points? Last point, as someone mentioned earlier...this works against militia HAVs. I've seen zero success against veteran tankers and about the same for dropships. Most dropship kills I've seen are when the pilot clips a structure and we continue to hammer him...so effectively the pilot gets a kill assist on himself. Have you had luck against those opponents? So...now I'm off to start working on skilling into logi suits, heavy suits, forges, and LAV skills to get into proper tank hunting...or do I just get handy with a militia rail tank? Seriously, thanks for putting up your tactics on tank hunting. I actually do think AV and vehicles are both workable...the tank vehicle spam is pretty ridiculous. I've stopped playing ambushes because of it.
Jake Bloodworth Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 260	Posted - 2014.01.02 15:30:00 - [18] - Quote I don't think any thinking person is taking issue with tanks needing a bit more thought to take out. I enjoy them being challenging. But, the things you are describing here are ridiculous. Since when did Dust have raid bosses? That is exactly what some of the good, skilled tankers are right now. Their ludicrous speed and multiple hardeners allow them to accomplish thing a heavily armored tank simply shouldn't do. Their toughness should cost them their speed. Right now they have everything. It would be like cup giving us heavies the speed of an assault suit while maintaining our massive hp buffers.
Scout Registry 235	Posted - 2014.01.02 16:28:00 - [19] - Quote Jake Bloodworth wrote: It would be like cup giving us heavies the speed of an assault suit while maintaining our massive hp buffers. ... GalLogi!? :P @ OP Here's another step-by-step process you may find interesting: * Squad up with your tanker pals. * Play a few matches of Ambush together. * Come back and tell us all about balance. There are intelligent tankers who recognize the problems with tanks and AV. Then there are tankers like Spkr and Ghosts Chance. Which group do you belong in, Mortedeamor?
Thumb Green Titans of Phoenix 615	Posted - 2014.01.02 16:29:00 - [20] - Quote You people can keep saying how easy it is to AV but it's all just talk. You can say anything you want but it's all meaningless unless you can prove it. KingBabar offered a chance to prove it but as of yet nobody has actually accepted his offer.... I wonder why. CCP: Is it the most asinine way possible to do this? Yes. Then that's how we're doing it.

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