I appreciate what you're trying to do, and you do explain quite clearly the zero-sum game that is caused by the tank/infantry AV imbalance (tanks kill other tanks better than infantry AV, so take out a tank)... and even though I would like to see ambush without vehicles, I think it wouldn't address the underlying problem of tanks in general, so wouldn't provide a complete solution to the problem.

Having said that - if they DID do it, then I imagine ambush would suddenly become very popular as people could use it as a haven from the tank spam that occurs in other game modes.

We have over 400 members with maybe 5 who are actually PC tankers, non of us not even our directors or CEO have control over what what our members run in pub matches. I don't know why marston brought up Nyan san they are just using the FoTM and everyone is guilty of it except those of us who refuse to use tanks because we prefer fighting with a gun in hand. So go ahead generalize our members but with as many tank users as STB has we also have at least 5 times that number who refuse to get in them.

Should ambush finally have decent spawnpoints before you can call it a viable gamemode?

Should AV be removed from skirmish?

*long moan and rant about how it effects my playstyle and its OP*

Answer = lolyes did you expect me to say no? lolno its a yes

The only way they should remain is with an expanded map and fortified turret installations.

I would certainly support a infantry only gamemode. Give people the options. How can it hurt? Don't take anything away, just add an infantry only ambush mode or something like that.

I agree with this. Removing them completely would be silly. Six tanks per team when there's only 16 mercs per side is a bit extreme. Especially in a game made based solely on killing.

I know. And I've been dedicated tanker/AV since the early bit of the second round of closed beta. The point still stands though - rather than removing tanks because they kill Infantry too easily, thereby ruining the game, they need to change the system and create a viable reason for tanks to exist other than...well, just wiping the floor with absolutely everything with a single large turret and a hardener or two. It's broken. Especially in ambush where the likelihood of good cooperative AV approaches 0%. And it might actually be less than that in pubs.

Remove dropships from Ambush and you'll give us pilots no where to go to get away from redline railgun campers, that's why dropship squads like ones i roll with go into Ambush, because only in there is it fair for tanks vs dropships (or any other vehicle) because they have no redline to hide behind.

And it's harder to take down dropships? I call complete bull **** on that one counting that we've lost 1 high and 1 low module now making our shield or armor even lower than it used to be. It doesn't take 3-4 shots from a railgun to take us out, it takes 1-2, believe me, I know this. Dropships help immensely if their on your own team in ambush as well, and forge guns are perfectly strong enough to cause us to flee from the situation, preventing our ability to stomp players.

Ambush should be infantry only.

Ambush should also have a spawn system that isn't entirely ridiculous.

Neither of these things are very likely to happen.

Because CCP.

I see ambush basically as TDM.

Vehicles have no place in TDM.

I thought this was obvious.

Remove dropships from Ambush and you'll give us pilots no where to go to get away from the broken mechanic of redline railgun campers, that's why dropship squads like ones i roll with go into Ambush, because only in there is it fair for tanks vs dropships (or any other vehicle) because they have no redline to hide behind.

And it's harder to take down dropships? I call complete bull **** on that one counting that we've lost 1 high and 1 low module now making our shield or armor even lower than it used to be. It doesn't take 3-4 shots from a railgun to take us out, it takes 1-2, believe me, I know this. Dropships help immensely if their on your own team in ambush as well, and forge guns are perfectly strong enough to cause us to flee from the situation, preventing our ability to stomp players.

Uber long OP

Make a separate game mode for vehicles only.
1 tank 1 try. If you die, that's if for the match.

Ambush without tanks would be sort of fun when not getting proto stomped.

That's not even what I was saying.... dear god. I was asserting that it's only fair in Ambush because WE BOTH don't have redlines to hide behind. And you think getting hit by a railgun from over 200M is uncommon? You really have no idea what the relationship between tanks and dropships is then, because dropships are hit from over 500M all of the time from redline camping tanks that are able to 1-2 shot them. People like you who are pure infantry shouldn't try to make false assumptions about vehicles, when they clearly know nothing about how they work on the field.

Tl;dr "lets deny a whole gamemode to a specific subset of people because I'm too much of a baby to actually skill into av".

Tanks & dropships aren't much if a problem - the mlt 80k tourist tanks are. Assault & breach forge guns still do awful things to vehicles.

no supply depots in tactical positions need to be added. maybe make them indestructable. maybe.

Here's the problem I have with this opinion, you say how tanks are spamming so bad, and yet also complain about dropships, when they could be the exact answer to those tanks giving your team grief. When i go into ambush with a squad of DS pilots, tanks no longer rule the field and we end up saving our entire team from being gang-banged by tanks, thanks to assault dropships.

STB suggesting that (gasp) tanks should not be in ambush?
good golly gosh what an upset

Ambush is admittedly broken.

I think the only vehicles allowed should be
Dropships
LAV

Tanks don't really have a viable spot because there is NO VIABLE COVER... and that is a real irritation.
The LAV could be harrassment, while the Dropships provide a relatively safe space to spawn in..

Tanks just don't have a viable role without some decent cover for infantry to "dance with them".

RDVs are from the warbarge, dumbass.

And I guess my thought is that the "infantry support" role should be where the MAVs shine (in addition to making HAVs think very hard in groups of 2+). Harder to kill than an LAV, but without the Large turret of the HAV.

And the Large turret of the HAV should be primarily for LAV/MAV/HAV removal, doing little damage and generally being more difficult to use against infantry.

Boom. Vehicles fixed.

That would be "highly mobile armor" for scouting / light infantry support - LAV.
Then "mobile armor" for infantry support / general purpose AV - MAV.
And "heavy armor" for AV / infantry suppression (not total wipe-the-floor destruction) - HAV.

Two LAVs would be fast enough to kill an MAV, two MAVs an HAV, and HAVs would be a serious threat to LAVs, or MAVs, while posing a clear defense of an area to infantry (if the smaller turrets are in use...as is not the case on 80+% of the tanks currently).

Unless you run a tank, Ambush is no fun, and that's a problem.

One way to solve the problem with Ambush today would be to take the OPs advice and remove vehicles from Ambush.

Another way would be to make infantry-bound AV a bit more effective against vehicles.

A third way would be to make vehicles more expensive.

I'm not sure which makes the most sense, but I'd like to see some experimentation with one or the other.

I love all the guys (falsely) accusing STB of tank spamming in the past.

Ambush isn't the problem. Vehicle vs. infantry balance is the problem. Tanks in ambush weren't a big problem before 1.7, because AV could effectively remove them, and the lack of cover in Ambush matches prevents them from diving for cover a lot of the time.

I could see a tighter vehicle limit on Ambush, but I wouldn't go for outright removal.

Um, yes and no. Maybe take em out for now until the tank thing is sorted out and then bring em back at a later time.

Agreed. The SVER players, if I recall, did not spam tanks back then. All they have was their gun and their skills.

Or, we can make a vehicle only Ambush.

Done.

I remember way back when I 1st got into Dust and Ambush/OMS were seperated game modes back then, thinking that Ambush was only for infantry and OMS was where you could face vehicals too. A couple of times I thought I'd joined the wrong game until it clicked lol, at that time though I hadn't seen any vehicals being called into Ambush untill I'd played a few games and was still pretty much a fresh faced newbie.

+1 in support of the OP.

I agree! Its meant to be a normal TDM gamemode and i think it should be infantry focused

At OP: The addition of all-vehicle and no-vehicle game modes would alleviate a great deal of pain.

I think there should be a delay of maybe 30 secs from match start that neither team can call in HAVs or Dropships. I think half the problem with Ambush right now, is the poor deploy and beginning of the match lag. When the opposing team has 4 tanks LANDED and rolling across the field before I could even deploy in, let alone call in a counter-vehicle, that can seal the match right there. None of the tankers on my team can call any in at that point and now it's my team of 16 infantry, 4 or so of whom are spec'ed into nothing but vehicles, versus 5 tanks and 2 dropships + Infantry.

If there were a delay, both teams would have an equal chance at being completely deployed and be required to take up strategic positions to call in vehicles. I understand that I likely gain this advantage as much as I am defeated by it, but that kind of game winning advantage should not be left to chance. This is of great importance in Ambush, but I think all game modes could benefit. This would also increase the importance and proper use of LAVs.

Ideally, Scotty would be able to identify the roles that players could fill on a team and ensure each team has a balanced number of potential tankers, and everything else for that matter, but that is wishful thinking.